SU/JAB: "Officially" King of the Comeback
- Thread starter SU94
- Start date
Valid question. I really think there are precious few because JAB understands math, especially in the game’s final five minutes. Some here call it the slide rule.
There was the debacle loss against Pitt when Paul Harris did about three Paul Harris things in the last few minutes to steal defeat from the clutches of victory (love Paul, but that was an afternoon to forget).
Outside of the last few minutes of the game, we blew a big lead in the NIT to UMass. Johnny Flynn at the helm.
I can guarantee, without proof
, that no one is close, especially against an amazing cross section of P-5 programs and coaches. We have a lot of CBB fans here. Name some large comebacks. I will start: Duke and Jason Williams beat Maryland on the road after tailing ~9 with under 1 minute left. Dean Smith and UNC had a famous one in the 1970s I think, that was similar to the Duke game I just referenced. And NC State had at least one huge comeback during their title run in 1983. And Princeton had an all-timer in 1999, as they fell behind Penn 29-3 late in the first half, 33-9 at halftime. But the Tigers rallied from a 40-13 second-half deficit and staged the fourth-biggest comeback in N.C.A.A. Division I history, defeating Penn, 50-49.See, we have more than anyone combined! (I kid, I kid)
But think about it. You have to have a lot of talent mixed with a lot of flaws to fall WAY behind and comeback to win. I'd argue you have to have some distinct traits too, like a zone and a press that is less predicated on making steals in the backcourt and instead relies on speeding up the team with the lead (lot of coaches try to avoid embarrassing losses instead of trying to win). Our program has all that "proper mix." Duke, Kentucky, Michigan State don't fall behind like that too often (outside of 2020-21). And middling teams like, say, UConn, Illinois and UNLV don't have the heart/stomach or offensive talent to end of up on top in these type of games.
I really think that JAB, for all his flaws, has showcased gameplans B, C, and D to try to win EVERY NIGHT. Mike Brey had one game plan yesterday. And it worked remarkably well for ~25 minutes. After that, and ND's 98.7% win probability with 15 minutes left, he was spent. Nothing left to give. Meanwhile, JAB has the regular zone. And the regular zone with adjustments. And in the old days, he'd switch to man-to-man or a half-court trap (the Wake Forest victory in my original post). And in these modern times, the old man has the speed-'em-up press that's befuddled ND, Tony Bennett and a senior-laden team in '16 and many others.
Teams will have some or a few of these epic moments. No one (or no program) has at least 15 (and likely more).
Last edited:
Solid comeback, nothing too, too amazing. But in line with this thread for sure.
Syracuse rallied from a 13-point first-half deficit, its biggest
comeback of the season. Shumpert's baseline jumper tied the game
43-all with 11:41 left.
The Bulldogs threatened to run away with the game, going
7-for-15 on 3-pointers in the first half. Darnell Archey's
fastbreak 3-pointer with ½ minutes left in the half started Butler
on a 15-6 spurt. A 3-pointer by Mike Monserez and a pullup jumper
by Jackson gave the Bulldogs their biggest lead -- 35-22 with 3:29
left.
Syracuse closed the half with a 9-2 run keyed by Shumpert, who
almost singlehandedly kept the Orangemen in the game.
He began the surge with a layup, Warrick scored off a
give-and-go with Craig Forth, and Shumpert finished it with a
3-pointer to pull the Orangemen within 37-31 at halftime.
(AP)
djcon57
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 15,157
- Like
- 53,683
was there. Still believe to this day that small NIT run helped Hak’s confidence so much out that it ultimately helped us win next year
HoustonCuse
2020-21 Iggy Winner Lead Scorer & Post Season Rcd
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2011
- Messages
- 11,299
- Like
- 25,224
As Charlie Murphy might've said "Trunk Monkey is a helluva drug!"
Chip
Creature of Bad Habits
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 28,269
- Like
- 75,652
I assumed you had them all written down in a notebook somewhere.
Sherman20
2018 Iggy Leading Scorer Winner
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2017
- Messages
- 6,067
- Like
- 15,058
Of course you would.
Capt. Tuttle
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2011
- Messages
- 25,571
- Like
- 35,939
Down 11. 2:21 left. At home vs Manhattan
cuse.com
Men's Basketball Beats Manhattan in Overtime, 87-82 - Syracuse University Athletics
SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- The Syracuse men's basketball team came back from an 11-point deficit and outscored Manhattan 26-10 during the game's final eight minute...
