SU bball future

[OrangeBear]

Hi guys, I am fairly new to this board. Just to give you my background, I went to Baylor for undergrad and am getting my masters through SU. I have been a big Baylor fan (a big college bball and football fan in general) for a while and recently started following SU basketball as a fan even though I have been pretty familiar with its success over the years.

I am sure these topics have already been discussed but if you guys can offer your thoughts and insight on these, I would really appreciate it:

1) Is there any chance SU bball could still be penalized by the NCAA for either the B.Fine scandal or the failed drugs tests issue that was reported?

2) I am sure everyone is following this round of realignment talk which unfortunately is heavily driven by football success. So let's say the absolute worst case scenario where we end up with a 4x16 scenario and SU is not able to make it into one of the four power conferences, do you think that SU bball will be able to sustain its prominence as an elite basketball program in what would be a non-power conference(again, as defined by football)? Is it sustainable once JB retires as coach? Does SU have a plan in place or is JB still pretty far off from retirement?

I know that’s a lot of questions in one post but having gone through the nightmare scenario of Baylor being “left behind” last year’s realignment talk and the bball scandal from a decade back, I certainly hope SU survives and flourishes going forward (as Baylor is right now). Having a rooting interest in both the Big12 and ACC, I hope to have some good conversations with you guys going forward.

 

[moqui]

1a) Is there any chance SU bball could still be penalized by the NCAA for either the B.Fine scandal: NO
1b) or the failed drugs tests issue that was reported: NO

2a) let's say the absolute worst case scenario where we end up with a 4x16 scenario and SU is not able to make it into one of the four power conferences, do you think that SU bball will be able to sustain its prominence as an elite basketball program in what would be a non-power conference(again, as defined by football)? In that particular scenario, NO
2b) Is it sustainable once JB retires as coach? Others will say unequivocally yes, but I have my doubts
2c) Does SU have a plan in place or is JB still pretty far off from retirement? Mike Hopkins has been given assurances that he is the coach in waiting; I suspect that JB will be leaving within 2 years, although I would hope he stays long enough to get 1000 wins

 

[reedny]

Hey, Bear. Welcome. Baylor had a nice team last year. I noticed that Jones, Miller and (outside chance) Acey are NBA prospects. We've got 4 looking to get drafted: Melo, Dion Waiters, Kris Joseph and Scoop Jardine (outside chance). KJ and Scoop, in particular, are 4 year guys that gave a lot to the program. Exciting year to come with big time recruits (DC2, Grant), veteren guys (BT, CJ, JS), sophomores looking to explode (X-Mas and MCW) and even a quality redshirt who brings perimeter offense. We're preseason top 10-15, could be good, could be rebuilding. We'll know in a couple of months.

As far as 1), the short answer is 'no'. That was the scandal that wasn't, coming unfortunately at a time when another, much larger and more serious scandal swept out Penn State's coach, AD and President. In this case, the 4 victims are down to 2, oddly related by marriage. There have been (and are likely to be) no charges, due to the age and uncorroborated nature of the allegations.

The 'drug' issue was really an unfair attack that I'm predicting will go exactly nowhere. We reported "possible" violations, true. Any time that happens, there's a risk, but reporting doesn't mean we'll be found to have committed punishable infractions. The enterprise "journalists" from Yahoo that published the article did a good job of mudslinging, and a poor job of analyzing the policy and data. SU has a voluntary program with 3 violation classes. Despite the sensationalist tone of the article, a player can violate the policy and be 'counseled', re-enter and play. Secondary violators can be in vastly different situations. Therefore, the "multiple violation" cases trumpeted by the article could be something or nothing .. a player who violates in his freshman year could be reinstated after counseling. Then he might violate when he's a senior -- years later. In addition, under Crowthhamel, medical testing didn't go to JB, it went to Jake, so the allegation that JB covered up something or played 'druggies' is, at this point, totally unsupported by known facts.

As to 2), we're in the ACC for better or worse. JB's time is limited, but many doubt this year or next. Thereafter, who knows. After this season, SU is off to the ACC, which many consider a BB conference. No question, it has neither the FB revenue nor the national (FB) cache' of the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, etc.. However, it has some FB, and lots of BB, programs, that are nationally prominent and lucrative. The recent contract, while not gaudy in its numbers, does have a revenue stream that's nothing to spit at. According to our AD, there are some nice 3d tier revenue provisions that could be lucrative for SU and other elite level BB programs (Duke, UNC).

