Spring Practice Day #3: Thurs. March 8, 2018

[OttoMets]

And I'm sure you make this comment based on your own wealth of training and extensive editing experience.

Yeah. I did. Thanks for the snark, though. Ditto for the 'like' from the usual suspect.

 

[TexanMark]

Not "just hiring the kids", but hiring the kids that have difficulty securing a similar position in another market.

Actually Syracuse.com punches above their weight class. High market penetration and tons of out of market clicks

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[billsin01]

It’s death by a thousand cuts - not one big thing. But make no mistake - it all adds up to “not great”... and maybe that’s fine. Maybe that’s life as a 2nd tier program in a small market.

But it is 100% wanting.

(Plus - many of us remember coverage prior to dumping salary and hiring the kids)

I don't think there's any question that these guys were green when they were thrown into this and that's based on budgets at newspapers -- which by the way comes back to the issues with the general public not actually wanting to pay for information but having an insatiable thirst for any and all information. But I digress ...

What I will say is that they seem much improved and seem to provide solid info. I was a reporter for 9 nine years and if I was covering this program I'm pretty sure people would hate my coverage b/c, while I love looking for a positive angle, most of what has gone on here since McNabb's graduation falls into one of two categories -- bad or promising but unproven. Nice moments during the Marrone era and it feels like Dino has things headed in the right direction, but we haven't been a program approaching any sort of sustained success for a looooonnnnngggg time. If Dino gets to 6 wins this year, there will be more positive coverage and greater expectations going forward.

Also, the most important thing to note here is this: If you are a journalist covering this program you have the unenviable task of basically covering a program that wants zero coverage. And, you're doing it in an era where you are supposed to be giving insight and developing interesting stories on basically a daily basis (at least if you include recruiting and spring practice, etc.).

Bottom line: It's tough to say -- give us great information when there is basically a massive wall built around the entire program. It's tough to say give us positive stories when the bottom line is not only that cuse football has basically sucked for going on 20 years, but also in a world of college football where the economics and geography make it tough to envision a scenario where we are annually a top-25ish team.

 

[CA Monk]

Why do I love these photos of the "troops" being fed?
Alright. Identify please. I see (L to R) Scoop, Carl Jones, then ?, Melifonwu, then ? and then maybe Ryan Seacrest?

 

[OttoMets]

I don't think there's any question that these guys were green when they were thrown into this and that's based on budgets at newspapers -- which by the way comes back to the issues with the general public not actually wanting to pay for information but having an insatiable thirst for any and all information. But I digress ...

What I will say is that they seem much improved and seem to provide solid info. I was a reporter for 9 nine years and if I was covering this program I'm pretty sure people would hate my coverage b/c, while I love looking for a positive angle, most of what has gone on here since McNabb's graduation falls into one of two categories -- bad or promising but unproven. Nice moments during the Marrone era and it feels like Dino has things headed in the right direction, but we haven't been a program approaching any sort of sustained success for a looooonnnnngggg time. If Dino gets to 6 wins this year, there will be more positive coverage and greater expectations going forward.

Also, the most important thing to note here is this: If you are a journalist covering this program you have the unenviable task of basically covering a program that wants zero coverage. And, you're doing it in an era where you are supposed to be giving insight and developing interesting stories on basically a daily basis (at least if you include recruiting and spring practice, etc.).

Bottom line: It's tough to say -- give us great information when there is basically a massive wall built around the entire program. It's tough to say give us positive stories when the bottom line is not only that cuse football has basically sucked for going on 20 years, but also in a world of college football where the economics and geography make it tough to envision a scenario where we are annually a top-25ish team.

I always appreciate the insight from someone who knows what he's talking about. And I agree that the challenges these writers face are too often overlooked. That said, this doesn't account for the basic slip-ups regarding traditional standards of journalism (e.g., not editorializing). Maybe they're following orders and more of the blame should be placed higher up the food chain. But the end result that we see is less-than-optimal work.

 

[PhatOrange]

Stephen Bailey would be able to work in any other market. He's a very good beat writer.

The issue here is the people that believe a beat writer's job is to be a "fan of the team" and only provide positive coverage. Bailey has been pretty balanced with his coverage of the program.

that's not the issue for me

 

[billsin01]

I always appreciate the insight from someone who knows what he's talking about. And I agree that the challenges these writers face are too often overlooked. That said, this doesn't account for the basic slip-ups regarding traditional standards of journalism (e.g., not editorializing). Maybe they're following orders and more of the blame should be placed higher up the food chain. But the end result that we see is less-than-optimal work.

Yeah, if I'm honest I don't read enough of the actual coverage to have a truly informed opinion on it. From what I see, though, I don't get the impression they are overly opinionated. The comment above about Dungey not being sharp, for example, seems like a pretty logical observation of a senior quarterback who has had a bit of an issue with accuracy in his career, specifically last year. Not really knocking Dungey b/c there were other factors at play, but in this offense 60% probably needs to be the baseline and really a talented veteran should be working at 65%. TDs are also a bit of question b/c it speaks to the lack of big plays (again, other factors at play) as well as potentially not quite being precise enough in the red zone to finish off the drive.

But, regardless, my view of that comment is that Dungey's accuracy in this system will be a storyline and the reporter who is covering the team probably needs to acknowledge it without going crazy over it. Who knows, it's hard to say, but beat writers are there every day, attempting to cover every aspect of the team. Their opinion should probably count for something.

 

[CuseLegacy]

There is an ignore button feature. I suggest some of you should use it.

 

[leftytg]

another issue is that some on this board see the program through darkly tinted orange glasses. That's well and fine and even appropriate for being a fan. To each their own. The issue comes when they adopt the orange tinted point of view as the neutral, unbiased truth and thus view any deviation of that as negative coverage or unfair pessimism. Things would be a whole lot smoother if there could be room for positive takes and negative takes - with the understanding that there are underlying truths in both - and avoid the questioning of a person's character or motives for not aligning with your personal way of viewing things.

