Some quick overall season thoughts

[rrlbees]

Assist numbers in basketball can be severely inflated when you have a team full of elite shooters. Draymond Green is a solid passer out of the post, but he isn’t some passing savant and can bust out a 10 assist game pretty often.

And some PGs get assists both ways.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I’ll push on this a bit. Of his 12 assists only 3 have been to an open shooter hitting an outside shot like a 3. In fact the first game when he had 7 assists, 5 of them were to the bigs inside and 1 was on a fast break. Last night of the 5, 2 were to shooters outside while 2 were on a fast break including that long pass to Jesse. The other one was in the paint.

Thanks. I didn't see the first game, so appreciate that. I don't recall the second fast break, but I believe you. Was the inside pass to Jimmy?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

"Girard is shooting 100% from 3 and averaging 6 assists and only 2 turnovers per game (and one was a totally bullshit moving screen foul when the defender ran into him and knocked him down)."

The refs called some strange offensive fouls when no screen was being set.

I'm curious as to how folks think that moving screen should have been called. I don't think you could say it should have been a no call due to incidental contact. The defender has a right to stay in position to defend his man. Joe has the right to continue moving forward I suppose. Don't know who has the 'right of way' there.

 

[two3zone]

And some PGs get assists both ways.

No doubt, but Joe (and everyone else on the team), are going to rack up their assists.

 

[rrlbees]

Thanks. I didn't see the first game, so appreciate that. I don't recall the second fast break, but I believe you. Was the inside pass to Jimmy?

The layup by Jimmy was one of the fast break ones. The inside one was to Buddy. 4 of his 12 assists are to Jesse or Frank with another 3 to Jimmy.

 

[rrlbees]

No doubt, but Joe (and everyone else on the team), are going to rack up their assists.

Hope so. 9 of 12 haven’t been that type.

 

[upperdeck]

the moving screens are called on us a ton.. but most of the time the setter really doesnt need to be moving and the cutter isnt moving tight enough to the pick. Still to see it called 2-3-4 times a game on plays that really dont have much effect on the overall play is a bit much. Its not the setters job to move and I dont know why our guys dont stop it. whats the downfall of a poor set the play just continues on unless you get called for the foul. Still to see so many moving screens/picks against our zone not get called when our handoff plays do is kinda frustrating.

 

[Dave85]

I thought JBs comments from the press conference about the defense shifting when the ball was passed to top of the key were interesting. He called it a "slight adjustment" and then made the comment the team needs to figure out what the other team is doing sooner and react to it sooner. I've notice whenever a team or player has any success they usually try same thing again. The defense seemed better to me the second half.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

the moving screens are called on us a ton.. but most of the time the setter really doesnt need to be moving and the cutter isnt moving tight enough to the pick. Still to see it called 2-3-4 times a game on plays that really dont have much effect on the overall play is a bit much. Its not the setters job to move and I dont know why our guys dont stop it. whats the downfall of a poor set the play just continues on unless you get called for the foul. Still to see so many moving screens/picks against our zone not get called when our handoff plays do is kinda frustrating.

I agree that quite often we will see moving screens set on our guards when we are in the zone. That drives me bonkers. Didn't see that yesterday, but we see it often and it's almost never called and often leads to an open 3-pointer taken.

But Jesse turning his derriere into the defender was a text book moving screen, and as you say, completely unnecessary. He's too big to get away with something like that as well. Good point about some of our players not using the screen properly by waiting for the setter to establish, and running right off of his hip.

 

[General20]

Given Buddy's shooting as well as others on the team, do you honestly believe Joe's assist numbers reflect his distribution abilities, or the shooting abilities of his teammates? Other than the excellent long pass to Jesse yesterday, I can't think of any situations where he created a shot by his pass. As opposed to just hitting the guy, who may or may not have been open, who can hit a great shot. Buddy's first two shots were against a kid who clearly didn't read the scouting report, or the other pre-season POY polls, and who decided not to put a hand up in Buddy's face.

