So long, it's been good to know you | Syracusefan.com

So long, it's been good to know you

SWC75

SWC75

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By my count, we've now had 16 players leave early for pro ball:
(The spacing is intentional, to show the gap in years.)

1986: Pearl Washington, who was drafted in the 1st round, 13th overall




1991: Billy Owens, who was drafted in the 1st round, 3rd overall











2003: Carmelo Anthony, who was drafted in the 1st round, 3rd overall




2008: Donte Greene, who was drafted in the 1st round, 28th overall
2009: Jonny Flynn, who was drafted in the 1st round, 6th overall
Eric Devendorf and Paul Harris who were not drafted.
2010: Wes Johnson, who was drafted in the 1st round, 4th overall

2012: Dion Waiters, who was drafted in the 1st round, 4th overall
Fab Melo, who was drafted in the 1st round, 22nd overall
2013: Michael Carter-Williams, who was drafted in the 1st round, 11th overall
2014: Tyler Ennis, who was drafted in the 1st round, 18th overall
Jerami Grant, who was drafted in the 2nd round, 39th overall
2015: Chris McCullough, who was drafted in the 1st round, 29th overall
2016: Malachi Richardson, who was drafted in the 1st round, 22nd overall
2017: Tyler Lydon

It's hard to tell if these guys would have been better off staying, Certainly in the short term, they got a lot more money - which they may have needed. We don't know how much better they would have gotten here and how much better their draft position might have been in the next year or the one after that.

What I wonder is why 13 of the 16 have been in the last 9 years. Also, you hear sometimes of guys playing for other schools who consider the NBA draft but then decide to come back. It's been along time since that happened here, (Derrick Coleman? John Wallace? If one of our players says anything to suggest he might be thinking about it, He gone. In Sunday's paper, Tyler Lydon was quoted as saying: "I'm not answering any questions about next year right now. i'm just going to talk with my family and see what's best." When i read that, Woody Guthrie's voice started playing in my mind:

 
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I haven't seen the numbers for other programs but I would find it hard to believe that except for Kentucky, we have to have the most since 2012.
 
Things change. Times change.
It's nothing to wonder about - it's the way of the world, for everything.

Back in the day, the Draft was about ability. Which is why so many kids stayed 3-4 years.
Now, it's about *potential* - which generally diminishes the longer they stay in college, or at least, the perception of it does.

PS - FAB was most definitely NOT drafted 13th.

PPS - we don't know if/that Lydon did or did not consider the draft last year.
He did come back, at least once.
 
cliftonparksufan said:
I haven't seen the numbers for other programs but I would find it hard to believe that except for Kentucky, we have to have the most since 2012.
Expand...

Yeah, don't know about that.

upload_2017-3-21_12-38-59.png


That doesn't account for any players that come out after the NCAA is done.
 
SWC75 said:
By my count, we've now had 16 players leave early for pro ball:
(The spacing is intentional, to show the gap in years.)

1986: Pearl Washington, who was drafted in the 1st round, 13th overall




1991: Billy Owens, who was drafted in the 1st round, 3rd overall











2003: Carmelo Anthony, who was drafted in the 1st round, 3rd overall




2008: Donte Greene, who was drafted in the 1st round, 28th overall
2009: Jonny Flynn, who was drafted in the 1st round, 6th overall
Eric Devendorf and Paul Harris who were not drafted.
2010: Wes Johnson, who was drafted in the 1st round, 4th overall

2012: Dion Waiters, who was drafted in the 1st round, 4th overall
Fab Melo, who was drafted in the 1st round, 13th overall
2013: Michael Carter-Williams, who was drafted in the 1st round, 11th overall
2014: Tyler Ennis, who was drafted in the 1st round, 18th overall
Jerami Grant, who was drafted in the 2nd round, 39th overall
2015: Chris McCullough, who was drafted in the 1st round, 29th overall
2016: Malachi Richardson, who was drafted in the 1st round, 22nd overall
2017: Tyler Lydon

It's hard to tell if these guys would have been better off staying, Certainly in the short term, they got a lot more money - which they may have needed. We don't know how much better they would have gotten here and how much better their draft position might have been in the next year or the one after that.

What I wonder is why 13 of the 16 have been in the last 9 years. Also, you hear sometimes of guys playing for other schools who consider the NBA draft but then decide to come back. It's been along time since that happened here, (Derrick Coleman? John Wallace? If one of our players says anything to suggest he might be thinking about it, He gone. In Sunday's paper, Tyler Lydon was quoted as saying: "I'm not answering any questions about next year right now. i'm just going to talk with my family and see what's best." When i read that, Woody Guthrie's voice started playing in my mind:

Expand...
First glance at the title and I thought you were leaving the board. Don't scare us like that.
 
SWC75 said:
It's hard to tell if these guys would have been better off staying, Certainly in the short term, they got a lot more money - which they may have needed. We don't know how much better they would have gotten here and how much better their draft position might have been in the next year or the one after that.

