Syracuse University to overhaul budget system, in part due to 'controversial' athletic budget (PS)

[Lawrinson14]

The faculties' argument would hold more merit had the Life Science, Law School, Newhouse 3, and the Ernie Davis dorm not been built in the past 5 years. The costs of those alone would probably keep the athletic department running for the next 2o+ years.

 

[rrlbees]

Slide 28 in that report shows what is probably the biggest problem, almost 1/3 of managers in the University have one direct report. Fat, Fat, Fat with high paid people probably not close to fully applied.

Very fat. Even the chancellor I heard cut his staff almost 50% of what Cantor had.

 

[GoSU96]

Very fat. Even the chancellor I heard cut his staff almost 50% of what Cantor had.

Bunch of hanger on's and courtiers with too much time on their hands leads to busy work or being a non value add PITA to justify their jobs.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Do faculty realize how much athletics helps the profile of the school? There's always so much bitching about athletics. Building a new IPF is just like building a new Law building, so what's the problem?

I've always believed college is intended to be the pursuit of excellence for the total human condition. Naturally, athletic excellence has a place there right alongside academic excellence.

But, I'm a teddy bear, so...

 

[rrlbees]

The faculties' argument would hold more merit had the Life Science, Law School, Newhouse 3, and the Ernie Davis dorm not been built in the past 5 years. The costs of those alone would probably keep the athletic department running for the next 2o+ years.

Weren't those buildings done with donations/fundraising?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Weren't those buildings done with donations/fundraising?

newhouse 3 was funded by the anti-SUAthletics dept chair...

 

[Chip]

Paper is paper and you can do what you want as to how you show something. But the actual cost of the scholie is paid for by the school they are enrolled in.

Is there an actual cost of a scholarship? You just pay the professors their salaries, pay the facility costs, etc. Then count your coins from the people who actually pay real $ to go to the school. Seems like what you're talking about is just an allocation game. Which we (and I'm sure most schools) have to play quite a bit of given that some segment of the student population actually pays zero.

 

[Lawrinson14]

Weren't those buildings done with donations/fundraising?

Not sure. But the Life Science building alone had to have been hundreds of millions of dollars.

Edit: $114 million apparently

 

[Alsacs]

Newhouse 2 and Newhouse 3 were self-funded by the Newhouse school. The Newhouse family made a significant donation for Newhouse 2 building while I was on campus and I plucked down a little coin(couple hundreds) for Newhouse 3 after I graduated.

This report tells me Dr. Gross has had no problem spending and spending recklessly. I like Dr. Gross, but he has no problem spending money and the University faculty want to know if this funding is necessary or if Dr. Gross is just spending a champagne lifestyle on beer income. If the spending is needed I doubt their would be any changes, but I bet a lot of this spending is Gross taking care of his people.

 

[OttoMets]

Weren't those buildings done with donations/fundraising?

Not sure. But the Life Science building alone had to have been hundreds of millions of dollars.

Edit: $114 million apparently

The Life Sciences building was definitely financed. That represents a decent chunk of the university's debt. I think Ernie Davis was financed, also.

Newhouse III was taken care of by donations; much (if not all) of the law school was, too, though they had to trim out some previously-planned library space due to a funding shortfall.

 

[hoopsupstate]

The one argument I would make as a faculty memeber is that what they are paying Gary Gait for women's lacrosse is insane. How can anyone justify that salary for a non-revenue sport. All I know is that Hop and our football coordinators should make a lot more than Gary Gait. I would gather that he is making twice what the next coach is making in women's lacrosse or probably men's lacrosse too.

 

[Alsacs]

The one argument I would make as a faculty memeber is that what they are paying Gary Gait for women's lacrosse is insane. How can anyone justify that salary for a non-revenue sport. All I know is that Hop and our football coordinators should make a lot more than Gary Gait. I would gather that he is making twice what the next coach is making in women's lacrosse or probably men's lacrosse too.

