Some G'town observations | Syracusefan.com

Some G'town observations

billsin01

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Nice W and pulls us one step closer to what I would consider a pretty clean OOC portion of the sked. I know we may have made KU look a little better than they are by allowing Graham to shoot threes at the top of the key all night, but at no point in the offseason did I ever give us a chance in that game. We beat who we were supposed to beat, even if it was ugly at times, so far and we won another 50/50 game this afternoon. I'll take it.

Some thoughts:

Georgetown under Ewing is interesting
Cool to play a game against a regional rival and a team we care about. I will get used to the ACC but cool to see JB, Ewing and Orr on the sidelines and a crowd getting into a big game (the fat head of JB picking his nose is awesome). For those of us lucky enough to experience the height of the BE, I don't think we'll ever recapture it, but days like this are a fun reminder.

That said, jury is probably out on Ewing as a coach but if I'm a G'town fan I like what I see. They played three distinct defenses (something people here would love to see us do at times) -- decent M2M and OK zone and some relatively aggressive pressure. They also looked to push the tempo when they could -- a good move against our zone but also just a fun style to play and watch.

I have no problem with their schedule. BC beats Duke, Colgate is up 17 in the second half on BC, Ball State beats ND, yadda, yadda, yadda. Point is, it's not easy to win games in college basketball these days so if you want to load up on creampuffs and get your team essentially 320 minutes of gametime to gel before you face your first test -- I'm OK with it. Whatever -- if you don't win real games, you're not getting in the tourney anyway, so I feel like people need to relax on that stuff. Although at one point Kellog wrote it off as a good strategy for a 'young' team. G'town has three juniors and a senior among their top five in minutes. That's a pretty veteran group.

Anyway, regardless, I feel like the Ewing era is off to a decent start for Hoyas fans. Some other observations ...

Chuckwu needs to work on the cheap fouls he picks up
Paschal continues to play pretty well for the most part and I like the aggressiveness he's shown this year. But foul trouble is going to come regardless as we play bigger, more physical teams. Chuckwu's habit of picking up at least one if not two kind of clumsy over-the-back type fouls in the offensive end where he winds up leaning all over guys hurts b/c he's already going to have his hands full on the other end of the court. He doesn't have to be perfect but he does need to be cognoscente of that stuff to a certain degree.

Howard with the prettiest 7 TO game in Syracuse history
People get frustrated with howard which I understand. The body language when something goes wrong isn't great, the handle is a little loose and he's got that weird thing where he's a decent shooter but when he misses he misses bad (backboard and then back-iron or off the side of the rim, shanking out of bounds one way or the other ... even on a free throw occasionally).

But the dude put up 19 and 9 with three steals while logging 44 minutes. What's more, it's not crazy to think he could have been pretty close to a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio if all we did was finish layups and dunks he set up (three in the first half and two in the second).

Game's not pretty and he may have some ugly moments, but he was important today, particularly with Brissett struggling in the first half.

Offense is going to be spotty for this team ... obviously
There were a lot of complaints in the game thread from the end of the first half through about the 8 minute mark of the second half but I didn't think the play was that bad. I think we looked far worse in the exhibition vs. CCSU, for example. The issues in that exhibition were that no one seemed to have a clue how to create looks. Today, there were some mistakes and turnovers, but ultimately the differences in the second half during the run were the tempo (which helps a struggling offense) and the fact that, well, we made shots. Getting good looks may be a bit of a struggle all year (Battle is still probably the only real creator we have) but when we do we need to knock them down. Did that in the last 8-10 minutes and that led to the W.

Sometimes too, by the way, you have to give your opponent some credit. Not totally sure how good g'town or cuse are at this point, but Govan is a tough kid to check (even his missed jumpers hung on the rim) and Derrickson is a bull who also somehow hits 93% (seriously?) from the FT line. I'm pretty sure G'town fans would argue that his foul trouble and eventual fifth foul (questionable call?) were the reason they lost the game. Anyway, thought G'town looked OK and that played into our struggles.

Sidibe looked rusty
Not sure how healthy Sidibe is, but I think regardless, his first game action in a couple weeks looked like exactly that: a guy who's timing was off. He's shown pretty good hands, but he couldn't catch anything today and my guess is he would have struggled to finish as well. Nice to see him back out on the court and hope it's more a matter of rust and less continued struggles with his ankle/knee.