What I wonder is why 13 of the 16 have been in the last 9 years. Also, you hear sometimes of guys playing for other schools who consider the NBA draft but then decide to come back. It's been along time since that happened here, (Derrick Coleman? John Wallace? If one of our players says anything to suggest he might be thinking about it, He gone. In Sunday's paper, Tyler Lydon was quoted as saying: "I'm not answering any questions about next year right now. i'm just going to talk with my family and see what's best." When i read that, Woody Guthrie's voice started playing in my mind:

Expand...

To answer the bolded:

1. Players simply didn't leave early nearly as often back in the old days. Basically the entire first round this year will be freshmen or the international equivalent. This trend holds true at basically every school and Syracuse is no different.
2. Tyler Lydon returned this year when he likely would have been a 1st rounder last year. We've had a lot of guys peak in terms of draft stock in recent years, so it makes sense that they haven't returned. Ennis would likely have been a 2nd round pick if he returned IMO; probably the same goes for a junior Lydon. MCW and Dion clearly made the right decisions for themselves as well. The only ones that I think really had a chance of improving their draft stocks by returning would be Grant and McCullough.
 
CFVT: Are those all early entries or all players drafted regardless of class?
 
It's funny that Jerami was so clearly a winner in his choice when he was the lowest draft choice of all these.

The outcome has so much to do with luck, and getting an opportunity to prove yourself.

Also, I've wondered whether SU players are more likely to leave earlier than other places, but my guess is probably not.
 
HoustonCuse said:
CFVT: Are those all early entries or all players drafted regardless of class?
Expand...

It didn't say. I can look for a different source though, and I think it's a valid question.
 
The NBA has changed. They used to want more developed skills and guys who could contribute right away. Now it's all based on potential and they will give 3 year guaranteed contracts for over $1 million per year to guys who aren't even close to being able to contribute and either go to the D league or sit on the bench. Most of the selections between 16-30 end up in the D league and are out of the NBA after their rookie contract expires.

I have no problem with any college kid leaving early IF they are taken in the 1st round and get the guaranteed contract for at least $3 million. The ones who leave without the knowledge they will be a 1st rounder IMO would be better off staying in school and developing their skills. In my view Grant made a huge mistake leaving to be 2nd rounder. Even today he is making half of what Ennis is getting paid when it was highly likely he would have gone 1st round the next year.
 
721Comstock said:
Things change. Times change.
It's nothing to wonder about - it's the way of the world, for everything.

Back in the day, the Draft was about ability. Which is why so many kids stayed 3-4 years.
Now, it's about *potential* - which generally diminishes the longer they stay in college, or at least, the perception of it does.

PS - FAB was most definitely NOT drafted 13th.

PPS - we don't know if/that Lydon did or did not consider the draft last year.
He did come back, at least once.
Expand...

You are correct. I double-checked and fixed it. I was using copy and paste from Pearl's line and forgot to change that one.
 
Melancer46 said:
To answer the bolded:

1. Players simply didn't leave early nearly as often back in the old days. Basically the entire first round this year will be freshmen or the international equivalent. This trend holds true at basically every school and Syracuse is no different.
2. Tyler Lydon returned this year when he likely would have been a 1st rounder last year. We've had a lot of guys peak in terms of draft stock in recent years, so it makes sense that they haven't returned. Ennis would likely have been a 2nd round pick if he returned IMO; probably the same goes for a junior Lydon. MCW and Dion clearly made the right decisions for themselves as well. The only ones that I think really had a chance of improving their draft stocks by returning would be Grant and McCullough.
Expand...


But did he say he was seriously considering it last year? It seems to me he shut the door on that early and attention turned to Malachi. Our guys don't seem to "test the waters". They just go.
 
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Have to wonder if this trend of SU players leaving early slows down once JB retires and the new coach starts recruiting a different type of player -- less long and lean that the NBA likes.

Just a thought.
 
SWC75 said:
But did he say he was seriously considering it last year? It seems to me he shut the door on that early and attention turned to Malachi.
Expand...

Why does it matter how quickly he decided to return? The fact is that he was a likely 1st round pick and he decided to come back.
 
Melancer46 said:
Why does it matter how quickly he decided to return? The fact is that he was a likely 1st round pick and he decided to come back.
Expand...


It just seemed to me that he wasn't considering it yet, even if he might have been a first rounder. Obviously "seemed to me" doesn't mean much.
 
cuseguy said:
Have to wonder if this trend of SU players leaving early slows down once JB retires and the new coach starts recruiting a different type of player -- less long and lean that the NBA likes.

Just a thought.
Expand...


Jim Lersch, on "Bud and the Manchild" felt that in the last decade we've been recruiting a better class of players that the NBA was more interested in than before that. I really don't see it.
 
SWC75 said:
Jim Lersch, on "Bud and the Manchild" felt that in the last decade we've been recruiting a better class of players that the NBA was more interested in than before that. I really don't see it.
Expand...

Not sure about that either. And haven't really looked at it closely enough to see a difference over the years.

We've had two Final 4s in the last five years, but seems we missed our shot at another NC since 2008.
 
HOFCeluck said:
Staying in school longer doesn't improve your drat stock. It just doesn't work that way anymore.
Expand...

Damian Lillard and Buddy Hield disagree. If you are good, the NBA will find you.
 
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