Syracuse Football Recruiting - Lost the Core

[JimBoston]

FWIW and some NYS pride, I am pretty sure Rob Konrad was from NY; Lewiston area I believe.

He played 4 years of high school football at St. John's Prep in Danvers, MA

 

[OrangeJohn]

Do you really think you can recruit the top players from Texas to play at Syracuse? Doubtful. You may be able to get a player or 2, but not much more. Of the top 100 players in Texas in the 2016 recruiting class, only 1, the #78 recruit went to an ACC team (Clemson).

Football players in the Northeast are not as developed as they are in other parts of the country. A school like Syracuse needs to recruit athletes and develop them into good football players. Marrone understood this. I think Babers needs to focus on developing Northeastern payers and mixing in players from Ohio, Florida, and the Middle Atlantic states. If he can grab a good player from Texas or the Midwest, great.

I don't think we have recruited the top players from any state since Jim Brown and Ernie Davis, but there are more than enough 3-star recruits in Texas that would probably love to play for Syracuse and Dino. Maybe even the occassional 4-star recruits once Dino has us putting up big attention-grabbing offensive numbers.

 

[Scooch]

I appreciate the analysis, but your first point is entirely cherry picking big names, and it doesn't relate to your second point about SU's share of top players from those states.

These days -- with the Internet and cable TV and smartphones and social media -- there's simply MUCH more ability for top northeastern recruits to see schools, and be seen by schools. SU's slide coincided with the rise in those media. So I tend to agree with what a couple others have said -- *if* we have been recruiting less top players from the northeast recently (you didn't prove that, by the way) it's likely because we've been bad. As we improve I suspect we'll start winning some recruiting battles that we've recently lost.

I don't think any staff at SU would purposefully avoid recruiting the top kids in our region. You seem to be implying that they have. We know for a fact that Marrone actively courted the NYC metro area to a previously unprecedented degree.

Babers' class was a complete outlier, and he admitted as such.

 

[dollarbill44]

I don't think we have recruited the top players from any state since Jim Brown and Ernie Davis, but there are more than enough 3-star recruits in Texas that would probably love to play for Syracuse and Dino. Maybe even the occassional 4-star recruits once Dino has us putting up big attention-grabbing offensive numbers.

Johnny Morant was the top recruit in NJ (5*) and I think Tim Green may have been the top NYS recruit. Not sure about Kyle McIntosh(CT). But, I think your point is mostly true.

 

[SUbear]

FWIW and some NYS pride, I am pretty sure Rob Konrad was from NY; Lewiston area I believe.

I think you are confusing him with Moose Johnson who was from New York, Konrad was from MA.

 

[whj]

FWIW and some NYS pride, I am pretty sure Rob Konrad was from NY; Lewiston area I believe.

Johnstone was from lewiston ny, lewport high school, konrad was from mas.

 

[OttoForLife]

SU's futility in the last 15+ years has very little to do with where recruits were raised and more to do with the inability for any of them to play QB well.

 

[sufandu]

End of the day, do you think it is a good sign that Syracuse is not attracting the top recruits in what has historically been the Core recruiting states? In the 2016 recruiting class, out of the top recruits in the Core, Syracuse had 2 but Michigan had 8, Ohio State 3, Duke 3, Stanford 3, UVa 3, Iowa 2, Michigan St 2, and Illinois 2. In addition, Pitt, Penn St, Rutgers, BC, Temple and UConn each had more top 2016 recruits from the Core than Syracuse.

I don't think the issue has been that the Syracuse coaching staff's have refused to recruit the local areas hard.

It's that the local recruits aren't interesting in playing football for Syracuse.

The key is first getting them interested. Not just with shmoozing high school gym teachers but by putting an exciting product and consistent winner on the field. Then hopefully one day (as long as we're dreaming) every stud football recruit that comes up thinks SU Football is their #1 (only) choice.