Brissett -- when he's shooting he's close to unstoppable
Not much more to write. Kid is a stud and if he's going to start dropping threes at a high rate, we have two of the tougher individual matchups in the ACC.

Moyer may now know who he is
Offensively, hang around the rim and finish strong when you get the chance. Otherwise rebound and defend. 33 minutes in an OT win against a team that should at least be competitive this season is a good sign. Credit JB with being decently patient with Moyer as well, by the way. Moyer has done little or nothing in most games he's played in, yet JB has played him at least 12 minutes 8 times and today was his fourth game of 25 or more minutes. Good to see b/c obviously it helps to have more bodies.

Last but not least ... LOVE this team's activity
Dolezaj takes a massive header ... and checks back in. Battle has already had a serious fall and resulting back injury and despite being a first-rounder, he's diving into the scorer's table for a loose ball. Brissett misses a shot and is the first one off the ground for the next two rebounds at the rim. Howard was working hard and comes up with a huge steal late. Chuckwu and Sidibe are working hard when they're in there. Nice game from Moyer as well and he grabs 11 boards. This team wants it and plays like it. That counts for something -- probably for at least a couple of W's over the course of the season. Today was probably one of them.
 
I'm having a difficult time understanding how some are rationalizing 7 turnovers as somehow being acceptable.

Love what Frank did otherwise, but the propensity to fall victim to unforced turnovers has to change. Period.

And bills, I don't mean to knock your detailed / well thought out post otherwise.
 
I'm having a difficult time understanding how some are rationalizing 7 turnovers as somehow being acceptable.

Love what Frank did otherwise, but the propensity to fall victim to unforced turnovers has to change. Period.

7 turnovers is brutal. Just not often you see 7 turnovers and feel like a guy actually played well. We can’t have him turning the ball over that way but I thought he found open teammates all night, played really solid defense and put up 18 fairly efficient points as well and logged 44 minutes. We desperately need him to take better care of the ball but I felt he was a huge part of the win at the same time. Go figure.

And I intended it as sort of a back-handed compliment by the way.
 
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I'm having a difficult time understanding how some are rationalizing 7 turnovers as somehow being acceptable.

Love what Frank did otherwise, but the propensity to fall victim to unforced turnovers has to change. Period.

And bills, I don't mean to knock your detailed / well thought out post otherwise.
At least 2 were dropped passes that should have been assists.
 
I'm having a difficult time understanding how some are rationalizing 7 turnovers as somehow being acceptable.

Love what Frank did otherwise, but the propensity to fall victim to unforced turnovers has to change. Period.

And bills, I don't mean to knock your detailed / well thought out post otherwise.

No arguing that Frank has some head scratchers. But at least 2-3 of those turnovers today were on the bigs not catching his pass... he set them up well for the most part, but they just bumbled the pass.
 
7 turnovers is a lot, but when you are trying to create all the time thats going to happen.. this isnt a team where the PT just stands around outside and throws down to bigs for easy scores or just runs 3 on 2 breaks all day.. he has to work for every drive and is going to make mistakes and we have to live with it.. 7 is too much but expecting 2-3 is asking too much too.
 
No arguing that Frank has some head scratchers. But at least 2-3 of those turnovers today were on the bigs not catching his pass... he set them up well for the most part, but they just bumbled the pass.

I'm fine with errors of commission. No player is going to perform entirely mistake free -- that isn't the goal / expectation.

But there were several turnovers where he's go up and just lose the ball, or make an ill-advised dish to the heels of a 6-10 guy on a bounce pass, etc. He needs to clean that up -- we aren't going to win many games with 17 turnovers. He's the lead guard, he has to perform better.

And please note, I love love love what he did otherwise. This isn't a Frank bashing sentiment -- to the contrary, I've been one of Frank's biggest supporters since he signed with us. But for this team to optimize it's potential, we can't afford to have our point guard playing so carelessly with the ball. That's all I'm saying. It is easy to overlook that level of carelessness when we win, but if this continues it is going to cost us games.
 