Gait had a pretty good gig in Colorado and for Dr. Gross to get him to accept the job he had give him a "Godfather" offer. I agree its more than he is worth since we haven't won a Women's LAX NC yet but have played 2 of them. I don't know if the SUAD is paying that salary or if Gait is getting paid by equipment/endorsements for that salary.

I think Gross has to been to guilty of spending a lot of money and not giving any answers and finally the spending has to be answered for by him and his AD employees. I think the AD is awfully bloated and Gross needs to tell the faculty/Chancellor what is going on. Cantor didn't question Gross and allowed him this autonomy and that to get out of control, and I like Gross and did not like Cantor.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I thought the syracuse.com article from last week said the reported salaries did not include shoe/equipment endorsements, which explains why Boeheim seems "low", but doesn't clear up the Gait issue.

Some quick google searching says Tillman and Starsia are around $150k base, so not sure what would justify paying Gait in that ballpark...would be curious to know what kind of National Championship bonus DG has in his contract.

 

[anomander]

I thought the syracuse.com article from last week said the reported salaries did not include shoe/equipment endorsements, which explains why Boeheim seems "low", but doesn't clear up the Gait issue.

Some quick google searching says Tillman and Starsia are around $150k base, so not sure what would justify paying Gait in that ballpark...would be curious to know what kind of National Championship bonus DG has in his contract.

What I don't understand is the excuse for not being able to pay our Football coaches because we are a Private University, but on the other hand have no problem paying the Women's Lacrosse coach arguably the highest salary in the country? Shouldn't these be proportionate? If we can't afford to pay the Football coaches competitive salary then we sure as hell not should be overspending on the Women's Lax coach.

 

[cuseinchina]

I don't think it is as much athletics vs academics as that. I know several faculty and other members of the university academia. Each one lives SU sports, go to games, talk about the teams. I think it is more about the transparency and also not always having a plan that meets the budget. While one side is made to toe the line and justify everything, the other side isn't all the time. But it's a tough deal as a private school. Nobody is ever happy and feels they are getting a fair shake. But I do know many academics fully realize the value of the sports programs.

Just out of curiosity, not just asking you but asking anyone this question. JB gets a recruit who is going to enroll in say Newhouse. Who should pay for that scholie? Newhouse or the AD?

I think some of this exists at every school with big time sports. My sister is finishing up her phd at UT Austin and she says the majority of the academics she knows are disdainful towards the sports and the amount of power that goes to athletics. obviously UT is very different from Syracuse - but you gotta remember, probably more than 50% of these guys are people who were not good at sports, they were good at getting A's on exams. many of them simply don't respect that part of the college experience because for them it wasn't part of it. Which is not to say there aren't a bunch of cool professors who are really into it just that there is a big group who is not.

 

[BlazeOrange]

That is true. My understanding is that most schools the AD pays the scholie but some have the individual college pay. But what you are talking about is definitely true. They "count" against football not track regardless of whether the AD or the school actually pays.

I think that's right - the only concern of the NCAA is that the number of players (specifically football, not sure about hoops) getting scholarships of any kind is below the maximum number, they don't care who cuts the check.

Didn't Vanderbilt or Tulane disband their athletic department entirely and fund things a different way?

 

[Scooch]

I think some of this exists at every school with big time sports. My sister is finishing up her phd at UT Austin and she says the majority of the academics she knows are disdainful towards the sports and the amount of power that goes to athletics. obviously UT is very different from Syracuse - but you gotta remember, probably more than 50% of these guys are people who were not good at sports, they were good at getting A's on exams. many of them simply don't respect that part of the college experience because for them it wasn't part of it. Which is not to say there aren't a bunch of cool professors who are really into it just that there is a big group who is not.

Before we go too far down the stereotype rabbit hole... It's also the fact that many academics, even those who are big sports fans, are uncomfortable with the incredibly high costs that go with running a major D-1 athletics department. I mean, for all the ways that sports has a positive impact on a university, there are loads of incredibly prestigious institutions that don't offer said major D-1 athletics and thrive.

