Syracuse 2016-2017 Preseason Practice Report

[RF2044]

LOL. Grow some thicker skin. Everyone has been wrong before.

As you said to me about a prior post - which, by the way, responded to a personal attack on me from you, but I digress - ignore the posts if you don't like them.

Thanks, Dad--great talk.

BTW, with all of these former name changes--are you the poster known as formerly as either DocSU or DSyr? Because that makes this exchange a lot funnier.

 

[RF2044]

I don't care whether it's basketball or football, when it comes to SU sports and this forum, pre-season optimism is the rule (and gets the most likes). This is not unique.

The former head of the federal reserve board, Alan Greenspan, has a term for it "irrational exuberance".

It takes courage and the ability to accept being wrong to express strong opinions before the first tip off or kick off.

I almost always refrain.

Are you also familiar with the expression that hindsight is 20/20? It is easy to criticize things now, with the season unfolding as a natural disaster, but not one poster expected nor predicted things to happen the way that they have. Because this level of debacle is unprecedented in the Jim Boeheim era.

It wasn't "irrational" nor "exuberance" -- none other than James Arthur Boeheim himself told Andy Katz before the season that "this is the best team we've had in a long time.'' This is a coach who normally sells expectations short, and is hardly effusive with praise. He did the opposite this preseason--was he "irrationally exuberant," or do you think he genuinely believed that this team had the potential to be something great?

Nobody saw this epic disaster coming--and it would be completely revisionist to claim otherwise. What we're seeing play out defies explanation--it honestly does. In JB's 40+ years at the helm, it isn't a stretch to suggest that we've never had a team perform as badly as this one has, or underachieve to the extent this one is. Systemic failures on many levels, from the coaching staff on down to the players. The whole is exponentially less than the sum of the individual parts.

I can definitely accept that some of my predictions were wrong--most notably the one about this being a top 5 wire to wire caliber team. I've never been a poster who's even cared much about my predictions coming true, or what I say proving right.** Who cares? I do these practice reports because I'm lucky to have a limited ability to have access to hoops practice, and I offer them as my observations / insight as a former player, lifelong fan, and student of the game. People are free to read them, consider them, agree with them, or disagree with them. But I try to be pragmatic and objective about the observations and the player analysis, and I'm still occasionally wrong. Just like everybody else.

But I think it is safe to say that JB--a HOF coach--had similar expectations for this team as what I suggested in this write up, based upon his preseason comments. It wasn't "irrational exuberance." Some of the players haven't played to their potential, this group collectively isn't gelling, and the majority of them seem to not play with the necessary level of effort. I couldn't have predicted that latter issue--I figured coming off of a Final Four run, that Lydon, Howard, Roberson, and Coleman were keenly aware of what it takes to succeed at that level and would whip the rest of the team into shape.

I also though that Howard / Gillon / Battle would play much better than they have. Oops.




**I'll admit that one issue that stuck in my craw and made me dig in my heels this year was the arguments over whether White had the skills to be a 2. But that is because there was so much negative backlash directed my way over my observations over his limitations. I stuck to my guns and pushed back, and got dragged into a bunch of tiresome arguments over this issue that could and should have probably been avoided, and which were probably quite tedious for the rest of the board.

 

[bevosu]

Are you also familiar with the expression that hindsight is 20/20?

It wasn't "irrational" nor "exuberance" -- none other than James Arthur Boeheim himself told Andy Katz before the season that "this is the best team we've had in a long time.''

Nobody saw this epic disaster coming--and it would be completely revisionist to claim otherwise. What we're seeing play out defies explanation--it honestly does. In JB's 40+ years at the helm, it isn't a stretch to suggest that we've never had a team perform as badly as this one has, or underachieve to the extent this one is. Systemic failures on many levels, from the coaching staff on down to the players.

My post was not meant as a criticism of you or that particular post. Like I said there's an element of courage involved in going out on a limb with a positive (or negative) pre season post.

My post was only an opinion that most pre-season fan evaluations are on the irrational exuberance side. Check the past years summer football posts.

Like you say 20/20 hindsight is easy. I can understand fans being optimistic before a season starts.

If I have one personal quibble about some posts on this forum, it's the lack of wiggle room some posters leave themselves when they make absolute statements. 'This is a final four team". 'The football team is a lock for a bowl'. Etc. Pure blind fandom without any analysis to back them up.

I appreciate your basketball posts. You put a lot of thought and effort into them. I enjoy reading them.

You're human and (like me) can be wrong. White at the 2 guard?

