Tempo

[OttoMets]

We've seen this game before. Stanford controlled the game against us. With four minutes to go, we got some defensive stops. Our shots began to fall. We won.

Last night, our shots didn't fall. We lost.

Allowing an inferior team to play a game in the 50s and 60s is Russian roulette for Syracuse. We can win that kind of game, but it hugely reduces the probability that we will do so.

The inferior team shouldn't be able to dictate tempo. Brey came in with the goal of playing a game in the 60s, and Syracuse obliged, even though that's to our disadvantage. If we can't execute in the half-court, we'll lose. As everyone who follows this team (save for Boeheim, per his radio show comment) knows, our half-court offense isn't very good. Without our only post player, it's much worse.

 

[iommi]

This is the problem with only playing one defense and that one defense being zone. It allows the other team to dictate tempo. Going to the trunk monkey press can work somewhat, but once the press is broken, the opposition can go back to stall ball, because we fall back into the zone. Last night was one of those games where JB's inability to try some man to man to force tempo winds up being a detriment. Cue bluecurtain and igor.

 

[NKR1978]

This is the problem with only playing one defense and that one defense being zone. It allows the other team to dictate tempo. Going to the trunk monkey press can work somewhat, but once the press is broken, the opposition can go back to stall ball, because we fall back into the zone. Last night was one of those games where JB's inability to try some man to man to force tempo winds up being a detriment. Cue bluecurtain and igor.

We pressed for a good part of the game to try to change up tempo though. ND did a good job of breaking it where other teams have succumbed to it. Good for them.

 

[OttoMets]

We pressed for a good part of the game to try to change up tempo though. ND did a good job of breaking it where other teams have succumbed to it. Good for them.

That is a good point. The broke the press with relative ease.

Of course, it'd help to be able to adjust our press. We don't seem to do that, unfortunately.

 

[cuseguy]

We pressed for a good part of the game to try to change up tempo though. ND did a good job of breaking it where other teams have succumbed to it. Good for them.

Absolutely, positively need to go man against a team like ND. When we increased pressure with our zone in the second half, the game change. JB can be stubborn at times.

 

[NKR1978]

Absolutely, positively need to go man against a team like ND. When we increased pressure with our zone in the second half, the game change. JB can be stubborn at times.

It couldn't have hurt to try. Just like it couldn't have hurt to have put in MCW.

He did try to up the tempo, but we weren't creating turnovers that we normally create. I'm more concerned with the offense. Though, our inability to do anything inside is probably a bi-product of our inability to do anything meaningful from the outside.

 

[Knicks411]

Notre Dame turned it over 18 times last night, on 62 possessions. That's higher than our average rate, but just barely. We turned them over, but I don't think there were enough fast break points out of it.

The tempo thing really bothers me. It just makes no sense to me. You are letting Notre Dame do exactly what they want to do. And especially since we were trailing from the start; we're down 18 in the first half and we're letting them limit the possessions. How does that make sense?

 

[NKR1978]

Notre Dame turned it over 18 times last night, on 62 possessions. That's higher than our average rate, but just barely. We turned them over, but I don't think there were enough fast break points out of it.

The tempo thing really bothers me. It just makes no sense to me. You are letting Notre Dame do exactly what they want to do. And especially since we were trailing from the start; we're down 18 in the first half and we're letting them limit the possessions. How does that make sense?

It's so much easier to slow down tempo than it is to speed it up. We would trap them and they would get the ball out. Or we would get called with a foul. I think we did things to increase tempo, we just failed at it.

 

[orangecuse]

Notre Dame turned it over 18 times last night, on 62 possessions. That's higher than our average rate, but just barely. We turned them over, but I don't think there were enough fast break points out of it.

The tempo thing really bothers me. It just makes no sense to me. You are letting Notre Dame do exactly what they want to do. And especially since we were trailing from the start; we're down 18 in the first half and we're letting them limit the possessions. How does that make sense?

Completely agree...mentioned similar argument in some other thread(s). Also, we didn't get any fast breaks points off their turnovers...zero.

 

[NKR1978]

We actually didn't get any fast breaks points...zero.

They did a great job of getting back on defense. Reminded me of our game against Kansas and how we limited their fast break chances.

 

[orangecuse]

It's so much easier to slow down tempo than it is to speed it up. We would trap them and they would get the ball out. Or we would get called with a foul. I think we did things to increase tempo, we just failed at it.

I generally agree here, but imo, we didn't do enough. The times we trapped, they had to call some timeouts. If we continued to do this, they would have either exhausted all of their timeouts or have been forced to make some bad decisions and likely turn it over. Way too often after our few attempts, we just sat back very lackidasically and allowed ND to orchestrate their game plan to a T...allowing an athletically challeged/shooting team play a game of horse from the outside.

