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Message: [QUOTE="upperdeck, post: 4919569, member: 474"] 12th man is called all the time before a snap. And its called on both teams that way. so a team could have 20 guys on the field and a team is lined up to go and see it and false starts and there is no penalty? but its vague on how they call it.. sometimes they call it before the snap and sometimes they let it play out based on how the guy is going on off the field. had the snap been valid its a penalty. [/QUOTE]