Still scratching my head over NFL combine showings

[SoBeCuse]

Anyone else concerned about the apparent lack of strength and mobility shown by the SU guys that went to the combine? They all graded poorly (with the possible exception of Jones), but what really stood out was Tiller's 16 BP reps and Thomas's 12. Provo didn't lift and Jones had a pedestrian 22. My son and I were near the field for the Cincy game last fall and were surprised at how much more ripped and bigger they looked than our guys. Are we getting anything done in the weightroom? I have my doubts.

On TV I thought the Wake Forest and Toledo players looked bigger and stronger than SU.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This is a really bad thread. Bart blew up the 225 lb lift last year, Carter was one of the stronger RB's. P thomas is an undersized safety who was suspended after failing multiple drug tests, is anyone surprised that the kid wasn't working his ass off here at Syracuse, is anyone surprised that he was puking and cramping on the field the entire year? This is a result of not being in peak conditioning and probably partying a bit much. can somebody convince me that it isn't?

I think Syracuse does a solid job of getting guys stronger who want to work, my problem with Hicks over the years is that some of the skills guys get too big and sacrifice speed for bulk, especially lower body. Chandler Jones will be a 2nd or 3rd round pick and people are picking at him as if he is a borderline pick, he has developed here nicely, added weight and gotten stronger, long arms don't help in the bench

What Thomas and moreso Tiller did is simply pathetic and shows a lack of work ethic, IMO. But like I said, people want to ignore all the signs with Thomas and act as if they don't all go together, he should have been working for that combine for 3 + years not 3 months and it showed.. Guys like Randy Moss can get away with that stuff not safeties with borderline size and speed. This isn't on the staff, it's on the individuals. I have seen meatheads in the gym with zero athletic ability bench more than these two Why? because they work at it. sure they are limited but these guys should have both done better there

S Thomas will put up some big numbers next year, why? because he works at it. I am not saying the kid is a choir boy but he gets after it in the weight room. It's a process, a 4-5 year process not a 3 month process as Tiller and Thomas showed. P Thomas is a clown

 

[Millhouse]

This is a really bad thread. Bart blew up the 225 lb lift last year, Carter was one of the stronger RB's. P thomas is an undersized safety who was suspended after failing multiple drug tests, is anyone surprised that the kid wasn't working his ass off here at Syracuse, is anyone surprised that he was puking and cramping on the field the entire year? This is a result of not being in peak conditioning and probably partying a bit much. can somebody convince me that it isn't?

I think Syracuse does a solid job of getting guys stronger who want to work, my problem with Hicks over the years is that some of the skills guys get too big and sacrifice speed for bulk, especially lower body. Chandler Jones will be a 2nd or 3rd round pick and people are picking at him as if he is a borderline pick, he has developed here nicely, added weight and gotten stronger, long arms don't help in the bench

What Thomas and moreso Tiller did is simply pathetic and shows a lack of work ethic, IMO. But like I said, people want to ignore all the signs with Thomas and act as if they don't all go together, he should have been working for that combine for 3 + years not 3 months and it showed.. Guys like Randy Moss can get away with that stuff not safeties with borderline size and speed. This isn't on the staff, it's on the individuals. I have seen meatheads in the gym with zero athletic ability bench more than these two Why? because they work at it. sure they are limited but these guys should have both done better there

S Thomas will put up some big numbers next year, why? because he works at it. I am not saying the kid is a choir boy but he gets after it in the weight room. It's a process, a 4-5 year process not a 3 month process as Tiller and Thomas showed. P Thomas is a clown

good post. tiller is especially shabby. the guy is a giant. you could twice as many reps and still not be at the top of the list. takes some wind out of the sales of the weight room stuff. you don't need anything fancy to do better than that.

to think that people half tiller's size work to beat his numbers for fun but he doesn't do it when the payoff for him could be millions

 

[dollarbill44]

I could also do 225 (in college), I'm only 5'6 and was 155lbs. I was also working on max reps. Putting up 225 4 - 6 times in H.S. isn't what I was questioning, I was questioning the idea that many H.S. football players can put up 225 x 12 or more.

I'm also not saying that the 225 numbers are good because they aren't but the poster was trying to say that they were doing the equivalent of what many H.S. kids are doing and that is not even close to true. HUGE difference between putting 225 up 4 - 6 times and doing it 12 times. Especially for a sub 250lb player.

I graduated HS in 1987. We had several kids (6-7) in my HS that could have matched Tiller's BP numbers and 3-4 that would have outperformed him, and this was from a program that was mediocre. A couple of them went to D1 schools, but none to top programs. I don't think any of them topped 250 lbs, either, which was gargantuan in HS back then.

No matter how you slice it, Tiller's reps were weak for a prospective NFL O-lineman and this will be apparent with the lack of training camp offers he will get.

