SU's financial stress

[shandeezy7]

The ROI on jobs like Social Work is really problematic. My wife also received her MSW from Syracuse. I'm not really a proponent of student loan forgiveness but something needs to be done to entice smart, hardworking people to take on these human services positions. There is a huge need in education (not necessarily talking about teachers, but SWs, school psyches, OT/PTs, nurses, etc.), social services, and medicine and there are not enough qualified people ready, willing, or able to take on such roles.

I don't blame anyone for focussing on a trade. At some point though, the compensation rates for those jobs are going to market correct. I pay $250 per hour labor rate for a plumber largely because it's hard to find a plumber so they can set their own price. Presumably, with more people focused on vocational training, the competition should start to drive down their rates.

This sounds like more people going into the trades isn't actually good for the people who work in the trades.

 

[PAcuse]

So should we eliminate social workers?

Same thing when they where telling everyone to learn to code. Now the IT field is brutal.
Trade fields I don't think we end that way as it is still hard to get kids to go into, ALOT still have the idea that college is still the right thing to do to get ahead.

 

[shandeezy7]

Same thing when they where telling everyone to learn to code. Now the IT field is brutal.
Trade fields I don't think we end that way as it is still hard to get kids to go into, ALOT still have the idea that college is still the right thing to do to get ahead.

College still is the right thing to do to get ahead for many, many people. Trade schools are also the right way to go for others. What needs fixing is the discernment process, so that kids know exactly what they are getting into regardless of what route they choose. Despite the well-publicized debt issues associated with Higher Ed - which I fully agree deserve to be addressed - study after study after study has shown that your earning power over your lifetime is greater with a college education:

Income Gap Between Householders With College Degrees and Those With High School Degrees but No College Widened Over Last Two Decades

U.S. median inflation-adjusted income for householders age 25 and over rose 18% from 2004 to 2024 but income gains varied widely by education levels.

www.census.gov

I will also say that this idea that every worker in this country should simply be robots methodically trained in one skill is offensive to me. Throwing writing skills, critical thinking skills, research skills, conflict management skills, etc. etc. by the wayside will not result in a net positive for society.

 

[JRHEETER]

College still is the right thing to do to get ahead for many, many people. Trade schools are also the right way to go for others. What needs fixing is the discernment process, so that kids know exactly what they are getting into regardless of what route they choose. Despite the well-publicized debt issues associated with Higher Ed - which I fully agree deserve to be addressed - study after study after study has shown that your earning power over your lifetime is greater with a college education:

Income Gap Between Householders With College Degrees and Those With High School Degrees but No College Widened Over Last Two Decades

U.S. median inflation-adjusted income for householders age 25 and over rose 18% from 2004 to 2024 but income gains varied widely by education levels.

www.census.gov

I will also say that this idea that every worker in this country should simply be robots methodically trained in one skill is offensive to me. Throwing writing skills, critical thinking skills, research skills, conflict management skills, etc. etc. by the wayside will not result in a net positive for society.

The problem is we over saturated the college market. By telling every single kid in high school through the 90s and 2000's that they needed to go to college. By doing this, folks that have college degrees now are taking entry level jobs that start around 30-35k. This is completely unacceptable. However, corporations do not need to pay more because a 4 year college educated student is a dime a dozen at this point. There are thousands of them looking for jobs. A larger chunk of college students are now taking jobs that do not require college degrees and working their way up through the ranks that way and getting real life experience as opposed to what was taught to them in college. They are actually learning their jobs and real life skills.

Of course not going to college is not for everyone, but we need to stop saying that essentially you will only make a good living by going to college because that is an antiquated way of thinking.

 

[Newhouser]

In NYS if you want to live a nice life and retire before you're 90 get into the system. Teacher, Town, County, City, State whatever - my niece and nephew got in right out of school and will be retired before me.

 

[PAcuse]

College still is the right thing to do to get ahead for many, many people. Trade schools are also the right way to go for others. What needs fixing is the discernment process, so that kids know exactly what they are getting into regardless of what route they choose. Despite the well-publicized debt issues associated with Higher Ed - which I fully agree deserve to be addressed - study after study after study has shown that your earning power over your lifetime is greater with a college education:

Income Gap Between Householders With College Degrees and Those With High School Degrees but No College Widened Over Last Two Decades

U.S. median inflation-adjusted income for householders age 25 and over rose 18% from 2004 to 2024 but income gains varied widely by education levels.

www.census.gov

I will also say that this idea that every worker in this country should simply be robots methodically trained in one skill is offensive to me. Throwing writing skills, critical thinking skills, research skills, conflict management skills, etc. etc. by the wayside will not result in a net positive for society.

I'm still in support of kids going college route IF it is correct for them and the fully understand what they are getting into.
Honestly I feel the High Schools have been failing kids for a very long time and real change needs to happen with what they are taught and guidance they are given.

 

[whobut03]

So should we eliminate social workers?

Where did i say that?

You asked about degrees that don’t have the ROI. I gave you one.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

An all in four year degree at SU runs 350 to 400 k. For that money you better be prepared for a great career, marry really well or be a trust fund baby. I agree that some fluff prepares a well rounded person but one better be employable in a high potential field.

