SVP about to talk about JB | Syracusefan.com

SVP about to talk about JB

Is he Tom Izzo, no. Ah, JB is 4-1 against Izzo.
 
dasher said:
Is he Tom Izzo, no. Ah, JB is 4-1 against Izzo.
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So from what I got, JB is not a top 10 coach, he has just done an amazing job for an insane amount of time?
 
CuseTroop said:
So from what I got, JB is not a top 10 coach, he has just done an amazing job for an insane amount of time?
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It seems to be it was an attempt at a mild rebuke of Gottlieb. These guys don't look inside the numbers at all. It's not just 903 wins. It is the best record in the best basketball league over that time. It is beating the best coaches head to head over that time. Of Coach Knights 902 wins, 102 of them were at Army. And he has had more first round flame outs than jb. Not tryin g to knock coach Knight at all. Just a little perspective. JB is in the conversation. He is also not finished. The win total will only go up.
 
dasher said:
It seems to be it was an attempt at a mild rebuke of Gottlieb. These guys don't look inside the numbers at all. It's not just 903 wins. It is the best record in the best basketball league over that time. It is beating the best coaches head to head over that time. Of Coach Knights 902 wins, 102 of them were at Army. And he has had more first round flame outs than jb. Not tryin g to knock coach Knight at all. Just a little perspective. JB is in the conversation. He is also not finished. The win total will only go up.
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as someone on here mentioned, the only difference between jb and knight is keith smart's shot. that misses and they each have 2 titles.
 
CorduroyG said:
as someone on here mentioned, the only difference between jb and knight is keith smart's shot. that misses and they each have 2 titles.
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and that difference looks like a canyon on paper, unfortunately.
 
CorduroyG said:
as someone on here mentioned, the only difference between jb and knight is keith smart's shot. that misses and they each have 2 titles.
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Yeah I never thought about it like that until someone brought it up on the board a few weeks back. Knight has 5 final fours, so he's a few ahead of JB on that account.

If you look at his record though; he kinda did slow a lot at the end. His last 4 years at Indiana he won a little over 20 games per year and finished around 5th in the league every year; and went 2-4 in the tournament. Then at Texas Tech he was really mediocre as well; he coached 6 full seasons there and won 3 NCAA tournament games. So in his last 10 seasons as a coach, he won 5 NCAA tournament games.

JB had a little stretch like that; the 05-08 period where he didn't win an NCAA tournament game and missed the dance twice. But he's obviously rebounded really strongly since then.

Of course, now to defend Knight; his 75 team had a great chance at winning the title but Scott May broke his arm. So he was possibly one injury away from 4 titles. (That's more of a rebuttal to any possible comment on JB having a title won in 10 but for AO getting hurt and pointing out that it works both ways. Indiana over those 2 years lost one game total, and it was when May was trying to play through the injury. )
 
CorduroyG said:
as someone on here mentioned, the only difference between jb and knight is keith smart's shot. that misses and they each have 2 titles.
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or, from another point of view, the only difference is JB's tactical blunder of conceding the rebound on DC's free throw attempt . . . which puts a little bit more distance between the two
 
CorduroyG said:
as someone on here mentioned, the only difference between jb and knight is keith smart's shot. that misses and they each have 2 titles.
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That someone was CuseFanAtl :)

and that was right after the 900th win. So literally, that shot clanks off the rim and they both would have had 901 wins and 2 titles.
 
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CusefanATL said:
That someone was CuseFanAtl :)

and that was right after the 900th win. So literally, that shot clanks off the rim and they both would have had 901 wins and 2 titles.
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Sports is a game of inches...just ask Jeff Fischer! How his legacy would be viewed with another half yard..
 
moqui said:
or, from another point of view, the only difference is JB's tactical blunder of conceding the rebound on DC's free throw attempt . . . which puts a little bit more distance between the two
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Right, because the chance of getting an offensive rebound on a free throw is so much higher than fouling while trying to get said rebound.
 
Capt. Tuttle said:
Right, because the chance of getting an offensive rebound on a free throw is so much higher than fouling while trying to get said rebound.
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it's not necessarily about getting the offensive board . . . conceding the rebound allowed Indiana to set up their offense unimpeded. I think it was a panic move and one of the few mistakes in JB's career.
 
