Somebody would have a really hard time convincing me

[SWC75]

I agree 100% on that. Smith is a bull dog. They need short passes to PTG in space (like a run).

Smith is averaging 11.4 yards per catch, Gulley 7.7.

 

[rrlbees]

When Nassib got the job as a sophomore and put up decent numbers, (after years of having poor QB numbers), I saw a problem in that he'd likely be the QB the rest of his career while talent piled up behind him. He is not a Marorne recruit. The Marrone recruits are the guys behind him. Yes, they are behind him, so they aren't exactly Cam Newton but you don't normally replace a competent starter just because the guy behind him might turn out to be better. Maybe you should. But I could see Nassib becoming a bottleneck that prevented the guys behind him from getting a chance and that may have happened. if so, we don't know how good or bad Marrone's QB recruiting has been because none of the guys he's recruited have played yet.

it would be interesting to know just how "open" the competition at quarterback has really been the last couple of years.

So you think Marrone doesn't play the best players thus reducing his chances of winning? And what does it matter that he is a Grob recruit?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[kcsu]

That the problems on offense are play calling or scheme. Sure there is some questionable calls, but I see an o line that got beat consistently yesterday and a 5th year qb that continues to force plays and gets careless with the football. To me Marrones biggest issue is recruiting and turnovers from a guy that should know better, if this is hacks fault I just don't buy it.

Marrone has failed by not recruiting a better qb if people want to lay blame and no doubt on special teams

are you fing kidding me IB have you watched us get stoned about 100 times inside the 10 yard line the last four games. What are you watching? The play calling has been a fing disaster. Give our O to any oc that we have played against and we win two more games possibly three and we blow out SB.

 

[Millhouse]

That the problems on offense are play calling or scheme. Sure there is some questionable calls, but I see an o line that got beat consistently yesterday and a 5th year qb that continues to force plays and gets careless with the football. To me Marrones biggest issue is recruiting and turnovers from a guy that should know better, if this is hacks fault I just don't buy it.

Marrone has failed by not recruiting a better qb if people want to lay blame and no doubt on special teams

i'm completely with you here. i think he's crazy to wait til his 5th year to play a qb he recruited out of high school but i'm not willing to fire him over it. that bought him time up front, but later on i think it means he better get it right. if he doesn't have good qb play in 2014, it might be time to find someone who can in 2015.

 

[SWC75]

So you think Marrone doesn't play the best players thus reducing his chances of winning? And what does it matter that he is a Grob recruit?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

The subject was that Nassib proves that Marrone can't recruit quarterbacks. And, yes, coaches don't necessarily open up quarterback competitions when they have a competent guy in that spot, even if someone behind him might turn out to be better. Todd Helton once started ahead of Peyton Manning at Tennessee.

 

[Millhouse]

The subject was that Nassib proves that Marrone can't recruit quarterbacks. And, yes, coaches don't necessarily open up quarterback competitions when they have a competent guy in that spot, even if someone behind him might turn out to be better. Todd Helton once started ahead of Peyton Manning at Tennessee.

you have a bad habit of sloppily misrepresenting what people say.

"Marrone has failed by not recruiting a better qb if people want to lay blame" does not mean "Nassib proves that Marrone can't recruit quarterbacks"

 

[SWC75]

you have a bad habit of sloppily misrepresenting what people say.

"Marrone has failed by not recruiting a better qb if people want to lay blame" does not mean "Nassib proves that Marrone can't recruit quarterbacks"

If Marrone's quarterbacks haven't been playing, then how do we know that's he failed to recruit a good one? "Because they aren't playing." But is it possible they aren't playing because Nassib isn't bad enough to demote so Marrone's recruits just aren't getting a chance?

 

[Millhouse]

If Marrone's quarterbacks haven't been playing, then how do we know that's he failed to recruit a good one? "Because they aren't playing." But is it possible they aren't playing because Nassib isn't bad enough to demote so Marrone's recruits just aren't getting a chance?

that's fine. argue that we don't know if he has failed to recruit a better qb. I'm think there are probably 2 guys on the team better right now, actually. can't know for sure until they play. I just don't think it's fair to equate someone thinking he's failed to recruit a better qb with someone thinking he can't recruit a better qb.

 

[Upstate]

He's also on track to break the INT record and probably total turnover record as well. We went all in on Nassib this season- his stats will be inflated but he also has that many more chances to up.

So, through your deduction, Brett Favre was also a bad QB, too, right?

