So nice of Aaron Harrison

[FortyFourCT]

What rule exists that forces kids to go to college?

Exactly.

If Tyler Ennis attended University of Maine would he be leaving early for the draft? Of course not. One of thereasons he has declared and is likely a top 20 pick is because of Syracuse University. The coaches, the infrastructure, the conference, the TV time, etc. There are a dozen kids across the the country as good as Tyler that don't get the press.

Nobody makes them go to college and if they don't see the value of a free education, that is their problem turning down an opportunity. They are not special cause they can play hoops. I said it before on this board and I'll say it again: is it worth a few bucks which most of these kids lose in 5-10-15 (60% of draftees are broke in 5 years, that percentage increases once you hit 10 and 15 years) years in exchange for an education that lasts a life time? For a small percentage, yes. Those are the ones who stick for 5+ years in the league. Chances are slim.

 

[SWC75]

What rule exists that forces kids to go to college?

Where else are they going to play until the meet the age requirement? How many can go to Europe like Jennings did?

 

[SWC75]

Exactly.

If Tyler Ennis attended University of Maine would he be leaving early for the draft? Of course not. One of thereasons he has declared and is likely a top 20 pick is because of Syracuse University. The coaches, the infrastructure, the conference, the TV time, etc. There are a dozen kids across the the country as good as Tyler that don't get the press.

Nobody makes them go to college and if they don't see the value of a free education, that is their problem turning down an opportunity. They are not special cause they can play hoops. I said it before on this board and I'll say it again: is it worth a few bucks which most of these kids lose in 5-10-15 (60% of draftees are broke in 5 years, that percentage increases once you hit 10 and 15 years) years in exchange for an education that lasts a life time? For a small percentage, yes. Those are the ones who stick for 5+ years in the league. Chances are slim.

But are they in college for the education?

 

[orangenirvana]

Where else are they going to play until the meet the age requirement? How many can go to Europe like Jennings did?

They can do whatever they want. Playing overseas is a wonderful opportunity. D-League. Hanging out in mom's basement. They aren't forced to go to college.

 

[SWC75]

They can do whatever they want. Playing overseas is a wonderful opportunity. D-League. Hanging out in mom's basement. They aren't forced to go to college.

And how many players are getting drafted in the first round from those sources? College is obviously the primary showcase and launchign pad for an NBA career, even for players who have no real academic goals.

"Hanging out in mom's basement"?!?

 

[NKR1978]

They can do whatever they want. Playing overseas is a wonderful opportunity. D-League. Hanging out in mom's basement. They aren't forced to go to college.

They aren't forced, but they are being heavily recruited. No one is forcing the coaches to recruit these high level kids who may or may not believe that their skills have monetary value beyond the scholarship.

I love what the Northwestern football players are doing. If it comes to it I hope our basketball and football players choose to unionize. I also love seeing the handwringing of people who think that the athletes get enough as it is. Seeing the way so many fans turn against players when they go through a bad stretch on the field or court or choose to put themselves over the happiness of their fans puts me even more on the side of the players.

The NCAA and its member institutions, including Syracuse, are such hypocrites when it comes to this BS notion of the student athlete. It's fun watching it start to burn.

 

[tbonezone]

this whole union deal won't ever get college kids paid imo. it might possibly lead to better medical insurance coverage and perhaps some greater transfer leniency. offset of course by said players now paying union dues and income taxes .

 

[orangenirvana]

And how many players are getting drafted in the first round from those sources? College is obviously the primary showcase and launchign pad for an NBA career, even for players who have no real academic goals.

"Hanging out in mom's basement"?!?

Okay, then what's the problem? You say kids are forced to go to college. I pointed out that they're not forced to go to college. Now you're saying well, they're not forced, but that's the avenue that's most advantageous for them. Ok, what's your argument? Sheesh.

 

[orangenirvana]

The NCAA and its member institutions, including Syracuse, are such hypocrites when it comes to this BS notion of the student athlete. It's fun watching it start to burn.

And yet here you are posting on a college team message board.

 

[two3zone]

They're both 6'5 guards who are fairly athletic and have shot well in the tournament-Wonder if they move ahead of Ennis

I asked the same question in another post, couple people thought maybe, others said no way. I'm still on the fence but if I was a GM I'd take both over him.

 

[SWC75]

Okay, then what's the problem? You say kids are forced to go to college. I pointed out that they're not forced to go to college. Now you're saying well, they're not forced, but that's the avenue that's most advantageous for them. Ok, what's your argument? Sheesh.

The adults have paved the road to the NBA through college and that's why they are there. To argue that their scholarships are of monetary value to them when that's not the reason they are there is silly.

 

[billsin01]

His game winner earned his coaches and athletic director $329,166. Nice to know he can't see a dime. Thank God the NCAA protects amateurism in college sports with its $10.8B television deal for the tournament.

http://deadspin.com/aaron-harrisons-game-winner-made-329-166-for-his-coac-1555196820

I think in 2010 or 2011 there were some rumors that at least one Final Four team was going to refuse to play. I don't think that would be fair to the fans who spent the money to travel to Dallas, but it would be immensely enjoyable to see all four teams figure out a way to gather before the games start and invite the media to watch them sell their autographs to fans. What would the NCAA do then?

I don't really understand why people have such a problem with all of this.

I mean, I understand it to the extent that yes, amateurism is completely ridiculous notion and that the NCAA has a bunch of absurd rules. I'll grant that.

But I have no idea why people want the 'pay structure' to change.

Do we not want coaches and ADs incentivized for successful programs and teams? Why is that a problem. They are hired professionals who also create a lot of revenue. Good for them.