7 turnovers is a lot, but when you are trying to create all the time thats going to happen.. this isnt a team where the PT just stands around outside and throws down to bigs for easy scores or just runs 3 on 2 breaks all day.. he has to work for every drive and is going to make mistakes and we have to live with it.. 7 is too much but expecting 2-3 is asking too much too.

7 turnovers is "going to happen?" Come on.

No, expecting 2-3 turnovers is not "too much," nor unrealistic. That's exactly where a consistent, high major point guard should be in terms of taking care of the ball. That's where Frank needs to get to. He can do it!
 
if Frank slows down his game to keep it to 2-3 then we have to live with 4-5 less scoring chances a game too. he makes this 2-3 bad mistakes every game and more some games, but its those same decisions that lead to 3-4 baskets as well
 
I’m not saying Frank is MCW, but his turnover rate is incredibly similar to his in 2013. MCW had 11 games where he had 6 or more turnovers in a game that year and some of those were against mid majors. This is Franks second.
 
if Frank slows down his game to keep it to 2-3 then we have to live with 4-5 less scoring chances a game too. he makes this 2-3 bad mistakes every game and more some games, but its those same decisions that lead to 3-4 baskets as well

Nonsense. That's a false attribution.

I like that Frank has a good nose for making plays. But there are definitely mistakes that can get cut out of his performance -- and basketball is an execution based game. Especially at point guard.

He can still be aggressive, and cut down on turnovers. We aren't going to win many games committing 17+ turnovers, no matter what people would like to pretend. The sloppy play has to get cleaned up.

And for the record, feel free to review the stats for the last 3 games, and let me know what conclusions you reach about the number of turnovers Frank has had over this three game stretch. It is unbeleivable to be honest that people are okay with this trend.
 
Frank is an off Guard playing point. He doesnt have the handle or instincts of a point guard and will make more mistakes. The flip side is we have a very long player at the top of the zone who is a strong rebounder. Its a trade off and besides Washington we dont have a true 1 on the team.
 
This win is due to JB’s Strategy Adjustment.

People in the game thread were hammering Coach for sticking with the press.

While there were some undeniable negatives (Hoyas played 2 on 1 break when they broke the pressure in the backcourt, our bigs foul’d out, Battle worn down), the extended pressure sped them up and disrupted Ewing’s half court sets. It was an attrition approach (vice chaotic “blitz” in a short burst) over an extended period in the 2nd half.

And that unsettled tempo created enough turnovers and loosened things up for our three primary scorers. Who all thrived in more unsettled/one on one circumstances.

Great 2nd half by Brisette, good last 15minute stretch for Howard and Great overall game by Battle.

But I’m convinced JB’s in game adjustment during the 2nd Half put all three in position to succeed. The Old Man schooled Ewing and won this one...
 
This win is due to JB’s Strategy Adjustment.

People in the game thread were hammering Coach for sticking with the press.

While there were some undeniable negatives (Hoyas played 2 on 1 break when they broke the pressure in the backcourt, our bigs foul’d out, Battle worn down), the extended pressure sped them up and disrupted Ewing’s half court sets. It was an attrition approach (vice chaotic “blitz” in a short burst) over an extended period in the 2nd half.

And that unsettled tempo created enough turnovers and loosened things up for our three primary scorers. Who all thrived in more unsettled/one on one circumstances.

Great 2nd half by Brisette, good last 15minute stretch for Howard and Great overall game by Battle.

But I’m convinced JB’s in game adjustment during the 2nd Half put all three in position to succeed. The Old Man schooled Ewing and won this one...

Yep. Total mismatch with Jimmy abusing Ewing in the 2nd half. Ewing face at the end was priceless
 
I'm fine with errors of commission. No player is going to perform entirely mistake free -- that isn't the goal / expectation.

But there were several turnovers where he's go up and just lose the ball, or make an ill-advised dish to the heels of a 6-10 guy on a bounce pass, etc. He needs to clean that up -- we aren't going to win many games with 17 turnovers. He's the lead guard, he has to perform better.

And please note, I love love love what he did otherwise. This isn't a Frank bashing sentiment -- to the contrary, I've been one of Frank's biggest supporters since he signed with us. But for this team to optimize it's potential, we can't afford to have our point guard playing so carelessly with the ball. That's all I'm saying. It is easy to overlook that level of carelessness when we win, but if this continues it is going to cost us games.
I've stopped worrying about it. It's just part of the Frankie Howard package.
 
