Still scratching my head over NFL combine showings

[orangeintheacc]

Anyone else concerned about the apparent lack of strength and mobility shown by the SU guys that went to the combine? They all graded poorly (with the possible exception of Jones), but what really stood out was Tiller's 16 BP reps and Thomas's 12. Provo didn't lift and Jones had a pedestrian 22. My son and I were near the field for the Cincy game last fall and were surprised at how much more ripped and bigger they looked than our guys. Are we getting anything done in the weightroom? I have my doubts.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Anyone else concerned about the apparent lack of strength and mobility shown by the SU guys that went to the combine? They all graded poorly (with the possible exception of Jones), but what really stood out was Tiller's 16 BP reps and Thomas's 12. Provo didn't lift and Jones had a pedestrian 22. My son and I were near the field for the Cincy game last fall and were surprised at how much more ripped and bigger they looked than our guys. Are we getting anything done in the weightroom? I have my doubts.

Silk purse/sow's ear.

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[Aweart23]

Anyone else concerned about the apparent lack of strength and mobility shown by the SU guys that went to the combine? They all graded poorly (with the possible exception of Jones), but what really stood out was Tiller's 16 BP reps and Thomas's 12. Provo didn't lift and Jones had a pedestrian 22. My son and I were near the field for the Cincy game last fall and were surprised at how much more ripped and bigger they looked than our guys. Are we getting anything done in the weightroom? I have my doubts.

I am pretty sure Provo was playing with a shoulder injury, I suspect that might have something to do with him not lifting...

 

[007]

Anyone else concerned about the apparent lack of strength and mobility shown by the SU guys that went to the combine? They all graded poorly (with the possible exception of Jones), but what really stood out was Tiller's 16 BP reps and Thomas's 12. Provo didn't lift and Jones had a pedestrian 22. My son and I were near the field for the Cincy game last fall and were surprised at how much more ripped and bigger they looked than our guys. Are we getting anything done in the weightroom? I have my doubts.

Ryan Bartholomew and Delone Carter seemed to do "ok" in the BP at the Combine.

It might be more a function of the player rather than the system. Unfortunately, we have not had many players to judge at the combine in recent history.

To be honest, I have wondered about the number of season ending injuries we have had and any possible correlation to the S&P program used at SU.

 

[All4SU]

Ryan Bartholomew and Delone Carter seemed to do "ok" in the BP at the Combine.

It might be more a function of the player rather than the system. Unfortunately, we have not had many players to judge at the combine in recent history.

To be honest, I have wondered about the number of season ending injuries we have had and any possible correlation to the S&P program used at SU.

This. I don't think Tiller is exactly a workout warrior, and Provo has been hurt from day 1.

 

[orangeintheacc]

Ryan Bartholomew and Delone Carter seemed to do "ok" in the BP at the Combine.

It might be more a function of the player rather than the system. Unfortunately, we have not had many players to judge at the combine in recent history.

To be honest, I have wondered about the number of season ending injuries we have had and any possible correlation to the S&P program used at SU.

Ryan Bartholomew and Delone Carter seemed to do "ok" in the BP at the Combine.

It might be more a function of the player rather than the system. Unfortunately, we have not had many players to judge at the combine in recent history.

To be honest, I have wondered about the number of season ending injuries we have had and any possible correlation to the S&P program used at SU.

I understand SU hasn't had alot of guys at the combine...I was more comparing them to their peers at the same positions. The bench press numbers we are getting are something alot of high school seniors can do. I think you may be right about the number and types of injuries our players get being possibly related to the S & C program. Every team gets injuries, but we seem to get more than our share.

 

[qdawgg]

I understand SU hasn't had alot of guys at the combine...I was more comparing them to their peers at the same positions. The bench press numbers we are getting are something alot of high school seniors can do. I think you may be right about the number and types of injuries our players get being possibly related to the S & C program. Every team gets injuries, but we seem to get more than our share.