 

[qdawgg]

I graduated HS in 1987. We had several kids (6-7) in my HS that could have matched Tiller's BP numbers and 3-4 that would have outperformed him, and this was from a program that was mediocre. A couple of them went to D1 schools, but none to top programs. I don't think any of them topped 250 lbs, either, which was gargantuan in HS back then.

No matter how you slice it, Tiller's reps were weak for a prospective NFL O-lineman and this will be apparent with the lack of training camp offers he will get.

Not sure why you quoted my post - I never said that Tiller's reps were good. I think they are pathetic.

 

[NovaOrange]

I just looked up the National Underclassmen 2011 combine results and they don't even test 225 - they do 185. Which tells me that many H.S. kids can't do very many at 225. This is out of +/- 100 combine results throughout the country.

http://www.nationalunderclassmen.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=23100&ATCLID=205094198#indianapolis

Tell that to the High School coach from Florida I meet at my Glazier coaching clinic this weekend at Atlantic City. The spread sheet he had up I would say they had 10 players on the team going 12 or more reps at 225. His son is going to Oklahoma and they had 12 kids sign D-1 so I also understand this isn't an average high school program so maybe not a good comparison

 

[dollarbill44]

Not sure why you quoted my post - I never said that Tiller's reps were good. I think they are pathetic.

You questioned that many HS football players could put up 225 for 12 reps. I was just stating that there were quite a few who could 25 years ago.

 

[billsin01]

To be honest, I have wondered about the number of season ending injuries we have had and any possible correlation to the S&P program used at SU.

I think it's fine to question the S&C program and perhaps it's entirely warranted. But correlating injuries to S&C is a reach, IMO. Some of the most cut players you have get injured the most. To me, FB injuries have more to do with how you're hit (why I don't think a QB running has that much of an impact on his injury risk) and your body type (long, lanky vs. bowling ball-esque. Being in extremely good shape is great and helps you in a lot of ways, but I'm not sure I'd tie it to season-ending injuries.

 

[dollarbill44]

I think it's fine to question the S&C program and perhaps it's entirely warranted. But correlating injuries to S&C is a reach, IMO. Some of the most cut players you have get injured the most. To me, FB injuries have more to do with how you're hit (why I don't think a QB running has that much of an impact on his injury risk) and your body type (long, lanky vs. bowling ball-esque. Being in extremely good shape is great and helps you in a lot of ways, but I'm not sure I'd tie it to season-ending injuries.

That totally depends on the type of injury. Ligaments, bones and concussions are not related to S&C, whereas muscle tears and tendons usually are, most notably due to a lack of flexibility and/or mobility, the causes of which can be several-fold.

 

[qdawgg]

You questioned that many HS football players could put up 225 for 12 reps. I was just stating that there were quite a few who could 25 years ago.

Gotcha - I was quoting a previous poster who was stating that MOST H.S. players could bench 12+ reps and I believe that to be false. Can most of the top prospects? Probably. Can MOST of the H.S. prospects do it - I haven't seen any evidence yet to show that would be true.

Regardless, the numbers by Tiller are pathetic and I wasn't making any attempt to say they weren't.

 

[billsin01]

That totally depends on the type of injury. Ligaments, bones and concussions are not related to S&C, whereas muscle tears and tendons usually are, most notably due to a lack of flexibility and/or mobility, the causes of which can be several-fold.

I absolutely agree that being in good shape and training hard is the best practice and can certainly help prevent injuries. You see this all the time in baseball with pitchers coming to ST in poor shape from the waist down, compensating with more effort through the shoulder and elbow and ending up DL'ed with some sort of strain/tendinitis/ligament issue.

I just mean I think it's hard to know what effect there is simply b/c guys like JR Johnson or Dwight Freeney or Rob Konrad are literally freaks of nature, yet they had an extremely difficult time staying healthy. Meanwhile a guy like Tiller, who clearly was not eating correctly and working out at a high level, was generally healthy for three years. Those are purely anecdotal, I understand, I just mean I'm not sure what the correlation is. I do tend to question our S&C program, though I feel better about it with Marrone than I did with GRob.

 

[Chip]

Two things: HS combine uses 185

Second thing: Chandler has ridiculously long arms. Board meatheads will attest that the longer the arm, the more difficult it is for said person to bench a lot.

Board weaklings will say the same thing when trying to defend how little they can bench or the fact that they just don't want to bench.

I swear it has nothing to with my laziness, it's my knuckle dragging long arms.

I would ballpark that at my strongest, I could bench 225 for about negative 30.

 

[kirbivore]

Anyone else concerned about the apparent lack of strength and mobility shown by the SU guys that went to the combine? They all graded poorly (with the possible exception of Jones), but what really stood out was Tiller's 16 BP reps and Thomas's 12. Provo didn't lift and Jones had a pedestrian 22. My son and I were near the field for the Cincy game last fall and were surprised at how much more ripped and bigger they looked than our guys. Are we getting anything done in the weightroom? I have my doubts.

Another ringing endorsement of Will Hicks.