Style of play in NBA Finals

[Alsacs]

Dash, if the mid-80s Celtics could have made more threes, then why wouldn't they have? What was stopping them? I mean it was common knowledge in 1986 that the number 3 was greater than the number 2, so why wouldn't they easily figure out that they had the capability to put more points on the board? That could have resulted in more titles.

For the 1986 season.
McHale shot 57%
Parish shot 55%
Walton shot 56%
Bird shot 50%

Why attempt more 3's when you make over 50% from 2.
Bird shot 42% from 3 that year.
Ainge and Wedman could make 3's.

Those Celtics teams could have adjusted if they played in today's slash and drive and 3 point game.

 

[Eric15]

Honestly, the game just hadn't evolved there yet. The 3 pointer was like 5 years old; guys had grown up their entire life with the idea of getting the ball inside, playing inside-out, etc.

The average team took 31.8% of their shots from 3 this year. If you go back just 5 years, the average team took about 22% of their shots from 30. Threes have increased by nearly 40% in just 5 years! And you would have thought everyone knew 3 was more than 2 in 2012.

Agree with everything you just said. That's really the basis of my argument that the Celtics would be in awe of the way the Warriors play today if somehow they took a Delorean to 2017.

 

[Bayside44]

Dash, if the mid-80s Celtics could have made more threes, then why wouldn't they have? What was stopping them? I mean it was common knowledge in 1986 that the number 3 was greater than the number 2, so why wouldn't they easily figure out that they had the capability to put more points on the board? That could have resulted in more titles.

Pitch counts weren't a thing either. Sports just change.

 

[Eric15]

Why attempt more 3's when you make over 50% from 2.

Score more points and thus win more championships?

 

[Eric15]

The 1986 Celtics are an Apple IIE and the 2017 Warriors are a Macbook Pro.

The Apple IIE is arguably the greatest computer in history. But no one today would compare it's performance with a Macbook Pro, because computers have evolved so much.

 

[Knicks411]

Agree with everything you just said. That's really the basis of my argument that the Celtics would be in awe of the way the Warriors play today if somehow they took a Delorean to 2017.

That's why I think you need to make the distinction; if you drop the Celtics into today's game they would struggle a little, at least against a team like GS, but I don't doubt they'd adapt. So i guess it depends on how you frame it

 

[Alsacs]

Score more points and thus win more championships?

Yeah the Celtics didn't try to score more points. They just wanted to let the Lakers win.

They played the style of the time. They had personnel to play differently if they had to just like those Lakers teams did.

The Lakers and Celtics teams of the 1980s couldn't have been assembled today because the NBA only had 24 teams where they have 30 teams today.

The talent of those teams is higher than the Warriors.
Thompson and Green are no different talent wise than Dennis Johnson and Parish.
It's just like comparing a 1986 car and 2017 car. The newer car is faster now but it's not necessarily a better car.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Dash, if the mid-80s Celtics could have made more threes, then why wouldn't they have? What was stopping them? I mean it was common knowledge in 1986 that the number 3 was greater than the number 2, so why wouldn't they easily figure out that they had the capability to put more points on the board? That could have resulted in more titles.

Doubt, disdain marked most NBA teams' first forays into 3-point land

It was considered sissy basketball taken by players afraid of contact. The same reason even horrible free throw shooters won't try shooting underhand, players don't really like taking bank shots and the sky hook all has but disappeared today. Back then the big thing was dunking and taking closely guarded shots. Seems crazy but there's a nutty definition of machismo in each era and what being "tough" is.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah the Celtics didn't try to score more points. They just wanted to let the Lakers win.

They played the style of the time. They had personnel to play differently if they had to just like those Lakers teams did.

The Lakers and Celtics teams of the 1980s couldn't have been assembled today because the NBA only had 24 teams where they have 30 teams today.

The talent of those teams is higher than the Warriors.
Thompson and Green are no different talent wise than Dennis Johnson and Parish.
It's just like comparing a 1986 car and 2017 car. The newer car is faster now but it's not necessarily a better car.

I know the league has expanded since the mid 80's, but so has the player pool. There were basically no international players in the league in 1986, there are a ton now. So I don't totally buy that argument.

 

[Alsacs]

This would be a good game. I think today's team dominates in the forwards but the 87 team dominates the backcourt and center.

If you put Karl Malone for McHale it's the best of that generation at each position.

 

[Newhouser]

This would be a good game. I think today's team dominates in the forwards but the 87 team dominates the backcourt and center.

If you put Karl Malone for McHale it's the best of that generation at each position.

That would be a very interesting game and it shows the depth of the league that neither Curry or Durant are on the All-NBA Team. Personally I think McHale was better than Malone. Nit picking - that game would be a fun watch.

 

[Knicks411]

This would be a good game. I think today's team dominates in the forwards but the 87 team dominates the backcourt and center.

If you put Karl Malone for McHale it's the best of that generation at each position.

That's funny too, because that first team for this year is missing both KD and Steph. If my life depended on winning a game and I could pick anyone from the current league, I would probably need both those guys in the lineup.

 

[jordoo]

This would be a good game. I think today's team dominates in the forwards but the 87 team dominates the backcourt and center.

If you put Karl Malone for McHale it's the best of that generation at each position.

Its weird to say but even as good as Westbrook is I think he doesn't fit well on an allstar type team. Harden seemed to evolve this season and passed it much better but his usage rate still has to be astronomical. I'm not sure I would choose either if building a team out of today's stars. If I had a team that didn't have much going both are perfect for that and could make you competitive right away.