Personally, I'm cut from that cloth to some extent. As much as I love SU athletics, I'm queasy about paying coaches multi-million dollar salaries and spending tens of millions on shiny toys like practice facilities. None of that is core to the mission of a university.

 

[OttoMets]

Before we go too far down the stereotype rabbit hole... It's also the fact that many academics, even those who are big sports fans, are uncomfortable with the incredibly high costs that go with running a major D-1 athletics department. I mean, for all the ways that sports has a positive impact on a university, there are loads of incredibly prestigious institutions that don't offer said major D-1 athletics and thrive.

Personally, I'm cut from that cloth to some extent. As much as I love SU athletics, I'm queasy about paying coaches multi-million dollar salaries and spending tens of millions on shiny toys like practice facilities. None of that is core to the mission of a university.

And, for instance, spending $40,000 to put the team in a hotel the night before a home football game because the players can't be trusted not to [fill in the blank] if they're left in their dorm rooms or apartments.

One can be the biggest fan in the world and still be some level of concerned (or disgusted) with how money is wasted on athletics.

 

[GoSU96]

I think some of this exists at every school with big time sports. My sister is finishing up her phd at UT Austin and she says the majority of the academics she knows are disdainful towards the sports and the amount of power that goes to athletics. obviously UT is very different from Syracuse - but you gotta remember, probably more than 50% of these guys are people who were not good at sports, they were good at getting A's on exams. many of them simply don't respect that part of the college experience because for them it wasn't part of it. Which is not to say there aren't a bunch of cool professors who are really into it just that there is a big group who is not.

The academics that disdain athletics are the kind that believe the Universities are there for their benefit. For a group that is in front of preaching "diversity" they can be awfully narrow minded about the role athletics plays in the lives of individual participant students and the avenue to opportunity to athletes that wouldn't have that opportunity otherwise, the attractiveness and quality of life for the non participant student, the brand identity for the school that is created in the general community and role in attracting future students, the funding that is generated by major programs to support non revenue sports and associated facilities used by the general student population for recreation, intramural and club sports. The major athletic programs create bonds between the school and it's alumni and the surrounding community.

Someone should remind them they are employee's. Another case where people forget who they are working for. It's as bad as the fans who forget that the sports programs are operated in the context of an academic institution with a broader mission than win and losses and dollars.

 

[HtownOrange]

From the Athletics side, I am not too concerned. Historically, Syracuse AD has sent money to the university. The last few years have been tight because of increased spending and then the Big East withdrawal. SU AD was NOT getting the Big East money once they gave notice. I know, it wasn't much, but it was millions of dollars. Add to that the $7.5MM exit fee, and costs associated with joining the ACC (new logos everywhere/signage, etc.) a loss is not that big of a deal. The new ACC money, which Syracuse will receive this summer, should help to right the ship. It isn't like the AD was hitting up the university for $48MM or asking for $20MM+ annually.

On the academics side, I think Sevyrud is laying the foundation for dismantling some of Cantor's "progress". I believe academics will be climb to where they should be and possibly higher.

I also agree with previous posters that the donors are not carrying the same weight at SU as they do elsewhere, but SU is a private school that does not churn out the numbers that the big state schools do so this may not be a fair comparison.

Disclaimer: I grew up a local kid that learned to love Syracuse, I am not an alumn.

 

[cuseinchina]

Before we go too far down the stereotype rabbit hole... It's also the fact that many academics, even those who are big sports fans, are uncomfortable with the incredibly high costs that go with running a major D-1 athletics department. I mean, for all the ways that sports has a positive impact on a university, there are loads of incredibly prestigious institutions that don't offer said major D-1 athletics and thrive.

Personally, I'm cut from that cloth to some extent. As much as I love SU athletics, I'm queasy about paying coaches multi-million dollar salaries and spending tens of millions on shiny toys like practice facilities. None of that is core to the mission of a university.

