Stability has been a strength of the program but we need some change to how we play

[Alsacs]

We can’t stay stagnant and be 100% zone, 100% ISO on offense, mix in press when we struggle.

Jim Boeheim is going nowhere.
However if he won’t change the talent alone won’t get us where we want.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing when it isn’t working.
Mike Hopkins is showing you can mix things up.

 

[longislandcuse]

We will never out-recruit Duke so we can't just bank on recruiting talent because we don't cultivate talent, somehow our guys ranked 15-40 go pro at an absurd rate so there goes that plan.

We need to have a "thing" and im cool if that "thing" is the zone. I like that we recruit length so the zone is a beast. I get it.. but, you also need ball players and shooters so while freak measurables are great and all, you also need to put the ball in the basket.

-Still play zone...just not all the time.

-Still recruit for the zone.. just not all the time.

-Coach offense and play more than 7 people.

 

[Bayside44]

When we have the talent the zone is a huge help in March when teams not familiar with us look befuddled in how to attack it (unless they go nuts shooting over it from 27 feet).

 

[NineOneSeven]

When we have the talent the zone is a huge help in March when teams not familiar with us look befuddled in how to attack it (unless they go nuts shooting over it from 27 feet).

The zone is fine this year. Defense overall has been very good. I would give up some defensive efficiency for better offense (whatever formula makes that happen). You know what that sounds like? It sounds like our football team two years ago.

 

[Bayside44]

The zone is fine this year. Defense overall has been very good. I would give up some defensive efficiency for better offense (whatever formula makes that happen). You know what that sounds like? It sounds like our football team two years ago.

Ha - some of these posts do remind me of football posts. Answer tends to be the same (talent).

 

[Alsacs]

When we have the talent the zone is a huge help in March when teams not familiar with us look befuddled in how to attack it (unless they go nuts shooting over it from 27 feet).

Talent alone isn’t the problem.
The talent in 2013 was great and the offense was atrocious.
That team’s D got them to the Final Four and if they had a decent offense they win it all.
We couldn’t run a halfcourt offense when we had MCW/Triche/Fair/Southerland and Keita/Rak and Grant.

 

[Bayside44]

Talent alone isn’t the problem.
The talent in 2013 was great and the offense was atrocious.
That team’s D got them to the Final Four and if they had a decent offense they win it all.
We couldn’t run a halfcourt offense when we had MCW/Triche/Fair/Southerland and Keita/Rak and Grant.

Southerland couldn't hit the side of a building that game.

Considering how bad it was we were a possession and a horrible call away.

 

[Alsacs]

Southerland couldn't hit the side of a building that game.

Considering how bad it was we were a possession and a horrible call away.

We scored 62 points against Pitt in the BET Quaterfinals
58 in OT against Georgetown in the BET Semis.
61 against Louisville in the BET final.
66 against Cal in the 2nd round.
61 against Indiana
55 against Marquette
58 against Michigan
That isn’t a Southerland problem.
Our offense was atrocious and we had talent.

 

[stuckinbig11]

we need players that don't leave early and give us a bare cupboard to work with

 

[RF2044]

There's nothing wrong with stability. But sometimes bringing in coaches from outside the program / a fresh way of doing things is good for the staff. Worked out well with Troy Weaver, and Rob Murphy, too.

For having a staff comprised entirely of guards, our guard play is inexplicably suspect.

 

[Ryand877]

We scored 62 points against Pitt in the BET Quaterfinals
58 in OT against Georgetown in the BET Semis.
61 against Louisville in the BET final.
66 against Cal in the 2nd round.
61 against Indiana
55 against Marquette
58 against Michigan
That isn’t a Southerland problem.
Our offense was atrocious and we had talent.

At least the 61 in the BET final was against ineligible players. We may have lost that game, but Louisville didn't win!
Totally agree, just trying to add some humor.

 

[br801]

Southerland couldn't hit the side of a building that game.

Considering how bad it was we were a possession and a horrible call away.

MCW was invisible offensively that day too.

 

[raf4488]

The answer is talent and it always has been. It isn’t some coincidence that NCAA sanctions coincided with our fall from top 10 program to annual bubble team. I think we actually do have good players, but their skillsets do not complement each other on offense.

I’d like to know the offensive system that could be implemented where this team’s personnel would be successful. I don’t think JB runs the exact same stuff on offense every year; last year we clearly spread the floor more because we had multiple shooters. Our offense was productive.