These two nail it. Those "core" areas haven't been ignored. We just haven't been successful in getting those players here. Then we go and get the B and C level guys from other states because they're better than the B and C level players from our "core" states. When we give them a reason to come here - success and playing style - they'll come. It's no different than what it will take to get fans in the Dome.

 

[HtownOrange]

There is the obvious point to be made that if Michigan, ND, Clemson, FSU, Texas, tOSU, etc. are getting kids, it's safe to say they are beyond their "core". Which also translates into these schools leaving very good talent within their "core" for the picking. You can't always get what you want, but if you try, you can get what you need. Coach P and GRob simply were not recruiting they way they should have and Marrone, Shafer and now Babers are building recruiting back up.

 

[atcar]

Johnstone was from lewiston ny, lewport high school, konrad was from mas.[/QUOTE

Aaah that's right. Thanks.

 

[atcar]

I think you are confusing him with Moose Johnson who was from New York, Konrad was from MA.

Yup my confusion. Add Moose Johnson to the list.

 

[nzm136]

End of the day, do you think it is a good sign that Syracuse is not attracting the top recruits in what has historically been the Core recruiting states? In the 2016 recruiting class, out of the top recruits in the Core, Syracuse had 2 but Michigan had 8, Ohio State 3, Duke 3, Stanford 3, UVa 3, Iowa 2, Michigan St 2, and Illinois 2. In addition, Pitt, Penn St, Rutgers, BC, Temple and UConn each had more top 2016 recruits from the Core than Syracuse.

This is s huge concern of mine. I think that we need to recruit core players if we ever hope to win at a high level with any consistency. Whatever system we end up using will have to rely on PA/NJ/NY/NE recruits as its backbone if it's going to work well. FL/GA/DMV/OH recruits are added flavor - albeit important added flavor.

I don't think that it's fair to judge Dino harshly for 2016. And, honestly, I think that he did a masterful job working with what he had (i.e. limited time). And, im not even sure it's right to completely judge him on 2017, because there might be coaching staff shuffles (or possibly not). However, I expect (and excitedly await) some improvement, especially in our core. But once 2017 rolls around, I think it's 100% OK to judge him to the fullest, and I expect to measure favorably with everyone not named Penn State in our core, and do well outside of the core (i.e. Minimum of mid 3*, with some high 3*'s and an occasional 4*). If not, I'd be worried (unless we're winning like crazy - then who cares how we recruit?). Don't get me wrong, Dino has been great so far, so I don't have any reason to think that it can't/won't happen.

 

[Digable5]

You're Dino. You think Player A is better than Player B. Player A is from Idaho and Player B is from New York. You only have one spot for their position and they both want to play for Syracuse. Who do you pick?

If you are Dino, I hope you say Player A because you think they are the better player. That should be how we recruit all "25 spots"; picking the best player irregardless of where they reside.

Better recruits should lead to a better team which leads to more wins. Wins lead to even better recruits and so on until The best New York recruits make Syracuse their No. 1 choice.

 

[tipphill]

The population shifts make the core that produced those players very different than today. Ease of travel has also changed recruiting dramatically. Replicating the past isn't gonna get anything done. Do what works now.

how do u know that it doesn't work now????we have been absent from traditional recruiting grounds.

 

[TheCusian]

how do u know that it doesn't work now????we have been absent from traditional recruiting grounds.

No we haven't. We just haven't landed those kids.

 

[tep624]

It may have been already said, but some of the names you throw out from the 50's and 60's who are prominent players in the program's history are African American and at the time most of the Southern schools weren't actively recruiting blue chip African American prospects in their own state let alone in Northern states. The game has changed dramatically - any person regardless of color who is a top flight recruit is going to be nationally recruited. That absolutely impacted Syracuse's ability to recruit blue chip Northern African American players. Its not a coincidence that you had a string of players like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little in succession and then saw a significant drop off until the program was reinvested into in the early 80's. Allowing a path to play was no longer enough by the early 70's, everyone was offering that.