You might have heard that Mike Hopkins (former SU BB player, from CA) is the "coach in waiting". He's an excellent recruiter and assistant, who's been with the program ... geez 16 years +.

 

[EastCoast2]

OP is Scott Drew undercover

 

[OrangeBear]

Hey, Bear. Welcome. Baylor had a nice team last year. I noticed that Jones, Miller and (outside chance) Acey are NBA prospects. We've got 4 looking to get drafted: Melo, Dion Waiters, Kris Joseph and Scoop Jardine (outside chance). KJ and Scoop, in particular, are 4 year guys that gave a lot to the program. Exciting year to come with big time recruits (DC2, Grant), veteren guys (BT, CJ, JS), sophomores looking to explode (X-Mas and MCW) and even a quality redshirt who brings perimeter offense. We're preseason top 10-15, could be good, could be rebuilding. We'll know in a couple of months.

As far as 1), the short answer is 'no'. That was the scandal that wasn't, coming unfortunately at a time when another, much larger and more serious scandal swept out Penn State's coach, AD and President. In this case, the 4 victims are down to 2, oddly related by marriage. There have been (and are likely to be) no charges, due to the age and uncorroborated nature of the allegations.

The 'drug' issue was really an unfair attack that I'm predicting will go exactly nowhere. We reported "possible" violations, true. Any time that happens, there's a risk, but reporting doesn't mean we'll be found to have committed punishable infractions. The enterprise "journalists" from Yahoo that published the article did a good job of mudslinging, and a poor job of analyzing the policy and data. SU has a voluntary program with 3 violation classes. Despite the sensationalist tone of the article, a player can violate the policy and be 'counseled', re-enter and play. Secondary violators can be in vastly different situations. Therefore, the "multiple violation" cases trumpeted by the article could be something or nothing .. a player who violates in his freshman year could be reinstated after counseling. Then he might violate when he's a senior -- years later. In addition, under Crowthhamel, medical testing didn't go to JB, it went to Jake, so the allegation that JB covered up something or played 'druggies' is, at this point, totally unsupported by known facts.

As to 2), we're in the ACC for better or worse. JB's time is limited, but many doubt this year or next. Thereafter, who knows. After this season, SU is off to the ACC, which many consider a BB conference. No question, it has neither the FB revenue nor the national (FB) cache' of the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, etc.. However, it has some FB, and lots of BB, programs, that are nationally prominent and lucrative. The recent contract, while not gaudy in its numbers, does have a revenue stream that's nothing to spit at. According to our AD, there are some nice 3d tier revenue provisions that could be lucrative for SU and other elite level BB programs (Duke, UNC).

You might have heard that Mike Hopkins (former SU BB player, from CA) is the "coach in waiting". He's an excellent recruiter and assistant, who's been with the program ... geez 16 years +.

Thanks for the info! I am familiar with the players from last year's team and the recruits coming in. DC2 could be a really good player. I am really hoping SU makes another strong run next year, I think the potential is there even though we are losing a lot.

As far as Baylor, we did have a very good year and have been steadily building a strong program under Scott Drew (Elite 8 2/3 years now). Had Q.Miller stayed instead of changing his mind and leaving for the NBA, Baylor would have been a top 5 caliber team going into next year. We will still be very good because of a solid returning group and a great recruiting class coming in but probably not a top 10 team to start (more like top 15).

Between Baylor and SU, I hope at least one of my teams makes a final four run next year!

 

[SoBeCuse]

Thanks for the info! I am familiar with the players from last year's team and the recruits coming in. DC2 could be a really good player. I am really hoping SU makes another strong run next year, I think the potential is there even though we are losing a lot.

As far as Baylor, we did have a very good year and have been steadily building a strong program under Scott Drew (Elite 8 2/3 years now). Had Q.Miller stayed instead of changing his mind and leaving for the NBA, Baylor would have been a top 5 caliber team going into next year. We will still be very good because of a solid returning group and a great recruiting class coming in but probably not a top 10 team to start (more like top 15).