Can you please provide some numbers for the amount of H.S. students that are putting up 225 - 12 + times? Other than just guys that weigh 300+ and are 5 star recruits. I didn't realize that this was common in H.S. students.

 

[007]

I understand SU hasn't had alot of guys at the combine...I was more comparing them to their peers at the same positions. The bench press numbers we are getting are something alot of high school seniors can do. I think you may be right about the number and types of injuries our players get being possibly related to the S & C program. Every team gets injuries, but we seem to get more than our share.

No problem, I understood you were making a relative comparison.

For me, I suspect the performance at the recent Combine is more of an indictment of the quality of size, strength, and speed SU has been able to recruit over the last several years.

A 4.74 in the 40 from unquestionably the best play maker in SU's secondary the last 2 years speaks volumes to the coaching vs. talent debate, IMO.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Can you please provide some numbers for the amount of H.S. students that are putting up 225 - 12 + times? Other than just guys that weigh 300+ and are 5 star recruits. I didn't realize that this was common in H.S. students.

Maybe not 12+ times, but it's not uncommon for decent HS programs to have a number of kids who can put up 225. My team, which was pretty bad my junior and senior years, probably had 15-20 guys who could lift 225 without an issue over my four years, and our D1 turnout was nothing special- 1 Penn State, 2 UMass, 1 Temple, a few other FCS kids


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[ImperialOrange]

A 4.74 in the 40 from unquestionably the best play maker in SU's secondary the last 2 years speaks volumes to the coaching vs. talent debate, IMO.

Would be curious to know what it wouldve been if he had stayed with the team. He's faster than that but had sloppy form that couldve been tightened up had he been with someone that gets kids ready for the combine... like say Rob Moore

 

[ImperialOrange]

Maybe not 12+ times, but it's not uncommon for decent HS programs to have a number of kids who can put up 225. My team, which was pretty bad my junior and senior years, probably had 15-20 guys who could lift 225 without an issue over my four years, and our D1 turnout was nothing special- 1 Penn State, 2 UMass, 1 Temple, a few other FCS kids


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Agreed, it's nothing special and if you focus on it for 3-6 months you can see big gains. I was about 160 @ 6'3 in HS and started lifting when I was 19. Went from repping plates to 185 and could do 225 at least 4 times (more with a spotter) in 6 months time and I only weighed 185 at that point.

Long arms hurt but you'd like to see Tiller get at least 20 reps like Chan did.

 

[rrlbees]

Ryan Bartholomew and Delone Carter seemed to do "ok" in the BP at the Combine.

But they were Grob guys.

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[qdawgg]

I could also do 225 (in college), I'm only 5'6 and was 155lbs. I was also working on max reps. Putting up 225 4 - 6 times in H.S. isn't what I was questioning, I was questioning the idea that many H.S. football players can put up 225 x 12 or more.

I'm also not saying that the 225 numbers are good because they aren't but the poster was trying to say that they were doing the equivalent of what many H.S. kids are doing and that is not even close to true. HUGE difference between putting 225 up 4 - 6 times and doing it 12 times. Especially for a sub 250lb player.

 

[bnoro]

Chandler's not a workout warrior either.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I could also do 225 (in college), I'm only 5'6 and was 155lbs. I was also working on max reps. Putting up 225 4 - 6 times in H.S. isn't what I was questioning, I was questioning the idea that many H.S. football players can put up 225 x 12 or more.

I'm also not saying that the 225 numbers are good because they aren't but the poster was trying to say that they were doing the equivalent of what many H.S. kids are doing and that is not even close to true. HUGE difference between putting 225 up 4 - 6 times and doing it 12 times. Especially for a sub 250lb player.

Would be curious to know what Tiller can max.