I see some hesitation from Joe to hit open guys who are new to the team for example. I think he's been better so far as compared to last year, but I'm still seeing some tendencies that need to be overcome to really help us beat much better teams. I recall a 'fast break' in the first half yesterday where he held the ball to drive instead of hitting someone ahead of him in better position to finish. He shot, but missed and that lead to a 'slow break' the other way.

I'd have to go back and watch to be sure, but I honestly don't think a single one of Joe's assists have come from just swinging the ball around the paremiter and having one of his teammates hit a covered 3. Syracuse doesn't play that way. They are not going to be able to play that way. Every team they play all year long is going to focus on denying the 3 point shot. Swinging the ball around the perimeter would never work. They need movement to get their shots off.

Joe's assist total is legit. I'm not calling him Magic Johnson, he's not taking the whole offense on himself, drawing double teams, and spoonfeeding his teammates easy baskets. Basically what I am saying is citicizing him for not being Magic Johnson is silly. He's not turning the ball over. He's quarterbacking the offense and getting the ball where it is suppose to be based on the plays called, and oh yeah, he's hitting 100% of his 3's! That's fantasic. We should celebrate it. I don't like the fact that I am seeing people trying to nitpick and looking at his game with a magnifying glass to find things to criticize. The kid made 1 turnover in a game where we got pressed a lot of the time, it was a meaningless turnover at the end of the game, and there have been about 20 posts about it.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I'd have to go back and watch to be sure, but I honestly don't think a single one of Joe's assists have come from just swinging the ball around the paremiter and having one of his teammates hit a covered 3. Syracuse doesn't play that way. They are not going to be able to play that way. Every team they play all year long is going to focus on denying the 3 point shot. Swinging the ball around the perimeter would never work. They need movement to get their shots off.

Joe's assist total is legit. I'm not calling him Magic Johnson, he's not taking the whole offense on himself, drawing double teams, and spoonfeeding his teammates easy baskets. Basically what I am saying is citicizing him for not being Magic Johnson is silly. He's not turning the ball over. He's quarterbacking the offense and getting the ball where it is suppose to be based on the plays called, and oh yeah, he's hitting 100% of his 3's! That's fantasic. We should celebrate it. I don't like the fact that I am seeing people trying to nitpick and looking at his game with a magnifying glass to find things to criticize. The kid made 1 turnover in a game where we got pressed a lot of the time, it was a meaningless turnover at the end of the game, and there have been about 20 posts about it.

My nit with JG3 is that he's not quick enough to dive down to harass the FT guy and still bother the perimeter 3, especially if the shooter is more as more of a 45 degree with relation to the hoop... this is giving the other team decent looks.

My other nit is with JG3 is that he is not always making great decisions when he is driving into the interior of the D... for example last night he had at least one or two passes which put the interior guy in trouble, it wasn't a turnover but it led to such a bad shot that it might as well have been one. Also his finishing isn't great.. even on fast breaks it seems 50/50 as to whether he will get caught.

While both of these nits are at the margins... that's kind of where we are at with this team right now. It's performing so well overall we can only pick at the margins. Unfortunately, against better teams than we have faced, the margins will matter a lot more and that's where JG3 might get exposed a bit more.

 

[Windyfly]

I'd have to go back and watch to be sure, but I honestly don't think a single one of Joe's assists have come from just swinging the ball around the paremiter and having one of his teammates hit a covered 3. Syracuse doesn't play that way. They are not going to be able to play that way. Every team they play all year long is going to focus on denying the 3 point shot. Swinging the ball around the perimeter would never work. They need movement to get their shots off.

