SU basketball's 101 vacated wins will include memorable 2006 Big East title | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com
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SU basketball's 101 vacated wins will include memorable 2006 Big East title

sutomcat said:
It is ridiculous. I could at least understand somewhat if the reason the wins were taken away was because of drug policy violations. Players routinely get small benefits that they shouldn't have gotten. When the school finds out, the benefit is returned, the school self reports and the NCAA forgives them. Or at worst gives them a minor penalty (perhaps a player is suspended for a game).

For some reason, the NCAA decided to really hammer the head coach for Syracuse and abandoned decades of precedents to punish him on a personal level.

You just can't do that when you are supposed to be an impartial, objective body empowered to review the behavior of member institutions.

The wins will be reinstated. The NCAA will be humiliated. Another nail in the coffin of an organization that failed and needs to be rebuilt or replaced.
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Somehow, as the details of the ruling come out, the whole situation has become even more incredible and infuriating. I didn't think that was possible.
 
Pretty sure this final result shows that some absolute loser in the NCAA had an ax to grind with JB. This is an unprecedented, far over the top punishment for what amounted to minor infractions, all of which JB had little or nothing to do with. And then when you compare this to other schools, other infractions and what is happening at UNC/Lville with what turned out to be (or obviously will turn out to be) minor punishments, you can't help but understand that this was all done to sully JB. It's absurd.
 
Jasoncuse said:
Pretty sure this final result shows that some absolute loser in the NCAA had an ax to grind with JB. This is an unprecedented, far over the top punishment for what amounted to minor infractions, all of which JB had little or nothing to do with. And then when you compare this to other schools, other infractions and what is happening at UNC/Lville with what turned out to be (or obviously will turn out to be) minor punishments, you can't help but understand that this was all done to sully JB. It's absurd.
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Completely agree. The problems with the NCAA [in no particular order] are that they situationally select who to enforce the rules against, while simultaneously looking the way while others commit more severe infractions, and their application of punishment is completely arbitrary, capricious, and has no tie to precedent.

I'd say that they are a joke as both a governance and enforcement agency, but the sad truth is that they are a sham. And their inevitable downfall will be of their own crooked doing when it happens sooner rather than later.
 
sutomcat said:
It is ridiculous. I could at least understand somewhat if the reason the wins were taken away was because of drug policy violations. Players routinely get small benefits that they shouldn't have gotten. When the school finds out, the benefit is returned, the school self reports and the NCAA forgives them. Or at worst gives them a minor penalty (perhaps a player is suspended for a game). For some reason, the NCAA decided to really hammer the head coach for Syracuse and abandoned decades of precedents to punish him on a personal level. You just can't do that when you are supposed to be an impartial, objective body empowered to review the behavior of member institutions. The wins will be reinstated. The NCAA will be humiliated. Another nail in the coffin of an organization that failed and needs to be rebuilt or replaced.
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Yup. The time is coming. Fait accompli.
 
RF2044 said:
Completely agree. The problems with the NCAA [in no particular order] are that they situationally select who to enforce the rules against, while simultaneously looking the way while others commit more severe infractions, and their application of punishment is completely arbitrary, capricious, and has no tie to precedent.

I'd say that they are a joke as both a governance and enforcement agency, but the sad truth is that they are a sham. And their inevitable downfall will be of their own crooked doing when it happens sooner rather than later.
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Its like they put names in a hat and decide who to go after, and who to give a pass too.
 
Briancuse said:
Its like they put names in a hat and decide who to go after, and who to give a pass too.
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I hate the ncaa as much as the next person. But we have to remember who the "they" is. College administrators.
 
rrlbees said:
I hate the ncaa as much as the next person. But we have to remember who the "they" is. College administrators.
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College administrators who serve as volunteers and / or unelected representatives on committees, to ostensibly represent the members and support the operations of the agency in a short-term capacity.

But the main organization is NOT comprised of these groups, who's operations are separate from the volunteers / members.
 
RF2044 said:
College administrators who serve as volunteers and / or unelected representatives on committees, to ostensibly represent the members and support the operations of the agency in a short-term capacity. But the main organization is NOT comprised of these groups, who's operations are separate from the volunteers / members.
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The board of governors is made up of college presidents and chancellors. The committees under them such as infractions, eligibility, etc are made up of administrators such as ADs.
 
rrlbees said:
The board of governors is made up of college presidents and chancellors. The committees under them such as infractions, eligibility, etc are made up of administrators such as ADs.
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...who serve in a voluntary, finite, short-term capacity. None of those volunteer representatives are part of the NCAA organization, nor are they employees of the institution.

