Strickland needs fewer carries, was Howard's workload an anomaly?

[Alsacs]

little too late for that

Is Strickland a Senior?
If he isn’t I would love to see him on defense.

 

[money3189]

whew this thread.

- we don't run traditional play action all that much
- the system everyone was clamoring for, speeds up because the RB does some of the blocking assignment stuff because he's helping the QB and can see from that vantage point
- Efficiency is *the most* important thing to the offense, lining up properly for the RB is important - if he's not getting that right how is helping with the line calls
- Strickland was miscast from the beginning because the previous coaches sucked at recruiting
- Dino doesn't strike me as a coach who says "this freshman is good so I'm going to sacrifice 10 others things I want the offense to do that basically makes the whole system hum but at least we'll average 4 on the ground, also while burning a guys redshirt"

This is dead on. A lot of people dont see the whole picture within the scheme.

 

[Millhouse]

This is dead on. A lot of people dont see the whole picture within the scheme.

A lot of other coaches don't see the big picture apparently , you would think there would be more guys with as many carries and that low a ypc if that other stuff is so important

 

[TheCusian]

A lot of other coaches don't see the big picture apparently , you would think there would be more guys with as many carries and that low a ypc if that other stuff is so important

Who do you put back there prior to the arrival of Howard? Who was the better option?

I don’t think Dino is happy with the production (we’ve had new RB coaches and have a new OL coach this year). It appears we have better options in the pipeline, but in the meantime having a senior who does all the other stuff well is good.

 

[kcsu]

I was exaggerating for effect, but here’s some stuff

- lining up properly
- understanding the communication from the sideline
- blocking
- understanding the line calls and communicating them
- blitz pickup
- catching the ball
- route running
- built up endurance to go tempo through multiple years in the system
- knowing when your QB is stopped for a loss in the red zone and coming to get the ball, run it in for a TD

To be fair, Moe does some of this stuff well and I think Howard will be able to - just not sure how far along he is. Looks the part and runs well. I have high hopes

If in fact Dino has our RBs responsible for all of this junk it is no wonder we suck at running the ball.

 

[rrlbees]

If in fact Dino has our RBs responsible for all of this junk it is no wonder we suck at running the ball.

He does.

 

[TheCusian]

If in fact Dino has our RBs responsible for all of this junk it is no wonder we suck at running the ball.

Most of that “junk” is needed by most modern offenses. It’s on the whole, good. It just means a freshman needs to learn enough and be good enough to offset all the stuff Strickland and Moe are good at. I don’t think it’s all that complicated, I just think Howard hasn’t reached that level yet. If he had and he runs demonstrably better - I don’t think Dino would keep him out of the 2 deep.

It’s not all that different than ED vs TD vs Chance. Babers said ED makes the right decision most of the time, is a gamer, knows the offense, etc .. most here agree that a Tommy has a better arm, but is less experienced. His list of stuff he does better is not enough to supplant ED.

The truth is there’s some % of all this stuff that we can’t see and another % of stuff that only makes sense with the coaches experience, game and practice tape, philosophy, etc. Football has more of the iceberg “underwater” than other sports. Leads to great questions like with the OP. But I think we don’t see what Babers sees. We just see 3.4 yards a carry and a young beast of a guy who looks the part.

 

[money3189]

A lot of other coaches don't see the big picture apparently , you would think there would be more guys with as many carries and that low a ypc if that other stuff is so important

A lot of other coaches don't know Dino's scheme and what he asks the backs to do.Through practice and scrimmages Dino identified Cisco, Szmyt Trill and Harris. They are current contributors but he doesnt know what he's doing with Howard? Howard could give us production this year no doubt but Im not basing it off that performance. If I was the coach, I will be focused on what he does in practice every day vs a quality defense, how much he understands the checks, signs, blocking, run fits with the starting O line. I wouldnt be focused on his YPC against a FCS scout team defense on the final drive.

 

[money3189]

Most of that “junk” is needed by most modern offenses. It’s on the whole, good. It just means a freshman needs to learn enough and be good enough to offset all the stuff Strickland and Moe are good at. I don’t think it’s all that complicated, I just think Howard hasn’t reached that level yet. If he had and he runs demonstrably better - I don’t think Dino would keep him out of the 2 deep.

It’s not all that different than ED vs TD vs Chance. Babers said ED makes the right decision most of the time, is a gamer, knows the offense, etc .. most here agree that a Tommy has a better arm, but is less experienced. His list of stuff he does better is not enough to supplant ED.