A couple of things. Battle is not our only creator -- Brissett is as well, and Frank gets into the lane and makes things happen.
I get the knocks on 7 turnovers -- and it would help if Battle handled more, and got more assists than turnovers (he had one assist, playing the entire game). Want fewer turnovers from Frank; want Battle to up his assists.

As others have said, when Frank get 3 steals, 19 points, and a host of assists getting Moyer & Chukwu some dunks (which no one else is doing, except Dolezaj on occasion), I will consider his overall play and be happy with his contributions to the win.
Turnovers are bad, so are missed shots, getting stuffed on shots, committing offensive fouls -- they just show up in other lines in the box score.
 
Nice W and pulls us one step closer to what I would consider a pretty clean OOC portion of the sked. I know we may have made KU look a little better than they are by allowing Graham to shoot threes at the top of the key all night, but at no point in the offseason did I ever give us a chance in that game. We beat who we were supposed to beat, even if it was ugly at times, so far and we won another 50/50 game this afternoon. I'll take it.

Some thoughts:

Georgetown under Ewing is interesting
Cool to play a game against a regional rival and a team we care about. I will get used to the ACC but cool to see JB, Ewing and Orr on the sidelines and a crowd getting into a big game (the fat head of JB picking his nose is awesome). For those of us lucky enough to experience the height of the BE, I don't think we'll ever recapture it, but days like this are a fun reminder.

That said, jury is probably out on Ewing as a coach but if I'm a G'town fan I like what I see. They played three distinct defenses (something people here would love to see us do at times) -- decent M2M and OK zone and some relatively aggressive pressure. They also looked to push the tempo when they could -- a good move against our zone but also just a fun style to play and watch.

I have no problem with their schedule. BC beats Duke, Colgate is up 17 in the second half on BC, Ball State beats ND, yadda, yadda, yadda. Point is, it's not easy to win games in college basketball these days so if you want to load up on creampuffs and get your team essentially 320 minutes of gametime to gel before you face your first test -- I'm OK with it. Whatever -- if you don't win real games, you're not getting in the tourney anyway, so I feel like people need to relax on that stuff. Although at one point Kellog wrote it off as a good strategy for a 'young' team. G'town has three juniors and a senior among their top five in minutes. That's a pretty veteran group.

Anyway, regardless, I feel like the Ewing era is off to a decent start for Hoyas fans. Some other observations ...

Chuckwu needs to work on the cheap fouls he picks up
Paschal continues to play pretty well for the most part and I like the aggressiveness he's shown this year. But foul trouble is going to come regardless as we play bigger, more physical teams. Chuckwu's habit of picking up at least one if not two kind of clumsy over-the-back type fouls in the offensive end where he winds up leaning all over guys hurts b/c he's already going to have his hands full on the other end of the court. He doesn't have to be perfect but he does need to be cognoscente of that stuff to a certain degree.

Howard with the prettiest 7 TO game in Syracuse history
People get frustrated with howard which I understand. The body language when something goes wrong isn't great, the handle is a little loose and he's got that weird thing where he's a decent shooter but when he misses he misses bad (backboard and then back-iron or off the side of the rim, shanking out of bounds one way or the other ... even on a free throw occasionally).

But the dude put up 19 and 9 with three steals while logging 44 minutes. What's more, it's not crazy to think he could have been pretty close to a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio if all we did was finish layups and dunks he set up (three in the first half and two in the second).

Game's not pretty and he may have some ugly moments, but he was important today, particularly with Brissett struggling in the first half.

Offense is going to be spotty for this team ... obviously
There were a lot of complaints in the game thread from the end of the first half through about the 8 minute mark of the second half but I didn't think the play was that bad. I think we looked far worse in the exhibition vs. CCSU, for example. The issues in that exhibition were that no one seemed to have a clue how to create looks. Today, there were some mistakes and turnovers, but ultimately the differences in the second half during the run were the tempo (which helps a struggling offense) and the fact that, well, we made shots. Getting good looks may be a bit of a struggle all year (Battle is still probably the only real creator we have) but when we do we need to knock them down. Did that in the last 8-10 minutes and that led to the W.

