Somebody who coaches basketball or knows defense can they explain what not having a rim protector at 5 does to the zone?

[Alsacs]

I just don’t get how we can play a center who isn’t a center in the middle in a close game and expect our defense which struggles to not struggle even more.

Offense wasn’t our problem in this game at all. I just need it explained.

 

[oldpinepoint]

if Jesse can’t get to the corners then Jimmy can’t get to the edge of the paint

 

[two3zone]

I just don’t get how we can play a center who isn’t a center in the middle in a close game and expect our defense which struggles to not struggle even more.

Offense wasn’t our problem in this game at all. I just need it explained.

If we’re going to guard the corner 3 as much as we do it seems to make more sense to put Benny at the 5, at least he’s quick and would get out there faster than Jimmy.

 

[NineOneSeven]

It allows baskets inside. Which is what happened, unsurprisingly.

 

[Scooch]

I just don’t get it. We have four centers on scholarship. So when one fouls out we don’t use one of the three other centers. Nope. We put an Ivy League-caliber forward in for a lengthy stretch to close the game.

What in the heck are we even doing? Why do we keep recruiting bean-pole projects at C who can’t get on the floor?

This roster is such a catastrophic mess.

 

[jdubs30]

I just don’t get it. We have four centers on scholarship. So when one fouls out we don’t use one of the three other centers. Nope. We put an Ivy League-caliber forward in for a lengthy stretch to close the game.

What in the heck are we even doing? Why do we keep recruiting bean-pole projects at C who can’t get on the floor?

This roster is such a catastrophic mess.

Frank has barely gotten a chance. He’s shown enough IMO to get at least 10mpg, and it was a no brainer to play him tonight. The roster construction is awful but if JB just puts Frank in, we win. Frank is a capable backup center

 

[Alsacs]

Frank has barely gotten a chance. He’s shown enough IMO to get at least 10mpg, and it was a no brainer to play him tonight. The roster construction is awful but if JB just puts Frank in, we win. Frank is a capable backup center

I mean even if we played offense/defense atleast that would make some sense. Play Jimmy when we have the ball and sub Frank in for defense.

Their is absolutely NO REASON why Jimmy was the 5 on the laat
Possession in regulation.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It was the classic offense/defense substitution right there.

 

[jdubs30]

I mean even if we played offense/defense atleast that would make some sense. Play Jimmy when we have the ball and sub Frank in for defense.

Their is absolutely NO REASON why Jimmy was the 5 on the laat
Possession in regulation.

I half expected JB to say he had Jimmy in there for his FT shooting

 

[Chip]

JB said it in the presser. He thinks that group is good enough on defense and then has an advantage with Jimmy on offense.

I assume he really believes that so that’s where we are.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I just don’t get how we can play a center who isn’t a center in the middle in a close game and expect our defense which struggles to not struggle even more.

Offense wasn’t our problem in this game at all. I just need it explained.

Look, I think you can kill Jimmy for the last 2 games. He was awful.
Tonight, he was the only guy, for long stretches, who could score inside the 3 point line.

He gave up a couple awful dunks at the end playing the 5, and he got "big boyed", I agree.

I don't think he should have started overtime there, and he shouldn't have been at center for the last possession or two of regulation (JB could have substituted offense / defense in that spot and has done so this season with other players ).

But it's not Jimmy's fault that his dad didn't take him out of the game. You can't kill the kid; he was trying his best.

 

[Alsacs]

Look, I think you can kill Jimmy for the last 2 games. He was awful.
Tonight, he was the only guy, for long stretches, who could score inside the 3 point line.

He gave up a couple awful dunks at the end playing the 5, and he got "big boyed", I agree.

I don't think he should have started overtime there, and he shouldn't have been at center for the last possession or two of regulation (JB could have substituted offense / defense in that spot and has done so this season with other players ).

But it's not Jimmy's fault that his dad didn't take him out of the game. You can't kill the kid; he was trying his best.

It’s not the kid’s fault. It’s the HC fault.

That is my point. The HC should have made a defensive sub when we needed to protect the lead. Wake scores that basket in regulation with ridiculous ease.

 

[Cuseball]

It’s not the kid’s fault. It’s the HC fault.

That is my point. The HC should have made a defensive sub when we needed to protect the lead. Wake scores that basket in regulation with ridiculous ease.

It is completely indefensible to not have Frank as the center for the last 11 seconds. Jimmy Jr tries hard but is possibly one of the worst defenders to ever wear a Cuse uniform and is absolutely not a center. It made no sense at all and that decision played a huge part in losing. I defend coach a lot but I don’t think anyone can defend him here.

Cuse!

 

[jdubs30]

Look, I think you can kill Jimmy for the last 2 games. He was awful.
Tonight, he was the only guy, for long stretches, who could score inside the 3 point line.