MyMeloMyMan said:
Sports is a game of inches...just ask Jeff Fischer! How his legacy would be viewed with another half yard..
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He would've gone to overtime after having the wildcard game rigged in his favor.
 
Knicks411 said:
Yeah I never thought about it like that until someone brought it up on the board a few weeks back. Knight has 5 final fours, so he's a few ahead of JB on that account.

If you look at his record though; he kinda did slow a lot at the end. His last 4 years at Indiana he won a little over 20 games per year and finished around 5th in the league every year; and went 2-4 in the tournament. Then at Texas Tech he was really mediocre as well; he coached 6 full seasons there and won 3 NCAA tournament games. So in his last 10 seasons as a coach, he won 5 NCAA tournament games.

JB had a little stretch like that; the 05-08 period where he didn't win an NCAA tournament game and missed the dance twice. But he's obviously rebounded really strongly since then.

Of course, now to defend Knight; his 75 team had a great chance at winning the title but Scott May broke his arm. So he was possibly one injury away from 4 titles. (That's more of a rebuttal to any possible comment on JB having a title won in 10 but for AO getting hurt and pointing out that it works both ways. Indiana over those 2 years lost one game total, and it was when May was trying to play through the injury. )
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I do a lot of defending media/ESPN on this board but if I have a major pet peeve with the worldwide leader it's this -- they take a story that is really pretty amazing in and of itself and find some way to turn it into a completely arbitrary sports talk radio-style argument.

JB has won 903 games ... at the highest level in the best league ... in one spot ... at a school in the absolute middle of nowhere. That's the whole story. Where he ranks on the list of "best coaches"? Who knows? What does that actually have to do with anything?

And what metric does one use anyway? Is Mark Few not a great coach b/c he hasn't won a title? Is JB to be praised for getting to the tournament 948 times without a slew of NBA stars or to be criticized b/c he hasn't had more deep runs/titles? Does Dean Smith get knocked b/c he found whatever means necessary to acquire an absurd amount of talent or is that exactly what you want in a coach?

At the end of the day, JB's ability to adapt and stay relevant and just continually win 20+ games every year for as long as he's been doing it is remarkable. And only an elite coach can pull it off. Saying he's not Izzo or K or Knight is like saying Bob Dylan isn't John Lennon -- you're talking about two song-writing icons with no discernible way of coming to any definitive answer. Drives me crazy. Hopefully tomorrow they'll be back to trying to rank Kobe among the greatest NBA players ever so I can go back to ignoring them.
 
midloviking said:
or Scott Norwood
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Found this in a resturant bathroom in Geneva a few years ago
 
CusefanATL said:
That someone was CuseFanAtl :)

and that was right after the 900th win. So literally, that shot clanks off the rim and they both would have had 901 wins and 2 titles.
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I think some are misintrepreting ATL's post. My interpretation is "if K. Smart's shot had clanked off the rim they both would have had 901 wins and 2 titles". Without reviewing the game tape, my understanding is that DC missed the FT and, by having his team set in their D, JB was ready for any offensive set and eliminated the likelihood of a rebound-and-break score.

It seems to me that JB (as usual) played the percentages and did the right thing. We're talking about a coach that has been to multiple title games and performed exceptionally well in what is arguably the best conference over the past 15 years.

WRT any arguments on this board, my only question is... why?
 
CorduroyG said:
as someone on here mentioned, the only difference between jb and knight is keith smart's shot. that misses and they each have 2 titles.
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Not a coaching decision, but the real turning point in that game was when we were up 52-44 and on the verge of blowing them out. Greg Monroe has the ball in the middle of a three on one break, and instead of driving and dishing for an easy two, he pulls up for a three (first year of the three in college, IIRC), and misses. Indiana gets the rebound, scores, momentum swings back, and it is a tight game the rest of the way.
 
moqui said:
or, from another point of view, the only difference is JB's tactical blunder of conceding the rebound on DC's free throw attempt . . . which puts a little bit more distance between the two
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I don't think it was a blunder at all. Smart had got a fast break off of triches missed free throw just a bit earlier when we did have people at the line.
 
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