Sometimes too, by the way, you have to give your opponent some credit. Not totally sure how good g'town or cuse are at this point, but Govan is a tough kid to check (even his missed jumpers hung on the rim) and Derrickson is a bull who also somehow hits 93% (seriously?) from the FT line. I'm pretty sure G'town fans would argue that his foul trouble and eventual fifth foul (questionable call?) were the reason they lost the game. Anyway, thought G'town looked OK and that played into our struggles.

Sidibe looked rusty
Not sure how healthy Sidibe is, but I think regardless, his first game action in a couple weeks looked like exactly that: a guy who's timing was off. He's shown pretty good hands, but he couldn't catch anything today and my guess is he would have struggled to finish as well. Nice to see him back out on the court and hope it's more a matter of rust and less continued struggles with his ankle/knee.

Brissett -- when he's shooting he's close to unstoppable
Not much more to write. Kid is a stud and if he's going to start dropping threes at a high rate, we have two of the tougher individual matchups in the ACC.

Moyer may now know who he is
Offensively, hang around the rim and finish strong when you get the chance. Otherwise rebound and defend. 33 minutes in an OT win against a team that should at least be competitive this season is a good sign. Credit JB with being decently patient with Moyer as well, by the way. Moyer has done little or nothing in most games he's played in, yet JB has played him at least 12 minutes 8 times and today was his fourth game of 25 or more minutes. Good to see b/c obviously it helps to have more bodies.

Last but not least ... LOVE this team's activity
Dolezaj takes a massive header ... and checks back in. Battle has already had a serious fall and resulting back injury and despite being a first-rounder, he's diving into the scorer's table for a loose ball. Brissett misses a shot and is the first one off the ground for the next two rebounds at the rim. Howard was working hard and comes up with a huge steal late. Chuckwu and Sidibe are working hard when they're in there. Nice game from Moyer as well and he grabs 11 boards. This team wants it and plays like it. That counts for something -- probably for at least a couple of W's over the course of the season. Today was probably one of them.
Good stuff, especially the part about Paschal and his dumb fouls. He's got to learn to be judicious with the aggressiveness, esp away from the basket
 
Yeah I mean Frank literally has the ball in his hands 90% of the time. Tyus is good with the ball but he doesn't create for others, and the same for O'Shae. Both of those guys can get their own shot, but that's it.

Frank has a lot on his shoulders and I think you have to expect some pretty brutal TO numbers because he's counted on so much to not only score, but break down the defense and look for his teammates as well as running the offense.
 
I agree with both rf and bills. 7 is a high number of tos numerically, but some were attributable to others not catching the ball and some to good pressure d by gtown.

I did not really see any tos of the dribble off the foot or throw it into the stands variety. Most were of the trying to make a play variety. Additionally frank made several great passes that were not converted inside. He could have easily had 12 or more assists.

All in all, forget the negative stats, frank was a huge part of the comeback. Very, very solid game by him. He was a huge positive today.
 
Frank finally has a really solid game against good competition - imo, the best game of his career - and some people are still harping. Yeah, 7 TO's isn't good. But the kid kept us in the game when we were just about to fall apart. Not Ty (who was great) - Frank. They bottled up Ty in the 2nd 1/2 and dared Frank and Oshae to do something. And they did. Oshae was huge, but so was Frank. His drives kept us in the game and set up Oshae's 3s. And Frank's steal and tying layup was the POG. Like others said, about 1/2 of his TOs should've been assists anyway. He's coming of age and think will be really good by the end of the year despite not being a true 1. He's definitely turned the corner. Also absolutely love JB's flexibility in handling the kid - tough, when he had to be, gentler and more forgiving now, when it's needed. The old man is wise and sly.
 
Yeah I mean Frank literally has the ball in his hands 90% of the time. Tyus is good with the ball but he doesn't create for others, and the same for O'Shae. Both of those guys can get their own shot, but that's it.

Frank has a lot on his shoulders and I think you have to expect some pretty brutal TO numbers because he's counted on so much to not only score, but break down the defense and look for his teammates as well as running the offense.