 

[Orijinal]

Y'all should see what the coverage is for other teams in the conference. You would be begging for the coverage that the PS provides.

Honestly

 

[sufandu]

As the thread continues to get hijacked...IMO Mink and Bailey are fine. They seem dedicated and informed while interjecting a modicum of welcomed and unwelcomed opinions. And while it's true they don't possess the athletic street cred of Whigham, they are on the outside looking in whereas JW is a former member of the football fraternity and can access areas Mink and Bailey aren't easily privy to. JW seems more like an advocate of the program (as one might expect) with keen insights, whereas Mink and Bailey are dutiful reporters, but in a slightly more journalistic and adversarial role. I think they both do good jobs but in different ways.
Truth be told, who doesn't scour this board and check Syracuse.com for the latest news on our beloved Orangemen?

It's not so much how they compare to JW, it's how they compare to former superior beat writers. He was going to leave at some point, but forcing Donnie Webb out when they did led to inferior football coverage.

 

[Chip]

There is an ignore button feature. I suggest some of you should use it.

I think those guys were thrown into a tough spot. Donnie and Dave had been doing this for a long time, and were very good at it. It's a tough act to follow. Could they be better? Sure. They mess things up.

These guys aren't making big bucks to work in a small market covering a college football team that gets 50% capacity for games. I'm sure they read this board, why wouldn't they. It has to be a little disheartening to read some of the commentary. They're not national guys, who can take it (or better be able to).

I think they're fine, I don't really see that big of agendas with them, but that's just me.

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[Killdozer]

Good...back on topic.

 

[PhatOrange]

Sharod Johnson. Can’t say it enough

 

[TheCusian]

Absolutely right. There are too many who confuse the role of a beat writer with that of the sports information director, marketing staff, athletic department staff, etc.

We have people on payroll to do the things that some of the ill-informed expect the beat writers to be doing.

Naw. You’re misunderstanding empathy. It’s not bias or sugar-coating hard truths. It’s not a cheerleader. It’s understanding how a die hard fan will take bad news and writing with that in mind.

I used to read the old reporters and think “this guy gets me” - I read these guys and think “they must hate their jobs”...

 

[TheCusian]

I don't think there's any question that these guys were green when they were thrown into this and that's based on budgets at newspapers -- which by the way comes back to the issues with the general public not actually wanting to pay for information but having an insatiable thirst for any and all information. But I digress ...

What I will say is that they seem much improved and seem to provide solid info. I was a reporter for 9 nine years and if I was covering this program I'm pretty sure people would hate my coverage b/c, while I love looking for a positive angle, most of what has gone on here since McNabb's graduation falls into one of two categories -- bad or promising but unproven. Nice moments during the Marrone era and it feels like Dino has things headed in the right direction, but we haven't been a program approaching any sort of sustained success for a looooonnnnngggg time. If Dino gets to 6 wins this year, there will be more positive coverage and greater expectations going forward.

Also, the most important thing to note here is this: If you are a journalist covering this program you have the unenviable task of basically covering a program that wants zero coverage. And, you're doing it in an era where you are supposed to be giving insight and developing interesting stories on basically a daily basis (at least if you include recruiting and spring practice, etc.).

Bottom line: It's tough to say -- give us great information when there is basically a massive wall built around the entire program. It's tough to say give us positive stories when the bottom line is not only that cuse football has basically sucked for going on 20 years, but also in a world of college football where the economics and geography make it tough to envision a scenario where we are annually a top-25ish team.

Thanks for the insiders view. Very helpful.

The one thing I wish they’d get better at is griping and sarcasm on twitter. It’s a public forum.

 

[hungrychuck]

Naw. You’re misunderstanding empathy. It’s not bias or sugar-coating hard truths. It’s not a cheerleader. It’s understanding how a die hard fan will take bad news and writing with that in mind.

I used to read the old reporters and think “this guy gets me” - I read these guys and think “they must hate their jobs”...

Well, we are different then.

The last thing in the world I care about is whether the beat writers "get me."

I care about them being informative, objective, insightful, comprehensive, timely and, when possible, entertaining.

I care about them understanding that their jobs do not begin at the start of summer practices and end with the final football game. I care about them getting that recruiting is a coverage area in itself, and I'm happy when they pursue it energetically and not reluctantly, as unfortunately had too often been the case with the old-timers.

I have absolutely no idea why they should care how I feel about receiving bad news. It is what it is.

 

[SWC75]

Is that a nickname or an autocorrect. Because if a nickname, I dig it.

Might just use it regardless of how you answer.

He shows good judgement.

 

[OrangeAl]

Well, we are different then.

The last thing in the world I care about is whether the beat writers "get me."

I care about them being informative, objective, insightful, comprehensive, timely and, when possible, entertaining.

I care about them understanding that their jobs do not begin at the start of summer practices and end with the final football game. I care about them getting that recruiting is a coverage area in itself, and I'm happy when they pursue it energetically and not reluctantly, as unfortunately had too often been the case with the old-timers.

I have absolutely no idea why they should care how I feel about receiving bad news. It is what it is.

Why should they care about how their audience feels? Probably because we're the revenue stream for their employer.
Every writer should understand who the reader is. We want to know the inside scoop on our favorite team - why things are happening the way they are.
We want good investigative reporting, with good questions asked of the right people. But we don't want to think the writer is our adversary.

 

[dasher]

It's not so much how they compare to JW, it's how they compare to former superior beat writers. He was going to leave at some point, but forcing Donnie Webb out when they did led to inferior football coverage.

That was on a former coach. Not the paper.