Additionally, I find pressing is not so much a creating tempo thing (as, for obvious reasons, you can not do this for a prolonged period of time) but rather to get a quick turnover or two leading to some easy gimme buckets. We generally press when we are down or to get some separation (like before we broke open a tight Providence game in the Dome as they were dictating tempo to that point).

 

[Knicks411]

I do agree it's easier to slow a game down than speed it up, but how many times was ND just dribbling the balkl out near the half court line and we had no one past the 3 point line? We put traps on them, they had to burn TO or they turned it over. Maybe ND was going to slow the game down no matter what, but I would've liked to see us extend the D more.

 

[Oakland]

We've seen this game before. Stanford controlled the game against us. With four minutes to go, we got some defensive stops. Our shots began to fall. We won.

Last night, our shots didn't fall. We lost.

Allowing an inferior team to play a game in the 50s and 60s is Russian roulette for Syracuse. We can win that kind of game, but it hugely reduces the probability that we will do so.

The inferior team shouldn't be able to dictate tempo. Brey came in with the goal of playing a game in the 60s, and Syracuse obliged, even though that's to our disadvantage. If we can't execute in the half-court, we'll lose. As everyone who follows this team (save for Boeheim, per his radio show comment) knows, our half-court offense isn't very good. Without our only post player, it's much worse.

This is the Moqui Principle

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Additionally, I find pressing is not so much a creating tempo thing (as, for obvious reasons, you can not do this for a prolonged period of time) but rather to get a quick turnover or two leading to some easy gimme buckets. .

In reality, most coaches who press do so to dictate tempo

 

[Dick_in_MI]

We've seen this game before. Stanford controlled the game against us. With four minutes to go, we got some defensive stops. Our shots began to fall. We won.

Last night, our shots didn't fall. We lost.

Allowing an inferior team to play a game in the 50s and 60s is Russian roulette for Syracuse. We can win that kind of game, but it hugely reduces the probability that we will do so.

The inferior team shouldn't be able to dictate tempo. Brey came in with the goal of playing a game in the 60s, and Syracuse obliged, even though that's to our disadvantage. If we can't execute in the half-court, we'll lose. As everyone who follows this team (save for Boeheim, per his radio show comment) knows, our half-court offense isn't very good. Without our only post player, it's much worse.

One point not mentioned in your post is the huge disparity in defensive rebounds. When we don't board, we don't run. When we don't run, we get caught in a halfcourt game. In a halfcourt game, we generally rely too much on outside shots because our big men do not present well for entry passes. That aside, we missed a lot of gimme's last night in addition to the outside shots not falling.

 

[ljmilman]

Completely agree...mentioned similar argument in some other thread(s). Also, we didn't get any fast breaks points off their turnovers...zero.

That's the key. Not only that, but it felt like the vast majority of their turnovers were dead ball turnovers. They'd throw/drop the ball out of bounds or travel, not allowing us to get a fast break. I'm not sure I remember more than a couple of actual fast breaks the entire game.

 

[orangecuse]

In reality, most coaches who press do so to dictate tempo

In reality, most coaches do not press for the entire game, but rather for some short term goal I eluded to and the premise of my opinion. Now, if once the press is broken, and the team still puts on aggressive pressure for the entire shot clock, and throughout the game, I would concur that this creates overall tempo as I view tempo as pace of the entire game, not just brief lapses. We pressed, but ND clearly dictated tempo throughout as we just sat back passively afterwards letting them do exactly what they wanted to.

 

[Knicks411]

That's the key. Not only that, but it felt like the vast majority of their turnovers were dead ball turnovers. They'd throw/drop the ball out of bounds or travel, not allowing us to get a fast break. I'm not sure I remember more than a couple of actual fast breaks the entire game.

I was surprised to see we had 9 steals, didn't seem like that many.

 

[jekelish]

In reality, most coaches do not press for the entire game, but rather for some short term goal I eluded to and the premise of my opinion. Now, if once the press is broken, and the team still puts on aggressive pressure for the entire shot clock, and throughout the game, I would concur that this creates overall tempo as I view tempo as pace of the entire game, not just brief lapses. We pressed, but ND clearly dictated tempo throughout as we just sat back passively afterwards letting them do exactly what they wanted to.

Generally agree with this. We try to push the tempo with the press, but as soon as it is broken we sit back and let them kill the shot clock. You need to keep a high intensity defensively throughout the possession and, more importantly maybe, limit second chances to truly dictate the tempo. A good pressure defense will get teams out of their comfort zone and force rushed shots and sloppy passes. To credit Notre Dame, they didn't really force shots and only had a few really sloppy passes when we did press.

You really have to give them credit, they countered our apparent gameplan exceptionally well (though some iffy calls and our inability to hit shots while they threw everything in didn't really help either). Notre Dame certainly deserved to win.

 

[ljmilman]

I was surprised to see we had 9 steals, didn't seem like that many.

Really? That shocks me.