Talent? Who needs talent?

[TheCusian]

Is Erv Phillips really going to be one of the 8 best WR's in the ACC by the end of the year?

Why not?

 

[TheCusian]

Ishmael I get and think with better QB play, he could do a lot of damage. I don't see how Phillips is different than what I see every week against SU. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think he's better than Estime.

Burst, change of direction, got a little Shady McCoy to him.

 

[TheCusian]

I agree with the premise that we over-rank our talent. But one constant with media types is that they've typically missed on predicting us.

I think we will see bottom-of-the-conference lists and treatment because we deserve it based on last year. I think it's crazy for anyone in a publication or site to think otherwise. But I think they will be wrong.

(Also: what has Clawson done to get momentum?! They are going to be bad again. Wouldn't be surprised to see Doreen and State fall back to bottom, either.)

 

[jr4750]

See and this is the difference between Syracuse, and Clemson. Most people here think Ish should have been a 4star WR coming out of HS. Well he wasn't the 4star WR's are Artavius Scott who was a 4star in 2014, and Mike Williams who was a 4star in 2013. Those are Steele's 1st team All-ACC WR's (both made 3rd team All-ACC last year). Now i'm a huge Ish fan, and personally feel he will eventually work himself into an All-ACC WR, but that's the difference between the type of players Clemson gets, and what Syracuse gets. Everyone can get pissy about the star system, but for the most part they are pretty accurate in relation to our talent.

Especially elite talent. Spotting it is fairly easy. Work ethic is much harder to forecast and obviously elite talent sometimes falls on its face when surrounded by equal or slightly less, but harder working players. You get a kid like Amari Cooper though, both elite talent and elite work ethic, and my grandma could say he'd be an All American. The fat, egotistical analysts who like to judge high school kids for a living, (I'm not a fan of this if you can't tell) don't necessarily have the toughest job in the world.

 

[anomander]

For anyone who is interested here are the All-ACC selections

http://www.philsteele.com/All_Conference/2015/2015 Preseason/ACC.html

 

[rrlbees]

Our better players are in the younger classes. The upper classes, which were Marrone recruits, lack stars. Especially at the skill positions.

 

[anomander]

Our better players are in the younger classes. The upper classes, which were Marrone recruits, lack stars. Especially at the skill positions.

Even still there are a ton of true Sophomores on those all conference teams. The younger talent may be better, but still not all league good.

The 1 SU kid to make the list was a Marrone guy

 

[TheCusian]

Even still there are a ton of true Sophomores on those all conference teams. The younger talent may be better, but still not all league good. The 1 SU kid to make the list was a Marrone guy

Losing season means less of a look and less preseason accolades. Doesn't mean a few guys won't rise up if we win more than people think we will.

We won't be getting much positive press. Not a bad place to be if you want to shock some people.

 

[OrangeDW]

Burst, change of direction, got a little Shady McCoy to him.

Strong emphasis on the word "little".

McCoy ran for 1,328 yards and 14 TDs as a freshman.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

If you win you make all - league teams. If you don't, not so much. Post-season is important, pre-season not so much.

Our talent is what it is. Recruiting is trending up with HCSS from that NFL guy before him, the one that didn't like to recruit but whose dream job depended on it.

 

[anomander]

Losing season means less of a look and less preseason accolades. Doesn't mean a few guys won't rise up if we win more than people think we will.

We won't be getting much positive press. Not a bad place to be if you want to shock some people.

I think someone like Zaire Franklin, or Steve Ishmael could be underclassmen who rise up to be all-league this upcoming season. Anyone else would be a total shock.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Why not?

Well, I think it's a bit much to expect a kid who averaged 3.8 ypc last year to develop into a top 8 receiver in the ACC in a year. I'm sure he'll improve, but his longest play from scrimmage last year was 18 yards, which isn't screaming Shady McCoy at this time.

I believe a healthy Estime is a more explosive player right now.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I think someone like Zaire Franklin, or Steve Ishmael could be underclassmen who rise up to be all-league this upcoming season. Anyone else would be a total shock.