This year we have a point guard that struggles against smaller, quicker defenders that pressure the ball. We have 3 healthy players that would even think of attempting a perimeter shot, and not one player has made 35% of their three point attempts. If we played like Purdue instead, we’d have more possessions but our defense would suffer and we would still miss a ton of shots.

I don’t think there’s a coach in the country that could get this team to 70 PPG in ACC play and win more than 7 league games.

 

[Alsacs]

There's nothing wrong with stability. But sometimes bringing in coaches from outside the program / a fresh way of doing things is good for the staff. Worked out well with Troy Weaver, and Rob Murphy, too.

For having a staff comprised entirely of guards, our guard play is inexplicably suspect.

I think stability has been a strength.
I just think it’s been stagnant and we haven’t changed things up.
Allen Griffin has been good.
I wanted a bigger name but he has been great in recruiting.

 

[Bayside44]

We scored 62 points against Pitt in the BET Quaterfinals
58 in OT against Georgetown in the BET Semis.
61 against Louisville in the BET final.
66 against Cal in the 2nd round.
61 against Indiana
55 against Marquette
58 against Michigan
That isn’t a Southerland problem.
Our offense was atrocious and we had talent.

The 2 NBA guys couldn’t shoot. The rest were nice players but let’s not get crazy about it. Next to what we have now they look like world beaters.

 

[Bayside44]

We scored 62 points against Pitt in the BET Quaterfinals
58 in OT against Georgetown in the BET Semis.
61 against Louisville in the BET final.
66 against Cal in the 2nd round.
61 against Indiana
55 against Marquette
58 against Michigan
That isn’t a Southerland problem.
Our offense was atrocious and we had talent.

We were also 5-2 in those games and crushed a lot of our opponents (not gonna look up every game but was at the dc ones and they weren’t competitive)

 

[FrancoPizza]

When we have the talent the zone is a huge help in March when teams not familiar with us look befuddled in how to attack it (unless they go nuts shooting over it from 27 feet).

This argument is getting a bit tired. Let’s just ignore the fact that this program is in deep doo doo because golly we might confuse a couple teams when we’re a 10 seed.

 

[Bayside44]

This argument is getting a bit tired. Let’s just ignore the fact that this program is in deep doo doo because golly we might confuse a couple teams when we’re a 10 seed.

We went to 2 final fours in the last 5 seasons in the middle of a probation cloud.

 

[Alsacs]

We were also 5-2 in those games and crushed a lot of our opponents (not gonna look up every game but was at the dc ones and they weren’t competitive)

It’s not worth debating.
We won those games because the zone was crazy good.
MCW/Triche were long guards and Rak/Keita in the middle were great.

The offense was why those games were close outside of the Marquette game.

 

[Orangtiz]

We went to 2 final fours in the last 5 seasons in the middle of a probation cloud.

One of them greatly aided by a massive upset. I get it, you can only play the team that you're matched-up against, but at a certain point this final four argument is getting old. If that run to the final four in 2016 was such a great success, then why hasn't the program built off of that success at all? Why is it that we consistently lose to bottom dweller ACC teams. Since joining the ACC Syracuse is 16-24 on the road. That is not going to get it done. That number needs to be .500 or better.

 

[RF2044]

It’s not worth debating.
We won those games because the zone was crazy good.
MCW/Triche were long guards and Rak/Keita in the middle were great.

The offense was why those games were close outside of the Marquette game.

That 2013 final four team was up and down all year. People might not remember, but we were rated very highly -- possibly even as high as #2 [from memory] heading into January. We had Villanova on the ropes at their place, and pissed away a 6 point lead with under 20 seconds to go, they sent it to OT and then edged us out. Lost the next game to pitt, and the free fall was on. Then, this group had the huge February swoon where we lost several games, and couldn't get it together offensively.

Triche had a pretty good year, but he went from being a pretty decent three point shooter to hitting a paltry 29% from three his senior season. Southerland could get hot, but was up and down like a yo-yo -- some games he was nearly invisible. MCW couldn't throw the ball in the ocean. Only CJ seemed was a consistent offensive threat -- and he probably had one of the best seasons overall as any Syracuse player in recent history [led the team in scoring, FG%, FT%, rebounding, and three point %, despite being the third guy on offense and having no set plays run for him].