 

[rrlbees]

The subject was that Nassib proves that Marrone can't recruit quarterbacks. And, yes, coaches don't necessarily open up quarterback competitions when they have a competent guy in that spot, even if someone behind him might turn out to be better. Todd Helton once started ahead of Peyton Manning at Tennessee.

That is not what you said at all in the post I responded to..

And maybe Helton was better at the time. Brady didn't start his whole career either and we beat the snot out of him. It happens.

 

[Scooch]

Agreed except I believe the real recruiting failure has been the inability to recruit any skill position difference makers.

I really wish more people would talk about this, because it's 1000% true.

Look at Saturday, say what you will about Nassib but he wasn't helped by Sales and Lemon having horrible drops in key spots. Neither of these guys would have cracked the starting lineup for us throughout the 90s.

We also rarely get meaningful YAC. Some of that is on Nassib, but a lot of it is on our receivers never having separation or speed.

Meanwhile all season there have been plays where Smith and PTG got 5-6 yards when backs like Mungro, Dee Brown, Kyle McIntosh, etc would have blasted through for 15-20.

We have ZERO difference makers at the skill positions.

4 years in and it's incredibly alarming.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I really wish more people would talk about this, because it's 1000% true.

Look at Saturday, say what you will about Nassib but he wasn't helped by Sales and Lemon having horrible drops in key spots. Neither of these guys would have cracked the starting lineup for us throughout the 90s.

We also rarely get meaningful YAC. Some of that is on Nassib, but a lot of it is on our receivers never having separation or speed.

Meanwhile all season there have been plays where Smith and PTG got 5-6 yards when backs like Mungro, Dee Brown, Kyle McIntosh, etc would have blasted through for 15-20.

We have ZERO difference makers at the skill positions.

4 years in and it's incredibly alarming.

I remember that we recruited Brandon Coleman, and when we didn't get him people said it was no big deal.

That was the line when other big name recruits wouldn't pick us, because one guy doesn't make or break a class.

Add up enough of those "one guys" though and you miss out on some talent.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

The thing I don't get is we're not winning. Does it matter if we're not winning with Nassib? Can we see what Broyld, or Hunt, can do?

This is it in a nutshell to me. I get that there will be the typically "mutiny on the bounty" posts (aka "the fastest way to lose a team...") and I am not actually advocating for any qb over Nassib per se. If Nassib is the best, he should play. But GO made a snide remark in the Oregon State thread about Marrone not simply chasing wins. To me, that is exactly what he has been doing throughout his tenure, and it is apparent in the results we are getting today:

• Lack of offensive identity;
• Failure to develop play makers;
• Undersized on defense;
• Craptastic specials (where are the best players - fear of injuries);
• Blowing the redshirts of players like Lyn, Reddish, Bromley, Davis, Gulley, Ameen-Moore, Broyld, etc.

I think Marrone came in with counterproductive philosophies - win now and develop for the future. Those simply werent options with the schemes and personnel in place. If he really wanted to develop, he would have spent three seasons slogging out wins using marginal athletes, and using the best young athletes just sparingly enough to never see a real contribution, ruining redshirts in the process. The grand result is what you have now - a ton of ??????????????????????????????????????

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I really wish more people would talk about this, because it's 1000% true.

Look at Saturday, say what you will about Nassib but he wasn't helped by Sales and Lemon having horrible drops in key spots. Neither of these guys would have cracked the starting lineup for us throughout the 90s.

We also rarely get meaningful YAC. Some of that is on Nassib, but a lot of it is on our receivers never having separation or speed.

Meanwhile all season there have been plays where Smith and PTG got 5-6 yards when backs like Mungro, Dee Brown, Kyle McIntosh, etc would have blasted through for 15-20.

We have ZERO difference makers at the skill positions.

4 years in and it's incredibly alarming.

I disagree to an extent. Certainly the 90's SU teams had more talent then the current team. But, I think people make way too much of this. Other than USC, Syracuse hasnt played a team with better athletes top-bottom at the skill positions (and that includes PITT and Rutgers that have been out-recruiting SU for the bast 8 years or so). At least not clear-cut talent differentials.
Sales and West were legit recruits with many high BCS offers (and i think are pretty solid college receivers). Lemon has certainly made the most of his potential, which is what you need at programs like SU (see Bailey, Antwon, as well). Gulley had legit offers and was a play-maker out of Ohio. Smith, who i dont like, had a Wisconsin offer (running back U these days), and Ameen-Moore had numerous BCS level offers. Wales and the young TEs all had solid offers.

Really, the glaring position is QB, and having a 5th year player starting should atone for the lack of recruiting hype.