I think Trudo and Raymon have the opportunity to do so as well, but they probably don't count since they are Marrone recruits and just keeping starting jobs open for the better guys behind them.

 

[anomander]

I think Trudo and Raymon have the opportunity to do so as well, but they probably don't count since they are Marrone recruits and just keeping starting jobs open for the better guys behind them.

Yep, I agree. I could definitely see those 2, especially Trudo, making all-conference.

 

[TheCusian]

I think someone like Zaire Franklin, or Steve Ishmael could be underclassmen who rise up to be all-league this upcoming season. Anyone else would be a total shock.

I like Phillips, Estime, even Broyld too. Cornelius might even be dependable enough to put up monster numbers without breakaway speed or elite athleticism.

 

[TheCusian]

Well, I think it's a bit much to expect a kid who averaged 3.8 ypc last year to develop into a top 8 receiver in the ACC in a year. I'm sure he'll improve, but his longest play from scrimmage last year was 18 yards, which isn't screaming Shady McCoy at this time. I believe a healthy Estime is a more explosive player right now.

Estime isn't exactly lighting things up either, number wise. But if take either.

 

[dasher]

This is what I have been talking about. Our best prospects are young. We don't have the talent that almost all of the other ACC teams do. Compare us to our own teams when we were good. It doesn't come out well for us now.

 

[baggerbob]

I like Phillips, Estime, even Broyld too. Cornelius might even be dependable enough to put up monster numbers without breakaway speed or elite athleticism.

Cornelius is a nice player, but hopefully for the team, Custis, and Enoicy by the 5th game are getting most of the play with Ishmael, as Wide receivers.

 

[SUalldway]

Things I like about all of this: We're going to surprise some teams this year. No way we will be as bad as last year unless the injury plague hits us again. I like that noone is giving us any credit. Everyone is figuring we'll just continue our crappy season, when if you look at the last 5 years, last year really was the outlier of those seasons.

Steele also predicted us to be last place in the Atlantic division 2 years ago when we went to Houston and beat a Big Ten team in a bowl game.

 

[TheCusian]

Cornelius is a nice player, but hopefully for the team, Custis, and Enoicy by the 5th game are getting most of the play with Ishmael, as Wide receivers.

I'll take production where we can get it. Size is great - but the ability to get open and make tough catches is valuable too.

 

[PhatOrange]

So you're saying the coaching staff should be given some time to get their players in place?

I don't have the time to go through the list for what class each kid is in but it's highly unlikely Steele is going to put underclass Syracuse players on an all-conference team. I'm curious how many he has in general.

BC by the way only has 2 kids listed. a 4th team RB and a 2nd team DL.

 

[jekelish]

I just thought about this - how many kickers/punters do they have listed? I haven't looked at the link yet, but Murphy and Dixon are obvious candidates for All-ACC honors.

 

[rrlbees]

I just thought about this - how many kickers/punters do they have listed? I haven't looked at the link yet, but Murphy and Dixon are obvious candidates for All-ACC honors.

4 each and neither are listed. Dixon should be.

 

[Chip]

Zaire Franklin, Ron thompson, Wayne Morgan, Steve Ishmael

Our only shots in my opinion.

Replace Morgan with Erv, and I think that's the 4 best football players on the roster. Add Trudo as the top 5 if healthy and if he can adjust to center.

I don't know if that gets them on All ACC lists, but to me, they can do the most damage for us on the field.

We need more of them.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think from a skill position aspect, we can be adequate. The o-line is absolutely, 100% my biggest concern for this team right now.

Well said. After last year, that has to be our #1 concern. With 4 returning OL starters, we had a historically bad offense. Sure, half the starters went down to injury but a lot of blame has to fall on the coaching. We have obviously upgraded our talent these past few years just from a measurable a standpoint - taller, faster players up and down the roster compared to 5+ years ago. But still not at the level we need to be. But we have been recruiting top 50 talent (average) then I want to see it translate to average .500 performance on the field. Less than that is on the coaches.