Joe's assist total is legit. I'm not calling him Magic Johnson, he's not taking the whole offense on himself, drawing double teams, and spoonfeeding his teammates easy baskets. Basically what I am saying is citicizing him for not being Magic Johnson is silly. He's not turning the ball over. He's quarterbacking the offense and getting the ball where it is suppose to be based on the plays called, and oh yeah, he's hitting 100% of his 3's! That's fantasic. We should celebrate it. I don't like the fact that I am seeing people trying to nitpick and looking at his game with a magnifying glass to find things to criticize. The kid made 1 turnover in a game where we got pressed a lot of the time, it was a meaningless turnover at the end of the game, and there have been about 20 posts about it.

Cristism has not been warranted. There has been no need to dissect Joe’s game up to this point. He has looked really good for us and honestly much better than last year. He has very clearly taken a jump. I mean you couldn’t really ask for much more of him through two games. He’s finally understanding his role, how to play point and when to pick his shots and overall just looks to be much more fluid with the ball and creating. Not to mention his defense has been really good and his mistakes have been limited.

So are we going to continue to question Joe until he completes a perfect season, is that what it will take for some people to lay off for a little bit or should we finally just enjoy that our point guard has been looking good and put in a lot of work to get better...

 

[Mareiniss]

The strangest part of JB3 is his finishing with his right hand. It has to be so disorienting for the defender hedging his left shoulder

I've read that JB3 is actually right-handed, but for some reason learned to shoot left-handed as a kid and is more comfortable doing it that way.

 

[rrlbees]

I've read that JB3 is actually right-handed, but for some reason learned to shoot left-handed as a kid and is more comfortable doing it that way.

Except shooting a basketball he does everything else right handed.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'd have to go back and watch to be sure, but I honestly don't think a single one of Joe's assists have come from just swinging the ball around the paremiter and having one of his teammates hit a covered 3. Syracuse doesn't play that way. They are not going to be able to play that way. Every team they play all year long is going to focus on denying the 3 point shot. Swinging the ball around the perimeter would never work. They need movement to get their shots off.

Joe's assist total is legit. I'm not calling him Magic Johnson, he's not taking the whole offense on himself, drawing double teams, and spoonfeeding his teammates easy baskets. Basically what I am saying is citicizing him for not being Magic Johnson is silly. He's not turning the ball over. He's quarterbacking the offense and getting the ball where it is suppose to be based on the plays called, and oh yeah, he's hitting 100% of his 3's! That's fantasic. We should celebrate it. I don't like the fact that I am seeing people trying to nitpick and looking at his game with a magnifying glass to find things to criticize. The kid made 1 turnover in a game where we got pressed a lot of the time, it was a meaningless turnover at the end of the game, and there have been about 20 posts about it.

Doesn't fit the narrative.
"Efficient, smart, & patient Joe", doesn't jibe well w/ "reckless, overweight, Covid-addled Joe" from last season.
And of course there's still some residual resentment about the whole Kadary situation.
I think there are fans who will never accept Joe's role in anything positive we do, and will look to emphasize Joe's role in anything negative that might occur. It simply is, what it is.

 

[Jake]

Given Buddy's shooting as well as others on the team, do you honestly believe Joe's assist numbers reflect his distribution abilities, or the shooting abilities of his teammates? Other than the excellent long pass to Jesse yesterday, I can't think of any situations where he created a shot by his pass. As opposed to just hitting the guy, who may or may not have been open, who can hit a great shot. Buddy's first two shots were against a kid who clearly didn't read the scouting report, or the other pre-season POY polls, and who decided not to put a hand up in Buddy's face.

I see some hesitation from Joe to hit open guys who are new to the team for example. I think he's been better so far as compared to last year, but I'm still seeing some tendencies that need to be overcome to really help us beat much better teams. I recall a 'fast break' in the first half yesterday where he held the ball to drive instead of hitting someone ahead of him in better position to finish. He shot, but missed and that lead to a 'slow break' the other way.

Joe doesn’t need to be Sherman Douglas. Just limit turnovers, don’t force shots and make open threes. He’s checked all three boxes. No issues with him right now.