He gave up a couple awful dunks at the end playing the 5, and he got "big boyed", I agree.

I don't think he should have started overtime there, and he shouldn't have been at center for the last possession or two of regulation (JB could have substituted offense / defense in that spot and has done so this season with other players ).

But it's not Jimmy's fault that his dad didn't take him out of the game. You can't kill the kid; he was trying his best.

It’s not the kid’s fault. It’s the HC fault.

That is my point. The HC should have made a defensive sub when we needed to protect the lead. Wake scores that basket in regulation with ridiculous ease.

Yeah I don’t think anyone is mad at Jimmy. He’s honestly been better than I thought offensively, and none of his limitations are surprising. But much like Buddy, Jim is putting Jimmy in terrible positions that is leading to the fan base being very upset.

It’s a shame too because if this team was built better and Jimmy/Buddy were getting reasonable PT for their skill set, I think people would love them.

JB went all in on his kids and it’s not paying off

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yeah I don’t think anyone is mad at Jimmy. He’s honestly been better than I thought offensively, and none of his limitations are surprising. But much like Buddy, Jim is putting Jimmy in terrible positions that is leading to the fan base being very upset.

It’s a shame too because if this team was built better and Jimmy/Buddy were getting reasonable PT for their skill set, I think people would love them.

JB went all in on his kids and it’s not paying off

Who could have seen that coming?

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think the stat that someone mentioned that Jr. plays more minutes at SU than he did at Cornell is very telling.

 

[elimunelson]

This team really needed Marek

 

[jdubs30]

I think the stat that someone mentioned that Jr. plays more minutes at SU than he did at Cornell is very telling.

The bench guys at Cornell were more ready to play

 

[81South]

Not having the extra length from someone who is athletic and anticipates we’ll really does hurt. I mean it’s hard to believe that pass got through the defense and then Jimmy couldn’t get up and block the shot. Maybe it all goes down the same with Frank…I don’t know. Jim clearly thinks in a critical moment that junior is a better center than Frank. I am not surprised he feels this way. I believe he thinks his kids are better players and smarter players than probably anyone else on our team so I am not the least bit surprised it went down like it did

 

[RF2044]

I just don’t get how we can play a center who isn’t a center in the middle in a close game and expect our defense which struggles to not struggle even more.

Offense wasn’t our problem in this game at all. I just need it explained.

I don't think you're asking the right question, Alsacs -- because we've had several guys who've been effective in the pivot who've gotten it done in a lot of different ways. Shot blocking is great, but it's the defense of last resort -- and often is a sign that the defense has broken down, but gets bailed out by the center [or another secondary defender] getting a block and erasing the breakdown.

Arinze wasn't a great shot blocker -- but he was massively strong and controlled the paint in that way.

Keita wasn't a great shot blocker -- but he excelled at positioning, knew where he was supposed to be out there, and called things out so that his teammates got in the right position most of the time, too.

IMO, the weakness of the zone THIS year is twofold: our forwards are too slow, and once they are out of position, they don't have the speed / length to recover. That's why teams that make the extra pass get wide open look after wide open look, and why we fall back on having Jesse fly out to challenge baseline threes. Benny Williams would give us an athlete with all of the right attributes for the zone, but his readiness has been low, and he hasn't gotten much PT.

The second factor is that we are weak up top, with two minus-defenders in the backcourt. Think about how disruptive MCW and Triche were, or even Gbjinje / Cooney. They made it much more difficult for teams to drive, pass, etc. because they were big, athletic, and had good anticipation.

Absent those two factors, the zone looks like the proverbial tavern league. And relies more than ever on the one plus defender we have -- Jesse -- to be superman in terms of blocking shots.

 

[Chip]

I don't think you're asking the right question, Alsacs -- because we've had several guys who've been effective in the pivot who've gotten it done in a lot of different ways. Shot blocking is great, but it's the defense of last resort -- and often is a sign that the defense has broken down, but gets bailed out by the center [or another secondary defender] getting a block and erasing the breakdown.

Arinze wasn't a great shot blocker -- but he was massively strong and controlled the paint in that way.

Keita wasn't a great shot blocker -- but he excelled at positioning, knew where he was supposed to be out there, and called things out so that his teammates got in the right position most of the time, too.

IMO, the weakness of the zone THIS year is twofold: our forwards are too slow, and once they are out of position, they don't have the speed / length to recover. That's why teams that make the extra pass get wide open look after wide open look, and why we fall back on having Jesse fly out to challenge baseline threes. Benny Williams would give us an athlete with all of the right attributes for the zone, but his readiness has been low, and he hasn't gotten much PT.