Stereotyping maybe, but I'm surrounded by academics via my wife, sister, and many of our friends. I can say that based on my experience, academics tend to be really caught up in their own little world - and that world often times has very very little to do with what should be the core mission of a college or university - teaching students to think creatively, analytically, and in a way that allows them to contribute to society.

Without athletics as a draw, a school like Syracuse with middling rankings, is going to find itself facing an enrollment crunch when people start realizing that the public school is a better deal for the same outcome and the things that made Syracuse Syracuse have been de-emphasized. The experience is what you are selling when you try to get people to go to SU. At $160k, the economics don't justify it, at $200k they certainly won't. So the experience has got to be differentiated. the numbers are getting to the point where upper middle class people making less than $200k a year are just not going to pay up. For my own kids, if they can't get into a top 20 school I would totally advise them to get straight A's at the best state school and then focus on getting a top knotch GRE/GMAT score to get into a top 20 grad school. If they wanted to go to cuse I'd probably pay up...but it's really not the smart thing to do. That's why keeping the experience really great, including the legacy of athletics, is super important to a place like Syracuse.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The entire university spent like a drunken sailor the minute Nancy Cantor stepped on campus. This isn't isolated to just athletics. I wish I had a picture of the entire university from 2003 when I stepped on campus, but there was at least one capital improvement started or finished by the university from about 2004-2012. I know a lot of construction was funded by donations, but it is clear that by the amount of debt the University has that a lot of it was done through loans. I still want to ask Nancy Cantor about the wall built in front of Crouse College that was built for 500k.

 

[omniorange]

I love academia. I honestly have no idea how much $$$ the athletic department spends on things - to hear some stories, they spend like drunken sailors. Yet we have average to below average salaries for coaches in the high profile sports (and probably their assistant coaches as well, though those salaries are harder to pin down) and even the TGD was below the average AD until just last year. So, who or what are they spending the $$$ on?

Having said that, I have to scratch my head at the faculty at SU sometimes as well. Under Cantor there was a significant increase in full-time faculty when the national trend was actually toward less full-time faculty and more adjuncts. And yes, the enrollment increased as well. But that hasn't prevented the university from having one of the better faculty-to-student class size ratios when comparing apples to apples (other non high volume research institutions) rather than apples to oranges (high volume research institutions - which we are not).

And don't get me started on Lou Marcoccia.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[upperdeck]

It's nice to have a good women's lax team but Gary Gait being one of the 5 highest paid SU employees is ridiculous.

I dont believe that there are not a multitude of professors making more than Gait @ 300K..

 

[Millhouse]

Stereotyping maybe, but I'm surrounded by academics via my wife, sister, and many of our friends. I can say that based on my experience, academics tend to be really caught up in their own little world - and that world often times has very very little to do with what should be the core mission of a college or university - teaching students to think creatively, analytically, and in a way that allows them to contribute to society. Without athletics as a draw, a school like Syracuse with middling rankings, is going to find itself facing an enrollment crunch when people start realizing that the public school is a better deal for the same outcome and the things that made Syracuse Syracuse have been de-emphasized. The experience is what you are selling when you try to get people to go to SU. At $160k, the economics don't justify it, at $200k they certainly won't. So the experience has got to be differentiated. the numbers are getting to the point where upper middle class people making less than $200k a year are just not going to pay up. For my own kids, if they can't get into a top 20 school I would totally advise them to get straight A's at the best state school and then focus on getting a top knotch GRE/GMAT score to get into a top 20 grad school. If they wanted to go to cuse I'd probably pay up...but it's really not the smart thing to do. That's why keeping the experience really great, including the legacy of athletics, is super important to a place like Syracuse.

Kids with brains in their head aren't paying that much.

My kids will get whatever the going rate is for state school. If they want to top it off with loans and scholarships at a private, be my guest.

Hopefully Severus turns things around. Some worthless whatever studies prof might be right about gross being wasteful but they're part of the problem too. AD should stand on their own two feet and SU should sh1tcan the worthless majors

edit - iphone autocorrect is a harry potter fan apparently