Like I said in another thread, it’ll be interesting to see how Sy and Joe are used against late game pressure.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Joe doesn’t need to be Sherman Douglas. Just limit turnovers, don’t force shots and make open threes. He’s checked all three boxes. No issues with him right now.

Like I said in another thread, it’ll be interesting to see how Sy and Joe are used against late game pressure.

Sy has to make foul shots if he wants to play late in tight games.

 

[NorSyr66]

"Girard is shooting 100% from 3 and averaging 6 assists and only 2 turnovers per game (and one was a totally bullshit moving screen foul when the defender ran into him and knocked him down)."

The refs called some strange offensive fouls when no screen was being set.

I for one am a bit confused on the number of offensive calls we have had in the first few games when the refs call the moving screen. Heck the one guy knocked Joe to the floor and they called the foul on Joe.

It brings up another point from above about giving JB credit for playing Symir, Benny and Frank for extended minutes. At one point after Frank picked up two fouls back to back, JB called him over to explain a few finer points but left him in the game. That is so non JB from the past. Usually a bench player will make a mistake a nd is hooked immediately and sent to the end of the bench. This team is going to have 8 ready players come March. And if Bourama finally over comes his injuries, we will have 9 game tested players. LGO!!

 

[kcsu]

My nit with JG3 is that he's not quick enough to dive down to harass the FT guy and still bother the perimeter 3, especially if the shooter is more as more of a 45 degree with relation to the hoop... this is giving the other team decent looks.

My other nit is with JG3 is that he is not always making great decisions when he is driving into the interior of the D... for example last night he had at least one or two passes which put the interior guy in trouble, it wasn't a turnover but it led to such a bad shot that it might as well have been one. Also his finishing isn't great.. even on fast breaks it seems 50/50 as to whether he will get caught.

While both of these nits are at the margins... that's kind of where we are at with this team right now. It's performing so well overall we can only pick at the margins. Unfortunately, against better teams than we have faced, the margins will matter a lot more and that's where JG3 might get exposed a bit more.

Joe is playing well. 100% better than last year. Joe just needs to play his role. Protect the ball,keep it moving on O, play with effort on D, dont force shots. He is a great shooter when he gets a clean look. He is a poor shooter when he has to create his own shot. Fortunately on this team he should almost never have to force a shot.
I think we will be ok with him this year because of the number of scoring options.
I also like the fact that JB doesn't seem to be coddling him as much.

 

[HoustonCuse]

He needs Jimmy’s mentality, Jimmy may be the most fearless guy on the team, I can honestly see Jimmy being the better player out of the two of them by the end of the year.

I know you mean fearless in terms of confidence, but it immediately made me think of this hypothetical question: do you think Jimmy would step in and take that charge from Zion? And then another: did JB appreciate that play or think it was stupid (ie it is essentially the act of a martyr and thus potentially frowned upon even by a hard nose old school coach).

 

[billsin01]

He did have 3 steals last night.

Yup — he’s quick enough and has quick enough hands to be a GMac type defender. I just don’t see it consistently. I’m not saying he should have had 6 steals either. I’m just saying loose balls, being there to close out, tipping passes … those are effort plays and at times his effort is excellent. At other times it wanes.

 

[Mareiniss]

I know you mean fearless in terms of confidence, but it immediately made me think of this hypothetical question: do you think Jimmy would step in and take that charge from Zion? And then another: did JB appreciate that play or think it was stupid (ie it is essentially the act of a martyr and thus potentially frowned upon even by a hard nose old school coach).

Good questions. I have no inside information and am just making an educated guess. but I suspect JB would appreciate Marek's toughness in taking the charge from Zion. I base that on the fact that he pushed Marek to return to the later game where he broke a tooth, saying something like, "it's just a tooth."

 

[Alsacs]

Interesting reread.

 

[pearl31]

just a simple, no-intent bump of a thread, nothing more...

(the horror! people prognosticating in November can be wrong!)

 

[Sherman20]

Interesting reread.

where has General20 been, btw? I miss his contributions. And Dasher!