Between Baylor and SU, I hope at least one of my teams makes a final four run next year!

Welcome as well. I have enjoyed watching Baylor play the past few years. They even perhaps have SU beaten with the length/athleticism/eye-test stuff. Both have underacheived imo in the postseason considering the talent brought in. Obviously Baylor has used the 2-3 although less as of late so there is even more of a common thread between the two teams. I was especially disappointed when the Udoh team lost to Duke in what was a Sweet 16 match I think.

 

[rrlbees]

1a) Is there any chance SU bball could still be penalized by the NCAA for either the B.Fine scandal: NO
1b) or the failed drugs tests issue that was reported: NO

1a no. 1b yes.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[ORRange]

Realignment in the ACC and the drug issue should be the major concern of any SU BB fan . Fine and the next coach are non issues. A short time ago , Kansas was in dire straits and was in danger of being left behind in the 64 scenario. It now looks like L'ville and Kansas are in a better position than Syracuse and Pitt. For all those football fans that felt the move to the ACC was a godsend I think they should take a good hard look in the mirror. Be careful what you wish for. The ACC should have been more aggressive and included two more schools. W.Va. is in a way better place than we are. If FSU and Clemson leave the ACC we are screwed. But the football junkies will argue about these points. Syracuse has painted themselves into a corner and to deny this is akin to being an ostrich. Let's see how it plays out and keep our fingers crossed.

 

[syr02esq]

Hi guys, I am fairly new to this board. Just to give you my background, I went to Baylor for undergrad and am getting my masters through SU. I have been a big Baylor fan (a big college bball and football fan in general) for a while and recently started following SU basketball as a fan even though I have been pretty familiar with its success over the years.

I am sure these topics have already been discussed but if you guys can offer your thoughts and insight on these, I would really appreciate it:

1) Is there any chance SU bball could still be penalized by the NCAA for either the B.Fine scandal or the failed drugs tests issue that was reported?

2) I am sure everyone is following this round of realignment talk which unfortunately is heavily driven by football success. So let's say the absolute worst case scenario where we end up with a 4x16 scenario and SU is not able to make it into one of the four power conferences, do you think that SU bball will be able to sustain its prominence as an elite basketball program in what would be a non-power conference(again, as defined by football)? Is it sustainable once JB retires as coach? Does SU have a plan in place or is JB still pretty far off from retirement?

I know that’s a lot of questions in one post but having gone through the nightmare scenario of Baylor being “left behind” last year’s realignment talk and the bball scandal from a decade back, I certainly hope SU survives and flourishes going forward (as Baylor is right now). Having a rooting interest in both the Big12 and ACC, I hope to have some good conversations with you guys going forward.

Welcome OrangeBear! I'm also a Baylor alumnus and received two degrees from Syracuse. I follow both programs closely. I think the others answered your questions so I just wanted to say hello. Sic 'em Bears!

 

[OrangeBear]

Welcome as well. I have enjoyed watching Baylor play the past few years. They even perhaps have SU beaten with the length/athleticism/eye-test stuff. Both have underacheived imo in the postseason considering the talent brought in. Obviously Baylor has used the 2-3 although less as of late so there is even more of a common thread between the two teams. I was especially disappointed when the Udoh team lost to Duke in what was a Sweet 16 match I think.

The 09-10 team lead by Udoh was probably the best team Baylor has ever had or at least in a very long time. That team did lose to Duke but it was in the Elite 8. If I recall correctly, we were winning with a few minutes left and then there was a very controversial foul called against Baylor(which clearly should have gone against Duke) and we ended up losing a close game to the eventual champion.

This year's team was probably more talented but not as good defensively and not as cohesive. We had Final Four caliber talent but didn't quite play to that level and unfortunately ran into Kentucky (CLEARLY the best team) in the Elite 8.

You are right that BU and SU are similar in many ways with playing the zone being a key similarity. Frankly, I think SU is really good at playing it and Baylor is equally as bad at it. I really wish Scott Drew would drop the zone as the primary defensive scheme and focus on teaching man to man. I think Baylor's zone got badly exposed this year when playing against top level competition such as Kansas, Mizzu and UK.