The truth is there’s some % of all this stuff that we can’t see and another % of stuff that only makes sense with the coaches experience, game and practice tape, philosophy, etc. Football has more of the iceberg “underwater” than other sports. Leads to great questions like with the OP. But I think we don’t see what Babers sees. We just see 3.4 yards a carry and a young beast of a guy who looks the part.

Fans only see what they see in games. We don't know the whole story.

 

[shu 49]

Great to have a o that is complex but tough when u have a fresh that runs great but can’t line up

 

[Trueblue25]

So much speculation off of 1 game vs a team uconn would handle.

 

[qdawgg]

A lot of other coaches don't see the big picture apparently , you would think there would be more guys with as many carries and that low a ypc if that other stuff is so important

You can't question the coach. Just like you couldn't question Shafer's decisions previously because he knows more than you do.

 

[Cusefan69]

You cannot fully judge the running game without judging our oline these past few years as well. Our oline has not exactly made life easy for Strick... I agree with those saying he is reliable, handles what HCDFB wants him to or he would not be out there. Hopefully Abdul is paying attention, learning the calls and developing further in our strength program. A seasoned line next year with that young man could translate to an exciting run game.

 

[SmilinBob]

For this team to be effective, Strickland has to be near 5 per carry now that the meat of the schedule is upon him. I understand what is expected of the RB's that we know is X and what is really expected from the staff is X + Y but production is production and from here on there has to be consistent improvement in the running game from the man who gets the first 2 series because stats show how well SU does when they score first and these 2 possessions are obviously important. I still continue to believe that his vision seeing any potential holes that are not the original play, he struggles to see but maybe that's what Babers wants, him to drive to the assumed driven hole which seems to be opposite of what coach says about taking what looks the D gives you.

This is obviously on the OL as well to make the appropriate holes for Strickland and Neal which I'm not sure they are quite yet there. It's kind of interesting that last year I said the OL was better than most say and this year I'm saying they are not as good as many are saying they are. It's been a gradual improvement and they are not even close to what I'd like to see but they have been getting better over the process of the 3 years Babers has been here which is a very good thing.

That said, if the passing game were to take off that would help the pile in the middle, the mass of humanity that Strick has to drive through would be less congested and add a .5 or yard to his per carry. SU needs this whole offense to click to beat the ACC teams and imo they are not there yet but there is potential to be which is a very good thing. The WR's other than Custis HAVE to make plays, it is just that simple but yet complex.

Another reason SU has been doing well scoring wise has been field position. My worry is when the starters (first 2 series) are pinned under the 20 will they be able to drive forward and at the very least push to the 40 and reagain the field position battle? I see a lot of 2nd and 9's and 8's if this past execution continues and is 1 hold or offsides to pretty much burying the O unless ED continues to do his thing which while is effective but, for the past 3 years not sustainable. Or the passing game improves and that of course includes protection for ED.

Time to put the hammer to the nail and it'll be very interesting to see how the offense does on Saturday. Can not lose the turnover battle or play foolishly.

 

[TheCusian]

You can't question the coach. Just like you couldn't question Shafer's decisions previously because he knows more than you do.

This isn’t “do we punt from the 40” where we have 98% of the info AND hindsight. Player evaluation is based on tons of info none of us are privy to

 

[Chip]

I wouldnt be focused on his YPC against a FCS scout team defense on the final drive.

I don't think it's by accident that he jumped Markenzy Pierre and saw time in the 2nd game.

I think he's being groomed quickly. Dino often harps on YPC, and by now I think he realizes that it's just not Strickland's game. He and Neal picked up on what to do quickly in Dino's first year. I bet they think Howard can too.

 

[TheCusian]

I don't think it's by accident that he jumped Markenzy Pierre and saw time in the 2nd game.

I think he's being groomed quickly. Dino often harps on YPC, and by now I think he realizes that it's just not Strickland's game. He and Neal picked up on what to do quickly in Dino's first year. I bet they think Howard can too.

I think he knew Strickland wouldn't be that guy from the beginning but favored the passing game and tempo over YPC. He is grooming Howard to not be a net negative in the passing game which would "unlock" the offense. I hope that's the case, 1000%. Just not sure he's there yet.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Chip]

I think he knew Strickland wouldn't be that guy from the beginning but favored the passing game and tempo over YPC. He is grooming Howard to not be a net negative in the passing game which would "unlock" the offense. I hope that's the case, 1000%. Just not sure he's there yet.

Hope I'm wrong.