As for the players -- I suppose a guy like Johnny Manziel gets 'screwed' but it's not really that simple. Let's face it, in this context getting screwed means: going to school for free and, if you so choose, doing the bare minimum and still graduating with a ton of connections through boosters, getting your choice of hot 20-year-old girls for four or five years, potentially getting a grad degree (if you want to put in the effort), getting a ton of free gear and apparel, having everyone around you tell you how great you are b/c you can throw a football really far, getting into a school that in many cases your academic record didn't qualify you for admission ... on and on. The point is, this isn't 'indentured servitude' in any way, shape or form and it's intellectually absurd that people make that argument.

But even if you choose to buy into 'indentured servitude' garbage, how in the world do you propose to make the system more fair? A stipend is ridiculous, IMO, b/c for every Manziel there are a ton of guys who don't individually generate any money for the university so it's still unfair to the star players. A free agency system would be fine by me but it would probably essentially make athletics completely non-viable for the majority of schools. Allowing guys to hawk their own jerseys and autographs, etc., has as much downside as not allowing them to do it.

I don't know, I tend to think this issue is much ado about nothing.

 

[billsin01]

They aren't forced, but they are being heavily recruited. No one is forcing the coaches to recruit these high level kids who may or may not believe that their skills have monetary value beyond the scholarship.

I love what the Northwestern football players are doing. If it comes to it I hope our basketball and football players choose to unionize. I also love seeing the handwringing of people who think that the athletes get enough as it is. Seeing the way so many fans turn against players when they go through a bad stretch on the field or court or choose to put themselves over the happiness of their fans puts me even more on the side of the players.

The NCAA and its member institutions, including Syracuse, are such hypocrites when it comes to this BS notion of the student athlete. It's fun watching it start to burn.

The NCAA is a bunch of hypocrites, I agree. But how do you decide who's worth more than their scholarship? And only they get paid? And if we want to talk about hypocracy then let's start with players needing to actually qualify academically for these institutions. The players are constantly taken advantage of, yet half of them might have trouble getting into the local junior college let alone Syracuse or Duke or Northwestern. People seem to foget that.

 

[NKR1978]

I don't really understand why people have such a problem with all of this.

I mean, I understand it to the extent that yes, amateurism is completely ridiculous notion and that the NCAA has a bunch of absurd rules. I'll grant that.

But I have no idea why people want the 'pay structure' to change.

Do we not want coaches and ADs incentivized for successful programs and teams? Why is that a problem. They are hired professionals who also create a lot of revenue. Good for them.

As for the players -- I suppose a guy like Johnny Manziel gets 'screwed' but it's not really that simple. Let's face it, in this context getting screwed means: going to school for free and, if you so choose, doing the bare minimum and still graduating with a ton of connections through boosters, getting your choice of hot 20-year-old girls for four or five years, potentially getting a grad degree (if you want to put in the effort), getting a ton of free gear and apparel, having everyone around you tell you how great you are b/c you can throw a football really far, getting into a school that in many cases your academic record didn't qualify you for admission ... on and on. The point is, this isn't 'indentured servitude' in any way, shape or form and it's intellectually absurd that people make that argument.

But even if you choose to buy into 'indentured servitude' garbage, how in the world do you propose to make the system more fair? A stipend is ridiculous, IMO, b/c for every Manziel there are a ton of guys who don't individually generate any money for the university so it's still unfair to the star players. A free agency system would be fine by me but it would probably essentially make athletics completely non-viable for the majority of schools. Allowing guys to hawk their own jerseys and autographs, etc., has as much downside as not allowing them to do it.

I don't know, I tend to think this issue is much ado about nothing.

I never said indentured servitude. But as you point out, the coaches are professionals...coaching amateurs. You always hear the athletes calling their bowl games or NCAA games "business trips." Coaching and facilities are often as good or possibly better than the pros when you look at the Melo Center or especially Oregon's new facility.

How are the coaches pros and paid like pros, but the athletes are "students." To me that seems like a contradiction that can't be reconciled. Even 10 years ago this wasn't the issue that it is now. At that time we were talking $5-10m a year in media rights. The money is increasing exponentially but the athletes are getting the same benefits that they received 30 years ago. Instead of letting the market determine what the athletes are worth, the NCAA monopoly has dictated what the athletes are worth. I think they're worth a whole lot more than a scholarship.

And for every Johnny Football with a pro career on the horizon there are 50+ kids who have a fleeting few years of fame. I just don't care about whatever internal problems are caused for a team as a result of some kids making money and others not. That just adds another level of professional management that the well-paid professional coaches and AD's would have to deal with.

With respect to incentives, why not allow the schools to offer incentives to the athletes based on performance. They could offer it across the athletics department for performance. $10,000 per scholarship basketball player for a Final Four. Maybe $2000 for a non revenue sport.

 

[orangenirvana]

The adults have paved the road to the NBA through college and that's why they are there. To argue that their scholarships are of monetary value to them when that's not the reason they are there is silly.

That was never the argument. You said kids are forced into college, which is wrong.

 

[SC Orange]

Title IX is about access to education, which would not be affected by playing players in revenue-producing sports (football, men's and in some cases women's basketball, and maybe baseball). The number of scholarships would still need to match the undergraduate enrollment.

Not to mention that the NCAA (the main supervisor of Title IX, along with the U.S. DOE) would not be involved with paying players. The ability of the NCAA to rule on eligibility based on amateur status (not played to play, participate in pro leagues) would have to be removed by the NCAA members schools.

In that scenario, the NCAA would only govern competition and the educational side of eligibility.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...le-athletes-will-have-get-paid-too-180950338/

maybe I'm wrong but I'm not the only one that sees title ix as an issue