Even though both teams are losing a lot from this year’s team, hoping for big things from both BU and SU in 12-13.

 

[OrangeBear]

Realignment in the ACC and the drug issue should be the major concern of any SU BB fan . Fine and the next coach are non issues. A short time ago , Kansas was in dire straits and was in danger of being left behind in the 64 scenario. It now looks like L'ville and Kansas are in a better position than Syracuse and Pitt. For all those football fans that felt the move to the ACC was a godsend I think they should take a good hard look in the mirror. Be careful what you wish for. The ACC should have been more aggressive and included two more schools. W.Va. is in a way better place than we are. If FSU and Clemson leave the ACC we are screwed. But the football junkies will argue about these points. Syracuse has painted themselves into a corner and to deny this is akin to being an ostrich. Let's see how it plays out and keep our fingers crossed.

I am very worried for SU as well. I love college bball and football but when it comes to SU, I care a lot more about the bball program sustaining it's elite level of play and recognition as a powerhouse team and my worry is about the possibility of SU being "left behind" and ending up in a conference that is not nearly as good as the Big East has been for bball. I think the ACC will survive as a bball conference even if Florida State and Clemson leave but UNC and Duke both need to stay in conference for it to be a great bball conference. If they leave then the ACC is pretty much over as an elite conference for both football and bball.

Is the "drugs issue" something bad enough to where SU could get a postseason ban? I can't think of a direct comparion.

 

[OrangeBear]

Welcome OrangeBear! I'm also a Baylor alumnus and received two degrees from Syracuse. I follow both programs closely. I think the others answered your questions so I just wanted to say hello. Sic 'em Bears!

That's awesome! I was wondering if there were other people with this combination of schools. Sic Em Bears and Go Orange!

 

[SoBeCuse]

The 09-10 team lead by Udoh was probably the best team Baylor has ever had or at least in a very long time. That team did lose to Duke but it was in the Elite 8. If I recall correctly, we were winning with a few minutes left and then there was a very controversial foul called against Baylor(which clearly should have gone against Duke) and we ended up losing a close game to the eventual champion.

This year's team was probably more talented but not as good defensively and not as cohesive. We had Final Four caliber talent but didn't quite play to that level and unfortunately ran into Kentucky (CLEARLY the best team) in the Elite 8.

You are right that BU and SU are similar in many ways with playing the zone being a key similarity. Frankly, I think SU is really good at playing it and Baylor is equally as bad at it. I really wish Scott Drew would drop the zone as the primary defensive scheme and focus on teaching man to man. I think Baylor's zone got badly exposed this year when playing against top level competition such as Kansas, Mizzu and UK.

Even though both teams are losing a lot from this year’s team, hoping for big things from both BU and SU in 12-13.

Yep. I just seem to remember Duke killing Baylor on the glass in the 2H which was a big surprise to me. Lots of second chances. Cheers!

 

[BlackKnight76]

I had Baylor going to the final four in 09-10. Damn Dukies (and Butler, natch)

 

[OttoMets]

The 09-10 team lead by Udoh was probably the best team Baylor has ever had or at least in a very long time. That team did lose to Duke but it was in the Elite 8. If I recall correctly, we were winning with a few minutes left and then there was a very controversial foul called against Baylor(which clearly should have gone against Duke) and we ended up losing a close game to the eventual champion.

It was a horrific call. Baylor got jobbed.

 

[RandygoCuse]

I'm more concerned about the next head coach then the drug stuff. I honestly don't know how Hopkins will be as a head coach.

 

[TexanMark]

That's awesome! I was wondering if there were other people with this combination of schools. Sic Em Bears and Go Orange!

Hey I always buy gas at Midway Pilot when traveling north on I-35 and even stopped at the Fruitcake Shop near Bellmead before...and yes Waco is getting big time now with the Hwy 6 Overpass and the Big Boxes being built on the South Side. Cuse and Baylor are pretty similar schools (save for the fact Baylor is more Christian and Fundamental). It wouldn't be a bad series to schedule down the road...I know Baylor played UConn in FB.

 

[syr02esq]

That's awesome! I was wondering if there were other people with this combination of schools. Sic Em Bears and Go Orange!

I'm not sure if there are here on this board but when I was at Syracuse I met several who attended Baylor.