I'm sort of in the middle on this one b/c 7 TOs is a pretty ugly number. But to your point, including today, Frank is averaging 6.3 assists per game (63 on the season). The next closest in that category is Dolezaj with 20 ... then Battle with 15 ... and no one else with even double digits ... through 10 games. So no one else is doing a whole lot of creating, at least not consistently (Dolezaj does a nice job, his pump fake and kick to Brissett for a corner three was a thing of beauty) and that's not terribly unusual here, particularly with the poor PG play (or guys playing out of position at the 1) of late. But it's still a pretty pheonomenal number. As far as I can tell the list of Syracuse guards to average 6 assists a game for an entire season is as follows: The Pearl, Sherm, Z, Johnny Flynn, Allen Griffen, J Hart, Leo Rautins, Adrian Autry and MCW. Don't think I'm missing anyone. That's a virtual who's who of Cuse PGs (other than Rautins. GMac and Ennis were close).

I'm a bit concerned with the TOs as well but Frank is being asked to do a lot and, overall, he seems to be doing a pretty solid job.
 
I'm sort of in the middle on this one b/c 7 TOs is a pretty ugly number. But to your point, including today, Frank is averaging 6.3 assists per game (63 on the season). The next closest in that category is Dolezaj with 20 ... then Battle with 15 ... and no one else with even double digits ... through 10 games. So no one else is doing a whole lot of creating, at least not consistently (Dolezaj does a nice job, his pump fake and kick to Brissett for a corner three was a thing of beauty) and that's not terribly unusual here, particularly with the poor PG play (or guys playing out of position at the 1) of late. But it's still a pretty pheonomenal number. As far as I can tell the list of Syracuse guards to average 6 assists a game for an entire season is as follows: The Pearl, Sherm, Z, Johnny Flynn, Allen Griffen, J Hart, Leo Rautins, Adrian Autry and MCW. Don't think I'm missing anyone. That's a virtual who's who of Cuse PGs (other than Rautins. GMac and Ennis were close).

I'm a bit concerned with the TOs as well but Frank is being asked to do a lot and, overall, he seems to be doing a pretty solid job.
Very true and being asked to do a lot in an offense with poor spacing and off-ball movement. He's not exactly being put in great situations but is doing pretty well in spite of that. People need to get over the fact we don't have an NBA caliber PG in a great offense and understand he's doing well; better than expected.
 
This is also an OT game so Frank played 44 minutes with the 7 TOs if I'm not mistaken.
 
Frank finally has a really solid game against good competition - imo, the best game of his career - and some people are still harping. Yeah, 7 TO's isn't good. But the kid kept us in the game when we were just about to fall apart. Not Ty (who was great) - Frank. They bottled up Ty in the 2nd 1/2 and dared Frank and Oshae to do something. And they did. Oshae was huge, but so was Frank. His drives kept us in the game and set up Oshae's 3s. And Frank's steal and tying layup was the POG. Like others said, about 1/2 of his TOs should've been assists anyway. He's coming of age and think will be really good by the end of the year despite not being a true 1. He's definitely turned the corner. Also absolutely love JB's flexibility in handling the kid - tough, when he had to be, gentler and more forgiving now, when it's needed. The old man is wise and sly.

"Some people are still harping" complaint = you don't know @%%^ about basketball, if you can't understand why 7 turnovers is a bad thing.

The rationalization up in here is getting thick. Frank played terrific in several respects -- we don't win without every on of his contributions today. But anybody who thinks the propensity with which he's been turning the ball over the past several games is acceptable is delusional. He needs to do a better job taking care of the ball, or we aren't going to be able to beat teams that are better coached than when we play teams who's coach acn't read like Ewing.
 
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"Some people are still harping" complaint = you don't know @%%^ about basketball, if you can't understand why 7 turnovers is a bad thing.

The rationalization up in here is getting thick. Frank played terrific in several respects -- we don't win without every on of his contributions today. But anybody who thinks the propensity with which he's been turning the ball over the past several games is acceptable is delusional. He needs to do a better job taking care of the ball, or we aren't going to be able to beat teams that are better coached than when we play teams who's coach acn't read like Ewing.
Oy, ok, i'll bite. Yes, i may not know $!?@ about bball - never having played competitively and despite watching it for 36 years. To repeat: 7 To's is bad (it's in the post you replied to). The only "rationalization" was that about half of them were dropped by the bigs. Not true? That the rest of his game was excellent and it isn't questionable, is it?
 

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