You and I have disagreed about this before, and I'm not interested in getting into another argument over it--but the way your categorizing it is a gross oversimplification that qualitatively misrepresents how the NCAA [and most regulatory agencies in general] operates, and the role that the membership plays in said operations.
 
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RF2044 said:
...who serve in a voluntary, finite, short-term capacity. None of those volunteer representatives are part of the NCAA organization, nor are they employees of the institution. You and I have disagreed about this before, and I'm not interested in getting into another argument over it--but the way your categorizing it is a gross oversimplification that qualitatively misrepresents how the NCAA [and most regulatory agencies in general] operates, and the role that the membership plays in said operations.
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Most, and in some cases all, are current employees of member schools. The NCAA board of governors ACC rep is the current GT president. The infractions committee is represented by a ND AD. You can search around here and find the governors, directors in the governance of d1.

Governance
 
rrlbees said:
Most, and in some cases all, are current employees of member schools. The NCAA board of governors ACC rep is the current GT president. The infractions committee is represented by a ND AD. You can search around here and find the governors, directors in the governance of d1.

Governance
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Right--so not employees of the NCAA. They are volunteers who are participating on a limited basis for a short-term duration to shape the rules of the regulatory agency their institutions belong to that, and in some capacities to support specified aspects of operations [i.e., appeals committees, NCAA basketball selection committee, etc.].

But the main body of the NCAA is a separate entity from these volunteers / committee members. A few years back, I sat on a national committee to help adjust a subset of SEC rules. My employer at the time was a Fortune 100 financial services institution, and I represented not only them, but all financial institutions in our market segment. Helping to frame those rules and work on the way that the statues were written didn't make me a member of the SEC, or an SEC auditor--it only meant that I was authorized to represent the regulatory agency in a limited capacity, using temporary "powers" that they sanctioned.

And just as the SEC was not the member institutions [despite their affiliation, and the regulatory agency's jurisdiction over that group], the NCAA is also is a separate entity [out of necessity, since it enforces the rules against them] that involves the membership to shape policy, sanctioning these volunteers to act on the agency's behalf in a limited capacity.

Again, not worth getting into over a second time.
 
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As a consumer of a product I have asked for a refund on my season tickets for the years in question as Memphis season ticket holders did previously. I did not dish out thousands of dollars for exhibition games or games that no longer exist on the schedule at all and at no time during the purchase process was it disclaimed to me that results might be overturned at a later date. Not going to call into question the idiocy of the NCAA or Syracuse not following the rules I am simply pursuing it from a business standpoint. Recognize the results or refund the consumers for a devalued experience.
 
HRE Otto IV said:
Lesson learned no reason to sit Fab Melo that year. They vacated the wins he didn't play so might as well have played him anyway.

And why 2006?
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That's a great point. We found the problem, self-reported and suspended the kid. What on earth else did they want us to do ... act like the SEC and not have any real classes to attend in the first place?

And I take issue with Water's characterization of the trophy/banners ruling as "a bizarre twist". How about typically illogical, arbitrary and capricious?
 
reedny said:
That's a great point. We found the problem, self-reported and suspended the kid. What on earth else did they want us to do ... act like the SEC and not have any real classes to attend in the first place?
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And for taking control of the situation we got hit with Lack Of Institutional Control. :confused:
 
jordoo said:
And for taking control of the situation we got hit with Lack Of Institutional Control. :confused:
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Yessiree, Jordoo. They could have just ruled that the GAMES FAB PLAYED IN AFTER THE VIOLATION should be vacated. But that would have been consistent and logical. Instead, it's Alice and Wonderland.
 
We keep the banners and the trophies so that when they give us some of the wins back (which seems to be what they almost always do after several years) they won't have to spend money on new banners and trophies.
 
jordoo said:
So we did win the BET and make the NCAA's with no recorded wins in those seasons. The NCAA does it to themselves. Popcorn and soda
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That's exactly what happened. Makes perfect sense!
 

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