 

[Knicks411]

Its weird to say but even as good as Westbrook is I think he doesn't fit well on an allstar type team. Harden seemed to evolve this season and passed it much better but his usage rate still has to be astronomical. I'm not sure I would choose either if building a team out of today's stars. If I had a team that didn't have much going both are perfect for that and could make you competitive right away.

Yeah I agree, part of what makes Russ so good is he handle a ridiculous usage rate with solidish efficiency. On a team like this, you don't really need that. I'd take Steph over Russ in this scenario pretty easily

 

[Doc5120]

Thing with the 3 point shooting is...do we really think that if someone like Larry Bird played today he wouldn't be making hundreds of 3's per year and among the league leaders every year? He was as good of a shooter as any of these current guys, they just didn't attempt as many 3's back then. Doesn't mean they couldn't make them.

Byron Scott, Ainge, Cooper...these guys would be filling it up. Heck, look at Magic. The 3 was becoming a bigger part of the game towards the end of his career, and suddenly he's shooting and making a good amount of them. Do we really think he couldn't have done that in 1982, too? The game changed. The shot selection changed. The style of play changed. That doesn't mean guys couldn't shoot with any range back then.

Magic Johnson shot 31, 38 and 32% from 3 pt range over his last 3 seasons. While 38 is a solid percentage, I would not go so far as to say that he made a lot of them. His % significantly improved, but I wouldn't view that as anything special.

 

[dasher]

Dash, if the mid-80s Celtics could have made more threes, then why wouldn't they have? What was stopping them? I mean it was common knowledge in 1986 that the number 3 was greater than the number 2, so why wouldn't they easily figure out that they had the capability to put more points on the board? That could have resulted in more titles.

The game wasn't played that way. The philosophy of sports has changed over the years. There is less sacrifice bunting in baseball now because teams have learned you score more by not bunting. Basketball teams went down low if they could. Now, centers have less low posts skills than years ago but they shoot a lot more 3's. When I was growing up, football teams desperately wanted to establish the run. Today, not so much.

 

[OrangeDW]

Magic Johnson shot 31, 38 and 32% from 3 pt range over his last 3 seasons. While 38 is a solid percentage, I would not go so far as to say that he made a lot of them. His % significantly improved, but I wouldn't view that as anything special.

Magic made the 5th most 3's in the league in 1990, and 13th most in 1991.

 

[OrangeDW]

This would be a good game. I think today's team dominates in the forwards but the 87 team dominates the backcourt and center.

If you put Karl Malone for McHale it's the best of that generation at each position.

I give 1987 the advantage at 3 out of 5 spots - Jordan, Magic, and Hakeem.

 

[Doc5120]

Magic made the 5th most 3's in the league in 1990, and 13th most in 1991.

That is true. I'm not saying he wasn't near the top of the league in makes. I'm just stating that he did not make them at a very high clip (save the year he hit 38%). You said he was taking and making a lot of them. In that era, yes, he was taking a lot of them. But when you're hitting just over 30%, you're not going to make defenders change the way they play you.

Guys like Curry & Thompson are not only making them at high rates, they are hitting extremely difficult shots. And because of that, defenders have to be attached to them at all times, which creates more open space and allows their offense to flow more easily. Magic is an all-time great player & 1 of the best passers of all-time, but his 3 pt shooting (in his later years) was very average by today's standards.

 

[Eric15]

This would be a good game. I think today's team dominates in the forwards but the 87 team dominates the backcourt and center.

If you put Karl Malone for McHale it's the best of that generation at each position.

If I had to create a lineup of 2017 guys to compete with those 1987 stars, I would go Curry, Klay, Durant, Lebron, Cousins. You would have extremely good floor spacing and room for Lebron to drive and dish. And then play a 2-3 zone on defense, with an emphasis on shadowing Bird from outside.

 

[Arangeman]

30 for 30 next week on Lakers/Celtics in the 80's. If you played 80's rules I don't know that GSW could match the toughness.

 

[Eric15]

It's just like comparing a 1986 car and 2017 car. The newer car is faster now but it's not necessarily a better car.

Cars are absolutely better in 2017 than they were in 1986. Emissions, safety, performance, lifespan, technological features, etc. Your analogy actually helps my argument.

 

[cuseincincy]

If I had to create a lineup of 2017 guys to compete with those 1987 stars, I would go Curry, Klay, Durant, Lebron, Cousins. You would have extremely good floor spacing and room for Lebron to drive and dish. And then play a 2-3 zone on defense, with an emphasis on shadowing Bird from outside.

Who is Curry going to guard Magic or Mike? :rolling:

 

[Knicks411]

If I had to create a lineup of 2017 guys to compete with those 1987 stars, I would go Curry, Klay, Durant, Lebron, Cousins. You would have extremely good floor spacing and room for Lebron to drive and dish. And then play a 2-3 zone on defense, with an emphasis on shadowing Bird from outside.

I'd need Kawhi on my roster. He's just too good. Really, I need all 3 F (Lebron, Kawhi, and Durant). I'd dump Klay, and probably swap out Cousins for Davis.

 

[jordoo]

Cars are absolutely better in 2017 than they were in 1986. Emissions, safety, performance, lifespan, technological features, etc. Your analogy actually helps my argument.

Engines themselves if maintained seem to last for ever these days as well. Its all the stuff around them that eventually wears out.