 

[orangeintheacc]

Maybe not 12+ times, but it's not uncommon for decent HS programs to have a number of kids who can put up 225. My team, which was pretty bad my junior and senior years, probably had 15-20 guys who could lift 225 without an issue over my four years, and our D1 turnout was nothing special- 1 Penn State, 2 UMass, 1 Temple, a few other FCS kids


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I just looked up a high school combine in Michigan from 2011. 26 kids benched 225 lbs. 14 or more times. These are kids of all stripes from only one state. So while it is not common for a high schooler to lift that much, it is certainly not that uncommon.

 

[qdawgg]

I just looked up the National Underclassmen 2011 combine results and they don't even test 225 - they do 185. Which tells me that many H.S. kids can't do very many at 225. This is out of +/- 100 combine results throughout the country.

http://www.nationalunderclassmen.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=23100&ATCLID=205094198#indianapolis

 

[Hoov50]

I just looked up a high school combine in Michigan from 2011. 26 kids benched 225 lbs. 14 or more times. These are kids of all stripes from only one state. So while it is not common for a high schooler to lift that much, it is certainly not that uncommon.

Are you certain it wasn't 185? Every combine I have ever sent players to have them bench 185 not 225.

 

[kcsu]

who cares. We have four guys at the combine and they all sucked. Chandler did ok but nothing off the chart and i actually do not expect much from him in the NFL believe he is a nice college player but is going to be in over his head in the league

 

[Orangetradition44]

It certainly is a valid question, especially since the new staff made it a point of saying that the old staff didn't even track / measure weight room progress. Not sure the new method is working.

And to say that none of these guys are "workout" warriors is missing the point. If you are measuring them and pushing them and motivating them and you want to be good, well, the kids will get stronger and faster. Basically, it can't all be about the individual player... Some of it has to be the system.

Anyone else concerned about the apparent lack of strength and mobility shown by the SU guys that went to the combine? They all graded poorly (with the possible exception of Jones), but what really stood out was Tiller's 16 BP reps and Thomas's 12. Provo didn't lift and Jones had a pedestrian 22. My son and I were near the field for the Cincy game last fall and were surprised at how much more ripped and bigger they looked than our guys. Are we getting anything done in the weightroom? I have my doubts.

 

[CIL]

Two things: HS combine uses 185

Second thing: Chandler has ridiculously long arms. Board meatheads will attest that the longer the arm, the more difficult it is for said person to bench a lot.

 

[orangeintheacc]

Are you certain it wasn't 185? Every combine I have ever sent players to have them bench 185 not 225.

At the Michigan preps combine I'm referring to kids can choose to lift either 225 or 185, I know it well as I've been to it several times. The kids I'm talking about benched 225. As kcsu said, who cares? We got off track from my main point which was the SU players are not very physically impressive compared to their peers (at least that's my opinion). Orangetradition4 makes a great point, working out for these guys is not optional. When I was in college you lifted whether you wanted to or not. After 4 years in the program we could be doing better in that area.

 

[anglerman]

Last year SU players did very well in the combine. It's just these 3 players and Chandler was respectable. You can't judge SU players just on these 3 guys. 2 of them just weren't prepared.

 

[bnoro]

who cares. We have four guys at the combine and they all sucked. Chandler did ok but nothing off the chart and i actually do not expect much from him in the NFL believe he is a nice college player but is going to be in over his head in the league

Why don't you expect much from him in the NFL? The kid was an animal when he played this year and he definitely wasn't 100% when he came back.

 

[Hoov50]

I am not going to try to predict how the Syracuse players will do in the NFL. The combine in general is overrated other than the interviews. With the exception of covering kickoffs or running 9 routes running 40 yards straight rarely happens in football, laying on your back and lifting 225 pounds straight up NEVER happens, jumping straight up from a dead stop happens only on hail marys, really the cone agility drills are the closest drills in the combine to actual game situations.

I have coached players who could bench 300+ pounds who were terrible football players. I have coached kids who had great 40 times and never had a play of close to 40 yards. The NFL combine is something for fans and analysts to talk about. For the good GMs it is only a small part of their decision process.