There’s no way he’s there yet. The question is how long. There have been true freshman RBs end the season as starter but didn’t start the year seeing much time. I remember Steve Slaton of WVU. He just took over that team, but didn’t see a snap against us in the opener (thankfully).

If we don’t see more of him, say, after the bye, then his learning curve is longer than we hope.

 

[SoBristol]

. . . .
I don’t think Dino is happy with the production (we’ve had new RB coaches and have a new OL coach this year). It appears we have better options in the pipeline, but in the meantime having a senior who does all the other stuff well is good.

Wasn't entirely Dino's choice to switch RB coaches -- Mike Hart took a better offer with Indiana, and Sean Lewis becoming HC at Kent State led to the shuffle of assignments for this season. Those changes haven't meant any difference in Strickland's starting role.
But, yes, it is all about the talent pipeline to get to where Dino will be happy.

 

[TheCusian]

Wasn't entirely Dino's choice to switch RB coaches -- Mike Hart took a better offer with Indiana, and Sean Lewis becoming HC at Kent State led to the shuffle of assignments for this season. Those changes haven't meant any difference in Strickland's starting role.
But, yes, it is all about the talent pipeline to get to where Dino will be happy.

Could be.

I’ve always been in the camp that says Dino wasn’t sad to see Hart go. And I think whatever reason for the shakeup, if he thought Lustig was good he’d have left him there.

I’m just shocked people are upset that Dino put the passing game 1st when he got here. He knew getting that and tempo going was phase 1.

It’s year 3 and you have a smallish RB who can break one, a SR who does everything else well, a guy who fumbled on his 1st game, and a true freshman who might be good who didn’t line up correctly. It’s not an easy choice. AND - Eric is the guy with the best vision and ability running the ball.

 

[phil77]

Unlike WR in the Art Briles system Freshman running backs rarely play. 2013 a freshman had 128 attempts and 2014 a freshman had 100 attempts. Other than that there isn't much history of freshman running backs coming in and racking up a huge amount of carries in this offense. So it isn't a shock to me that Babers prefers Strickland and Neal over Howard even if Howard is a better runner.

Be very interesting what happens next year with Adams and how much he is able to soak up this year.

There is a history of WRs playing early which is why I would expect to see a lot of freshman WRs playing especially if Butler and Riley continue to under preform.

 

[qdawgg]

This isn’t “do we punt from the 40” where we have 98% of the info AND hindsight. Player evaluation is based on tons of info none of us are privy to

I knew mentioning Shafer would trigger you. I would have bet a paycheck on it.

 

[sufandu]

Could be.

I’ve always been in the camp that says Dino wasn’t sad to see Hart go. And I think whatever reason for the shakeup, if he thought Lustig was good he’d have left him there.

I’m just shocked people are upset that Dino put the passing game 1st when he got here. He knew getting that and tempo going was phase 1.

It’s year 3 and you have a smallish RB who can break one, a SR who does everything else well, a guy who fumbled on his 1st game, and a true freshman who might be good who didn’t line up correctly. It’s not an easy choice. AND - Eric is the guy with the best vision and ability running the ball.

Who says people are upset Dino put the passing game first? I haven't seen that at all on here. I think people are a bit frustrated the running game hasn't come around enough to consistently complement the passing game. I think Dino is too. I think he emphasized the passing game at first because we had more pieces in place to do that when he arrived. He has said he wants to run, and I doubt he is close to satisfied with the production there. He knows when the running game gets going the chunk passing plays will increase a lot and we'll sustain drives better.

 

[TheCusian]

Who says people are upset Dino put the passing game first? I haven't seen that at all on here. I think people are a bit frustrated the running game hasn't come around enough to consistently complement the passing game. I think Dino is too. I think he emphasized the passing game at first because we had more pieces in place to do that when he arrived. He has said he wants to run, and I doubt he is close to satisfied with the production there. He knows when the running game gets going the chunk passing plays will increase a lot and we'll sustain drives better.

He def wants both going. Point was that he’s been playing the guy who helps with tempo and passing over pure running (maybe just because he was the best we had on the roster).

That’s the answer to the OP. That’s how you get a guy with that many starts and that low a YPC.

 

[money3189]

I don't think it's by accident that he jumped Markenzy Pierre and saw time in the 2nd game.

I think he's being groomed quickly. Dino often harps on YPC, and by now I think he realizes that it's just not Strickland's game. He and Neal picked up on what to do quickly in Dino's first year. I bet they think Howard can too.

Do we know for sure he jumped Pierre? Dino could just be giving Howard a chance to play in a real game