I've always been a hope guy. Faith, not so much.

 

[RF2044]

My post was not meant as a criticism of you or that particular post. Like I said there's an element of courage involved in going out on a limb with a positive (or negative) pre season post.

My post was only an opinion that most pre-season fan evaluations are on the irrational exuberance side. Check the past years summer football posts.

Like you say 20/20 hindsight is easy. I can understand fans being optimistic before a season starts.

If I have one personal quibble about some posts on this forum, it's the lack of wiggle room some posters leave themselves when they make absolute statements. 'This is a final four team". 'The football team is a lock for a bowl'. Etc. Pure blind fandom without any analysis to back them up.

I appreciate your basketball posts. You put a lot of thought and effort into them. I enjoy reading them.

You're human and (like me) can be wrong. White at the 2 guard?

I've always been a hope guy. Faith, not so much.

Thank you--much appreciated.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I think he was watching the team that destroyed Eastern Michigan. It's not his fault we have a split personality. We are The Two-Face:

 

[iommi]

Bumping this post to point a finger at RF2044, one of the best and most valuable posters on this forum, is pure bush league. What is it intended to accomplish? All he did was give an honest evaluation of practice observations.

The bottom line is this team had a lot of potential ON PAPER to start this season. They have not gelled. If you want to put that on JB, the players, the system, whatever... Please do so. This season has been a colossal failure. It doesn't mean the observations weren't valid and valuable to the forum.

On a sort of side note, my biggest concern coming into this season was chemistry and that's a huge issue. Last year, we had guys who had played together for a long time start strong. That's why we won Atlantis. Well, we also had two newcomers shine in Mal and TL, but they were surrounded by guys who knew the system and that gave them comfort.

I said during our four game start I was worried about what I saw from AWIII. He looked like he was just a gunner and that he was auditioning. He didn't pass to open teammates and in a few games, looked to be trying to pad his stats. Someone said Lydon was, "exposed," when in reality it has been White.

 

[orangehomer]

Are you also familiar with the expression that hindsight is 20/20? It is easy to criticize things now, with the season unfolding as a natural disaster, but not one poster expected nor predicted things to happen the way that they have. Because this level of debacle is unprecedented in the Jim Boeheim era.

It wasn't "irrational" nor "exuberance" -- none other than James Arthur Boeheim himself told Andy Katz before the season that "this is the best team we've had in a long time.'' This is a coach who normally sells expectations short, and is hardly effusive with praise. He did the opposite this preseason--was he "irrationally exuberant," or do you think he genuinely believed that this team had the potential to be something great?

Nobody saw this epic disaster coming--and it would be completely revisionist to claim otherwise. What we're seeing play out defies explanation--it honestly does. In JB's 40+ years at the helm, it isn't a stretch to suggest that we've never had a team perform as badly as this one has, or underachieve to the extent this one is. Systemic failures on many levels, from the coaching staff on down to the players. The whole is exponentially less than the sum of the individual parts.

I can definitely accept that some of my predictions were wrong--most notably the one about this being a top 5 wire to wire caliber team. I've never been a poster who's even cared much about my predictions coming true, or what I say proving right.** Who cares? I do these practice reports because I'm lucky to have a limited ability to have access to hoops practice, and I offer them as my observations / insight as a former player, lifelong fan, and student of the game. People are free to read them, consider them, agree with them, or disagree with them. But I try to be pragmatic and objective about the observations and the player analysis, and I'm still occasionally wrong. Just like everybody else.

But I think it is safe to say that JB--a HOF coach--had similar expectations for this team as what I suggested in this write up, based upon his preseason comments. It wasn't "irrational exuberance." Some of the players haven't played to their potential, this group collectively isn't gelling, and the majority of them seem to not play with the necessary level of effort. I couldn't have predicted that latter issue--I figured coming off of a Final Four run, that Lydon, Howard, Roberson, and Coleman were keenly aware of what it takes to succeed at that level and would whip the rest of the team into shape.

I also though that Howard / Gillon / Battle would play much better than they have. Oops.




**I'll admit that one issue that stuck in my craw and made me dig in my heels this year was the arguments over whether White had the skills to be a 2. But that is because there was so much negative backlash directed my way over my observations over his limitations. I stuck to my guns and pushed back, and got dragged into a bunch of tiresome arguments over this issue that could and should have probably been avoided, and which were probably quite tedious for the rest of the board.

it's my fault, I shouldn't have dragged this up and made attacking-type posts. your a good poster, and I apologize.