 

[tep624]

I would love to see the staff hire an outside consulting firm and do an analysis of P5 recruits over the past 20 years from the Northern states. Identify those recruits, and personally interview each one. Stratify them into two groups - were going to play outside the Northeast regardless of recruiting emphasis from Northern schools or were willing to or did sign with a Northern school. From that point, determine the reasons why they signed where they signed. That would be fantastic market research to determine a strategy going forward. You could do some pareto analysis and determine the big drivers for kids staying home and signing where they did. Ultimately, the kids that are willing to stay home are your targets, so it is in the staff's benefit to make Syracuse as an attractive an opportunity as possible to those targets based on what are the higher drivers of importance to the past recruits.

 

[721Comstock]

It may have been already said, but some of the names you throw out from the 50's and 60's who are prominent players in the program's history are African American and at the time most of the Southern schools weren't actively recruiting blue chip African American prospects in their own state let alone in Northern states. The game has changed dramatically - any person regardless of color who is a top flight recruit is going to be nationally recruited. That absolutely impacted Syracuse's ability to recruit blue chip Northern African American players. Its not a coincidence that you had a string of players like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little in succession and then saw a significant drop off until the program was reinvested into in the early 80's. Allowing a path to play was no longer enough by the early 70's, everyone was offering that.

Taking your point a step further, SU was also one of the earlier schools to recruit African American players at QB.
McPherson, Graves, McNabb.

Id be willing to bet that most other schools who recruited then, wanted them at WR or RB or safety or something like that.

Now - ALL schools recruit all good players, period.
We don't have that advantage anymore either.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

PA: Marvin Harrison, Jim Nance, Justin Pugh, Gary Anderson, Curtis Brinkley, Kevin Mitchell, Dan Conley, John Flannery, Ryan Nassib

Please edit your post and add Qadry Ismail to your list. Thank you.

Don't forget Michael Owens. Not only a good running back but also helped in recruiting the #1A basketball high school player.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Now - ALL schools recruit all good players, period.
We don't have that advantage anymore either.

Babers says he wants to use the Dome to our advantage. Not a novel idea but it hasn't happened in a long time. Let's hope he can.

 

[FAL]

Don't forget Michael Owens. Not only a good running back but also helped in recruiting the #1A basketball high school player.

I'll see you an Owens and raise you a Mungro!

 

[tipphill]

No we haven't. We just haven't landed those kids.

wrong we have not been absent, and of late we had 3 recruits from nj and told one of them we are are rethinking ur offer another did not qualify . by the way MAYBE we have not landed those kids MIGHT have something to do with years of neglect and losing.

 

[TheCusian]

wrong we have not been absent, and of late we had 3 recruits from nj and told one of them we are are rethinking ur offer another did not qualify . by the way MAYBE we have not landed those kids MIGHT have something to do with years of neglect and losing.

Huh? So because we didn't bring in any NY or NJ kids in 2016 we're not recruiting the area?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Johnstone was from lewiston ny, lewport high school, konrad was from mas.

Johnstone was from Liverpool and a hell of a pitcher. His dad was best coach I ever had for hoops.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

With regard to OP, This mentality is outdated and old fashioned. It's everything wrong with Syracuse football for past 15 years bunch of old guys in tighty whiteys, members only coats and zansabelt slacks driving around in Oldsmobiles talking about the good ole days and Coach Mac!

Sure we are going to still recruit locally and surrounding areas but we also need to go where we can get good talent and exploit our current spot in the acc as well as the staffs connections in Midwest. Talent is talent.

Look we have sucked for a considerable amount of time, we can't continue to live in the past and try to replicate the pattern and path followed 30 years ago because that path has been mowed over, built over, torn down and rebuilt again. We are basically Kodak at this point or Carrier!

This is why a guy like babers is huge, new outlook, fresh approach, etc. like I said sure we are going to recruit those areas but we also need to look elsewhere, we won't pull all that talent because the competition is a lot more fierce than it use to be and right now our product isn't selling all that great because we suck and play boring football and don't win and fans don't go to games