Here's my .25 cents worth, because I'm sick of hearing your constant "It wasn't P's fault" and revisionists history.
As has been stated, NC State loss in the Dome was to a 24.5 point underdog. And came down to two plays that were fumbled by the coaching staff (pun intended).
East Carolina game in 1995 was a 27-24 loss at the Dome in McNabb's freshman year. We had Malcolm Thomas, Rob Konrad, Marvin Harrison and two NFL TE's in Sinceno and Williams. ECU was good (9-3, won bowl game vs. Stanford), but we had much more talent. Our other two losses were to Va Tech and Miami that year - let's get real. East Carolina didn't have more talent than Syracuse, especially with the game being played at the Dome.
And the Minnesota game came down to two drives by Minnesota in the last 6 minutes of the game. After Syracuse had taken the lead, despite the fumbles. How you let a 4-7 team with very little talent score twice in 6 minutes is beyond me.
And it's not just the losses. It's the way they happen. Team looks totally unprepared, looks sluggish, makes tons of mental errors, etc. Bad timeouts in dumb moments, going for a field goal when down by 4 (BC). Getting blown out by a ridiculous margin. Here's a quick list post McNabb era: Losing 62-0 to Va. Tech, losing to Rutgers by a field goal when they were BAD, getting blown out on the road by East Carolina (which whether you like to admit it or not, should have never happened), losing 59-0 to Miami, losing by one on road to Temple who was kicked out of the league a year or two later, 51-8 loss to Va Tech, another road loss to Rutgers, 51-0 loss in season opener to Purdue, losing again to Temple on the road and the final loss to Ga Tech.
Margins of 62, 59, 51, 43 and then 37, not to mention losses to teams that were putrid. Not isolated losses at all.
And oh by the way, the largest margin of defeat in the Marrone era thus far has been 31 at home vs. Pitt. Not even close.
I'm glad I gave you a chance to get all of that off your chest.
You have sought to pick out all the awful games - over the course of many years - in an effort to satisfy your obvious conclusion that Coach P was a bad football coach or at best underachieved while at Syracuse University.
We really have been through this many times and there is clearly no need to do it again.
I will say a few things though.
Clearly there are many, many on this board who feel as you do - most feel the way you do.
And it is very plain that many of you get really upset when I offer the opposing point of view. In fact, some of you get extremely angry and emotional. You yourself have indicated in this thread that it even makes you "sick" to read my comments.
And so you go to the trusty list of bad games including the losses to Va Tech and Miami and NC State and Rutgers and Temple and Minnesota.
I think your treatment of the East Carolina game is a really good example of what I think many people fell prey to back in those years.
You, and others I guess, have stated categorically that the loss to East Carolina during McNabb's frosh season was a really bad one - an inexcusable loss to an inferior team.
This despite the fact that East Carolina was 9-3 that year and a bowl winner.
You offer the observations that the Orange had more talent than the Pirates that season. I have not had time to research that game or the rosters of the two teams, but I suspect that ECU was just as talented or nearly as talented as the Orange on a man-by-man basis down the entire roster.
But you and many others who feel the way you do, cite five players as evidence that we had much more talent than ECU.
Now it is true that Syracuse had Malcolm Thomas, Rob Konrad, Marvin Harrison and Sinceno and Williams. These were all good college players - Thomas, Konrad, Sinceno and Williams were just that - good players - not great players. Malcom Thomas did not play in the NFL. Rob Konrad and Kaseem Sinceno were fair NFL players. Roland Williams had a very nice NFL career but he was not a star.
McNabb and Harrison were great NFL players - Harrison is one of the all-time greats at his position.
But football involves upwards of 85 players on a team.
And the truly great teams - the ones that win NCs - have All-Americans two and three deep all the way down the roster. Recall the great Miami teams - who had NFL All-Pros at every position. That 2001 Miami team that crushed us - one that had a very good Nebraska team down 34-0 at halftime of the NC game - had the big McKinnie, Willis McGehee, Andre Johnson, Dan Morgan, Ed Reed, Jeremy Shockey, Taylor, and many more.
The USC team had three or four AA QBs on the team including multiple Heisman winners.
Syracuse University never had that kind of talent. We were never a top tier team during McNabb's time at SU.
We were very good and had some solid success, but too many fans figured that our football talent was the equivalent of our BB talent and that we had the talent to win the NC.
And that was never true.
So yes you can point to the losses to Va Tech - when Mike Vick was at his best and the Hokies vied for a NC - and I'll point out that SU beat the #8 Hokies in 2002 in a big upset. You can point to the loss at Rutgers and I'll point out the 2001 win against the Hokies at Va Tech. And while you'll point out the loss to Purdue in 2004, I'll point out the huge upset and domination of BC at the end of that season.
You know we had some games where we rolled up big scores against some very good teams in those years - Wisconsin and Clemson for example. Was Barry Alvarez a bad coach because we beat him and his Heisman winner 34-0 that year?
And, by the time we lost to Temple and Rutgers - bad losses clearly - the talent differential between our programs was not as significant as many of us believed. The margin for error was just not as great as it had been in the past. And when we made mistakes - Colin Barber, a mediocre PK, missing the PAT at Temple and I think the missed a key FG attempt at Rutgers or the WR dropping the Nunes pass against Rutgers that same year at the end of the game - we paid the price.
For years Beano Cook complained that SU fans were convinced that we had more talent than we actually did - down the entire roster. And he was right.
And I think that's where our disconnect exists.
We lost games that we should not have lost at times and were beaten by bad scores at times. But most teams suffer bad losses or blow out losses at times.
Picking out five or six games over the course of 14 years is really an unfair and unrealistic approach to the issue.
The Minnesota game was a freak game that should not have been lost but that was not lost because of bad coaching or lack of preparation.
That's about all I can say on this topic.
Have a nice night.