Part of that is a shell game. They give significant financial aide and scholarships to reduce the actual cost, but foreign students aren’t eligible for financial aid, so they pay the full shot.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Same thing when they where telling everyone to learn to code. Now the IT field is brutal.
Trade fields I don't think we end that way as it is still hard to get kids to go into, ALOT still have the idea that college is still the right thing to do to get ahead.

agreed and that is fine.

There are already a lot of kids in trades that should not be whether their dad was, they dropped out of college or they were talked into it out of HS. Much like a kid with interest in learning a trade many times isn't cut out for college, some kids are still better off going to college as opposed to becoming an electrician or a carpenter. You have to be cut out for it, it's hard work and many kids can't stay off their phones long enough to actually work in a trade. ( I live it everyday for the past 30 years) We also have some super young tradespeople that work for us because they enjoy the work and want to continue to progress in their career, not because it made financial sense as opposed to college, they never wanted to go to college in the first place

It's not just about what can you do to make $.

 

[shandeezy7]

The problem is we over saturated the college market. By telling every single kid in high school through the 90s and 2000's that they needed to go to college. By doing this, folks that have college degrees now are taking entry level jobs that start around 30-35k. This is completely unacceptable. However, corporations do not need to pay more because a 4 year college educated student is a dime a dozen at this point. There are thousands of them looking for jobs. A larger chunk of college students are now taking jobs that do not require college degrees and working their way up through the ranks that way and getting real life experience as opposed to what was taught to them in college. They are actually learning their jobs and real life skills.

Of course not going to college is not for everyone, but we need to stop saying that essentially you will only make a good living by going to college because that is an antiquated way of thinking.

If you flip that on its head and flood the trades with young people, won't it have the exact same effect in those positions then?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If you flip that on its head and flood the trades with young people, won't it have the exact same effect in those positions then?

There is a long long ways to go, long way before the trades are flooded with young people, in fact I just don't see it ever happening. Many like the idea until they actually have to show up 5 days a week from 7 am - 3:30 Pm, and only get to check their phones at break time and lunch, which is 45 minutes of an 8 hour day. Checking your IG and texts 15-20 times throughout the day isn't part of the job description. the horror!

 

[texascpa]

So should we eliminate social workers?

yes

 

[shandeezy7]

yes

Ok.

 

[jr4750]

Interesting piece, somewhat relevant to cost issues in general:

https://www.pwc.com/us/en/library/case-studies/syracuse-ai-enabled-campus.html

 

[PhatOrange]

The ROI on jobs like Social Work is really problematic. My wife also received her MSW from Syracuse. I'm not really a proponent of student loan forgiveness but something needs to be done to entice smart, hardworking people to take on these human services positions. There is a huge need in education (not necessarily talking about teachers, but SWs, school psyches, OT/PTs, nurses, etc.), social services, and medicine and there are not enough qualified people ready, willing, or able to take on such roles.

I don't blame anyone for focussing on a trade. At some point though, the compensation rates for those jobs are going to market correct. I pay $250 per hour labor rate for a plumber largely because it's hard to find a plumber so they can set their own price. Presumably, with more people focused on vocational training, the competition should start to drive down their rates.

You need to learn how to do your own plumbing ;-) Or maybe you know how. I do all that stuff myself but now I pay others because I don't feel like doing it myself. Lol

 

[OrangeTarheel]

One of the consequences of having fewer competent trades people in an area is that people learn to do the work themselves because, as I’ve found out a few times, less competition allows less competent trades people to stay afloat.

It does strike me as odd that a hedge fund manager can make more in a year than a social worker does in a decade.

 

[Eric15]

yes

How does that work though? Like for instance who would conduct welfare checks to make sure potentially abused children are safe? And that's only like one of one hundred extremely important things they do while chronically overworked and underpaid.

 

[shandeezy7]

How does that work though? Like for instance who would conduct welfare checks to make sure potentially abused children are safe? And that's only like one of one hundred extremely important things they do while chronically underworked and overpaid.

An electrician, apparently.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Part of that is a shell game. They give significant financial aide and scholarships to reduce the actual cost, but foreign students aren’t eligible for financial aid, so they pay the full shot.

And the foreign students are being discouraged big time by our government from attending.

 

[JoeCollege]

The problem is we over saturated the college market. By telling every single kid in high school through the 90s and 2000's that they needed to go to college. By doing this, folks that have college degrees now are taking entry level jobs that start around 30-35k. This is completely unacceptable. However, corporations do not need to pay more because a 4 year college educated student is a dime a dozen at this point. There are thousands of them looking for jobs. A larger chunk of college students are now taking jobs that do not require college degrees and working their way up through the ranks that way and getting real life experience as opposed to what was taught to them in college. They are actually learning their jobs and real life skills.

Of course not going to college is not for everyone, but we need to stop saying that essentially you will only make a good living by going to college because that is an antiquated way of thinking.

I spent 25 years in higher ed and am now in the HR space. And you are spot on.