No memory of this one. None. How did we go up by 20 and enetually trail by 11 to a winless Manhattan squad? In one half? Did everyone head to Varsity at the halftime? Crazy.Down 11. 2:21 left. At home vs Manhattan
Men's Basketball Beats Manhattan in Overtime, 87-82 - Syracuse University Athletics
SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- The Syracuse men's basketball team came back from an 11-point deficit and outscored Manhattan 26-10 during the game's final eight minute...
Capt. Tuttle
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2011
- Messages
- 25,571
- Like
- 35,939
Was at that game. Gotta say I started out the doors at about the 4 minute time out. Made it back though
TinyManInside
Our only goal will be the western shores.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,784
- Like
- 9,520
Shumpert was awesome that night IIRC. At least 30 points I think.
TinyManInside
Our only goal will be the western shores.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,784
- Like
- 9,520
Pitino's UK team down 31 to LSU was the best comeback I ever witnessed.I can guarantee, without proof
See, we have more than anyone combined! (I kid, I kid)
But think about it. You have to have a lot of talent mixed with a lot of flaws to fall WAY behind and comeback to win. I'd argue you have to have some distinct traits too, like a zone and a press that is less predicated on making steals in the backcourt and instead relies on speeding up the team with the lead (lot of coaches try to avoid embarrassing losses instead of trying to win). Our program has all that "proper mix." Duke, Kentucky, Michigan State don't fall behind like that too often (outside of 2020-21). And middling teams like, say, UConn, Illinois and UNLV don't have the heart/stomach or offensive talent to end of up on top in these type of games.
I really think that JAB, for all his flaws, has showcased gameplans B, C, and D to try to win EVERY NIGHT. Mike Brey had one game plan yesterday. And it worked remarkably well for ~25 minutes. After that, and ND's 98.7% win probability with 15 minutes left, he was spent. Nothing left to give. Meanwhile, JAB has the regular zone. And the regular zone with adjustments. And in the old days, he'd switch to man-to-man or a half-court trap (the Wake Forest victory in my original post). And in these modern times, the old man has the speed-'em-up press that's befuddled ND, Tony Bennett and a senior-laden team in '16 and many others.
Teams will have some or a few of these epic moments. No one (or no program) has at least 15 (and likely more).
Saying "we have the most" with zero research to back it up is worthless. Boeheim has certainly orchestrated a ton of amazing comebacks, but as a professional scientist, "belief" based reasoning is maddening to me. A hypothesis with no evidence is just a guess at best.
[Not saying this to take anything away from Boeheim, you need a ton of comebacks to win > 1000 games. That said, by sheer number of games coached he has a distinct advantage in total number of comeback wins vs other coaches. A better measure of a coach's ability to orchestrate comebacks would be percentage of games won by comeback.]
NineOneSeven
2018-19 Iggy Hoops Leader Scorer
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 40,621
- Like
- 70,894
And also better teams will have less chances for comebacks because they were not down to begin with.
Well, it is not worthless, as it started a discussion. And I am pretty sure that more than once I made it pretty obvious my “King of” declaration was in jest. I also have dug up plenty of evidence, albeit circumstantial.
That said, I do believe it to be true. So, it is a hypothesis, right? And yes, JAB had been around for a ~half century, but the lump sum of these comebacks have occurred this millennium, when the ingredients have been at peak: very good SU talent (not great, like the 80s and 90s), unique traits (zone/press), willingness to freelance or transition to new game plan, willingness to risk a huge or embarrassing loss to go for the long-shot win, shorter shot clock, lack of fundamentals the game, younger talent throughout the game.
Correct, Boeheim is going to have the most as he’s coached so long. But SU is gonna at or near the top of any program.
I might be able to track this down. Fingers crossed.
Last edited:
SWC75
Bored Historian
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 32,525
- Like
- 62,724
Checked in with a friend at the Elias Sports Bureau and they don't have this granular detail, at least not as compared to pro sports. College sports data/statistics is like the Wild West. Some schools have it and are very organized, others are not. Plus, there is no centralization. That is not at all a commentary on SU's SID Office by the way, it is a truth that say ... UNC or Arizona might have "this much" data, but UTEP or Wofford does not. Just another reason that P5s need to break away.
NorSyr66
All Conference
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,323
- Like
- 5,788
Good point Capt and I agree we do not have all the information. I am not trying to nor want to extend the debate because I do think JB is an excellent coach. I was only questioning what appeared to be some very strange coaching decisions over the past few years, at least from my view point. I hear the argument about "bad practices" but here we are at the end of February and we are still having "bad practices" and all the players except five? Bad practices need to reflect on the coaches also! I need to stop.