I guess, what I am trying to say is that it would be nice to have more game breakers, but i dont think the current skill guys are the root of the problem.

 

[Millhouse]

I really wish more people would talk about this, because it's 1000% true.

Look at Saturday, say what you will about Nassib but he wasn't helped by Sales and Lemon having horrible drops in key spots. Neither of these guys would have cracked the starting lineup for us throughout the 90s.

We also rarely get meaningful YAC. Some of that is on Nassib, but a lot of it is on our receivers never having separation or speed.

Meanwhile all season there have been plays where Smith and PTG got 5-6 yards when backs like Mungro, Dee Brown, Kyle McIntosh, etc would have blasted through for 15-20.

We have ZERO difference makers at the skill positions.

4 years in and it's incredibly alarming.

i'm a broken record and I don't care. it's nassib. our receivers don't get separation because no one thinks we'll ever throw it deep. usain bolt isn't going to get that much separation from kennies 2 pennies in half a second

 

[SWC75]

That is not what you said at all in the post I responded to..

And maybe Helton was better at the time. Brady didn't start his whole career either and we beat the snot out of him. It happens.

What I said in the post you responded to:

When Nassib got the job as a sophomore and put up decent numbers, (after years of having poor QB numbers), I saw a problem in that he'd likely be the QB the rest of his career while talent piled up behind him. He is not a Marorne recruit. The Marrone recruits are the guys behind him. Yes, they are behind him, so they aren't exactly Cam Newton but you don't normally replace a competent starter just because the guy behind him might turn out to be better. Maybe you should. But I could see Nassib becoming a bottleneck that prevented the guys behind him from getting a chance and that may have happened. if so, we don't know how good or bad Marrone's QB recruiting has been because none of the guys he's recruited have played yet.

it would be interesting to know just how "open" the competition at quarterback has really been the last couple of years.

What I said in the post where I didn't say what I said in the post you responded to:

The subject was that Nassib proves that Marrone can't recruit quarterbacks. And, yes, coaches don't necessarily open up quarterback competitions when they have a competent guy in that spot, even if someone behind him might turn out to be better. Todd Helton once started ahead of Peyton Manning at Tennessee.


I fail to see a contradiction there. By the way Helton got injured after three games and Manning became the starter for the rest of his career. Yes, he was better.​

 

[OttoMets]

I really wish more people would talk about this, because it's 1000% true.

Look at Saturday, say what you will about Nassib but he wasn't helped by Sales and Lemon having horrible drops in key spots. Neither of these guys would have cracked the starting lineup for us throughout the 90s.

We also rarely get meaningful YAC. Some of that is on Nassib, but a lot of it is on our receivers never having separation or speed.

Meanwhile all season there have been plays where Smith and PTG got 5-6 yards when backs like Mungro, Dee Brown, Kyle McIntosh, etc would have blasted through for 15-20.

We have ZERO difference makers at the skill positions.

4 years in and it's incredibly alarming.

Smith had a first-half run that got us inside the ten (maybe down to around the five). A Rutgers defender tracked him down. That run would have been a touchdown for every Syracuse first-string tailback from about 1987 to 2004.

And regarding the receivers: yes. I don't know that neither would have started through the '90s, but it's clear that that position is hurting the team. People are quicker to bash Nassib (who's earned a bit of bashing); all we hear is that Sales is a gamer. Gamer? Please. A receiver who never gets separation, blocks half-heartedly, and drops a pass per game isn't a gamer, he's a weak link.

Hate to second-guess the coaches on most things, but why did Flemming lose four games with an injury, then appear on player participation for two games with no involvement in the offense? He supposedly had a good summer. If he can contribute, use him. If he can't, use the redshirt.

 

[Millhouse]

Smith had a first-half run that got us inside the ten (maybe down to around the five). A Rutgers defender tracked him down. That run would have been a touchdown for every Syracuse first-string tailback from about 1987 to 2004.

And regarding the receivers: yes. I don't know that neither would have started through the '90s, but it's clear that that position is hurting the team. People are quicker to bash Nassib (who's earned a bit of bashing); all we hear is that Sales is a gamer. Gamer? Please. A receiver who never gets separation, blocks half-heartedly, and drops a pass per game isn't a gamer, he's a weak link.

Hate to second-guess the coaches on most things, but why did Flemming lose four games with an injury, then appear on player participation for two games with no involvement in the offense? He supposedly had a good summer. If he can contribute, use him. If he can't, use the redshirt.

give me a break about separation.

how open do people expect receivers to get?

guy is on pace for a really good year. we don't have a rating formula for WR but generally, i think people go too crazy over drops.