By the postseason, Triche and MCW started to step up. Both became dialed in offensively, and used their size to dominate opponents on both sides of the ball. Triche had been kind of sloppy handling the ball that year, but suddenly became the type of strong, versatile guy who could get into the lane and score over, around, and through people, and began hitting shots that just hadn't dropped all year long. Since college basketball is so guard driven, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that our final four run was predicated upon our starting backcourt peaking at the right time.

Against Michigan, MCW and Southerland were both awful. MCW seemed out of synch, because he was playing Trey Burke and seemed to take it as a personal challenge. Southerland got blocked early in the game on what should have been a transition dunk, and then didn't score until there were literally 90 seconds in the game. I don't think you can assign blame to individual players, but to get to the championship game, we sure needed a lot more from those two. ESPECIALLY in a close game that we could easily have won.

Frustrating.

 

[Bayside44]

It’s not worth debating.
We won those games because the zone was crazy good.
MCW/Triche were long guards and Rak/Keita in the middle were great.

The offense was why those games were close outside of the Marquette game.

The Indiana game wasn't close. At all. MCW also was posting up their guards (VO?). They had no shot. Not sure what you want.

 

[Bayside44]

One of them greatly aided by a massive upset. I get it, you can only play the team that you're matched-up against, but at a certain point this final four argument is getting old. If that run to the final four in 2016 was such a great success, then why hasn't the program built off of that success at all? Why is it that we consistently lose to bottom dweller ACC teams. Since joining the ACC Syracuse is 16-24 on the road. That is not going to get it done. That number needs to be .500 or better.

That run launched our best guy into the NBA a year before we thought possible.

The ACC isn't any incarnation of whatever Big East people like to remember. No gimmes here.

Separate case but I think JB really flubbed who played when and where in the start of last season. Put us in a terrible hole.

 

[Alsacs]

That 2013 final four team was up and down all year. People might not remember, but we were rated very highly -- possibly even as high as #2 [from memory] heading into January. We had Villanova on the ropes at their place, and pissed away a 6 point lead with under 20 seconds to go, they sent it to OT and then edged us out. Lost the next game to pitt, and the free fall was on. Then, this group had the huge February swoon where we lost several games, and couldn't get it together offensively.

Triche had a pretty good year, but he went from being a pretty decent three point shooter to hitting a paltry 29% from three his senior season. Southerland could get hot, but was up and down like a yo-yo -- some games he was nearly invisible. MCW couldn't throw the ball in the ocean. Only CJ seemed was a consistent offensive threat -- and he probably had one of the best seasons overall as any Syracuse player in recent history [led the team in scoring, FG%, FT%, rebounding, and three point %, despite being the third guy on offense and having no set plays run for him].

By the postseason, Triche and MCW started to step up. Both became dialed in offensively, and used their size to dominate opponents on both sides of the ball. Triche had been kind of sloppy handling the ball that year, but suddenly became the type of strong, versatile guy who could get into the lane and score over, around, and through people, and began hitting shots that just hadn't dropped all year long. Since college basketball is so guard driven, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that our final four run was predicated upon our starting backcourt peaking at the right time.

Against Michigan, MCW and Southerland were both awful. MCW seemed out of synch, because he was playing Trey Burke and seemed to take it as a personal challenge. Southerland got blocked early in the game on what should have been a transition dunk, and then didn't score until there were literally 90 seconds in the game. I don't think you can assign blame to individual players, but to get to the championship game, we sure needed a lot more from those two. ESPECIALLY in a close game that we could easily have won.

Frustrating.

2013 was a great team.
They were #3 when they played Temple at MSG.
It was a really tough Big East that year.
They were top 20 the whole year.

They were great defensively but not good offensively even with the talent we had.
Georgetown we played 3 low scoring games against and beat them at the BET.

The team had Jeremi Grant and Keita on the bench and still couldn’t execute in the halfcourt.
It just frustrates as that D was NC good but the offense wasn’t good.

 

[Alsacs]

The Indiana game wasn't close. At all. MCW also was posting up their guards (VO?). They had no shot. Not sure what you want.

Our defense was elite.
The offense being mediocre kept that game in low double digits.
That game was also one of MCW’s best offensive games.

It’s okay to admit that offense should have been better. With the talent we had it should have been but it was all ISO, Fair midrange, Southerland 3 point shooting.
We didn’t run sets.