The second factor is that we are weak up top, with two minus-defenders in the backcourt. Think about how disruptive MCW and Triche were, or even Gbjinje / Cooney. They made it much more difficult for teams to drive, pass, etc. because they were big, athletic, and had good anticipation.

Absent those two factors, the zone looks like the proverbial tavern league. And relies more than ever on the one plus defender we have -- Jesse -- to be superman in terms of blocking shots.

Yep. The zone can hide some individual deficiencies if the effort is there. But not when the deficiencies exist in 4 out of the 5 spots on the floor.

 

[81South]

I don't think you're asking the right question, Alsacs -- because we've had several guys who've been effective in the pivot who've gotten it done in a lot of different ways. Shot blocking is great, but it's the defense of last resort -- and often is a sign that the defense has broken down, but gets bailed out by the center [or another secondary defender] getting a block and erasing the breakdown.

Arinze wasn't a great shot blocker -- but he was massively strong and controlled the paint in that way.

Keita wasn't a great shot blocker -- but he excelled at positioning, knew where he was supposed to be out there, and called things out so that his teammates got in the right position most of the time, too.

IMO, the weakness of the zone THIS year is twofold: our forwards are too slow, and once they are out of position, they don't have the speed / length to recover. That's why teams that make the extra pass get wide open look after wide open look, and why we fall back on having Jesse fly out to challenge baseline threes. Benny Williams would give us an athlete with all of the right attributes for the zone, but his readiness has been low, and he hasn't gotten much PT.

The second factor is that we are weak up top, with two minus-defenders in the backcourt. Think about how disruptive MCW and Triche were, or even Gbjinje / Cooney. They made it much more difficult for teams to drive, pass, etc. because they were big, athletic, and had good anticipation.

Absent those two factors, the zone looks like the proverbial tavern league. And relies more than ever on the one plus defender we have -- Jesse -- to be superman in terms of blocking shots.

In regards to the last 11 seconds the issues that you pointed had nothing to do with. Benny was playing weak side forward so he has the speed and length that we need. The problem was Jimmy and Benny could not a) deflect the pass to the player sitting behind them and then b) neither one could adequately challenge the shot at the basket. Frank is longer and more athletic than Jimmy so you could reasonably foresee that play coming out differently had he been on the court and in proper position. Not trying to be argumentative and yiur points as a whole are spot on

 

[orangezen]

This team really needed Marek

https://obeygiant.com/images/2008/10/dolemite.gif

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Not having the extra length from someone who is athletic and anticipates we’ll really does hurt. I mean it’s hard to believe that pass got through the defense and then Jimmy couldn’t get up and block the shot. Maybe it all goes down the same with Frank…I don’t know. Jim clearly thinks in a critical moment that junior is a better center than Frank. I am not surprised he feels this way. I believe he thinks his kids are better players and smarter players than probably anyone else on our team so I am not the least bit surprised it went down like it did

Not that shot blocking perfectly correlates with good rim protection, but Frankie blocks a shot every 75 possessions, and Jimmy blocks a shot every 500 possessions.

You can't interpret that stat to say Jimmy had a 1 in 500 chance at blocking a shot at the rim there, but if you wanted to make that case, even though it's an incorrect statistical statement, I wouldn't fight anyone on it.

 

[Scooch]

I don't think you're asking the right question, Alsacs -- because we've had several guys who've been effective in the pivot who've gotten it done in a lot of different ways. Shot blocking is great, but it's the defense of last resort -- and often is a sign that the defense has broken down, but gets bailed out by the center [or another secondary defender] getting a block and erasing the breakdown.

Arinze wasn't a great shot blocker -- but he was massively strong and controlled the paint in that way.

Keita wasn't a great shot blocker -- but he excelled at positioning, knew where he was supposed to be out there, and called things out so that his teammates got in the right position most of the time, too.

IMO, the weakness of the zone THIS year is twofold: our forwards are too slow, and once they are out of position, they don't have the speed / length to recover. That's why teams that make the extra pass get wide open look after wide open look, and why we fall back on having Jesse fly out to challenge baseline threes. Benny Williams would give us an athlete with all of the right attributes for the zone, but his readiness has been low, and he hasn't gotten much PT.

The second factor is that we are weak up top, with two minus-defenders in the backcourt. Think about how disruptive MCW and Triche were, or even Gbjinje / Cooney. They made it much more difficult for teams to drive, pass, etc. because they were big, athletic, and had good anticipation.

Absent those two factors, the zone looks like the proverbial tavern league. And relies more than ever on the one plus defender we have -- Jesse -- to be superman in terms of blocking shots.

All of this, plus it leaves Jesse to be involved in many more plays than is ideal, which gives him many more opportunities to pick up fouls. It’s a perfect storm of bad outcomes.