Tempo

[TheOrangeBuddha]

To me, the complete lack of tempo both offensively and defensively has been a huge issue for this team.

A major concern I have with our "situational" talent (pass rushing specialist, Okie, and other package defenses that deviate from the standard), is that certain teams can effectively game plan to keep that talent standing on the sidelines. For instance, Northwestern will play fast enough that the SU defense will have difficulty making wholesale substitutions on the defensive line and elsewhere. Come third and long, we too often had (and unless something changes will have) the "run defense" defensive line on the field trying to get to the quarterback or a player sprinting onto the field at the last second and not truly being ready to perform on the play.

Which brings me to the facet of the game that really irks me under this staff ... (and it very well might have been a strategy because of a lack of comparable talent and need to shorten the game) ... our offense simply played at one speed throughout the year, with the occasional situational hurry up. I would like to see our offense, especially having a 5th year quarterback manning the controls, use tempo to their advantage this year. Speed the game up, slow it down and basically keep the defense on its toes. The key is making the defense make decisions quicker than they capable. I am not saying we have to play the game at break neck speed trying to get snaps off every 10-15 seconds (like Oregon), but I would like to see a break neck speed tempo used to our advantage at certain moments of the game, forcing the opponent into bad situations etc. Hell, when was the last time we saw SU rush to the line of scrimmage and run a play instantly to get a too many men on the field penalty on the defense? Or rush to the line of scrimmage to keep the defense from substituting. It sure as hell hasn't happened enough. Make our opponents burn their timeouts on defense.

There are creative ways to use tempo to your advantage and I haven't seen SU use them at all. Other programs consistently use these tactics to their advantage. Hell, our first opponent, Northwestern, is a prime example.

I've droned on enough ...

 

[Rocco]

One thing that I noticed last year was Nassib's inability to quick snap. The line and receivers would be set, but he would go behind center or be in shotgun and would take too much time with his checks. Especially when the defense was still scrambling around. If that can improve, I think we could catch some D's on their back feet.

 

[OrangeMaNPD]

I've wondered the same thing for a while. Doesn't have to be hyper speed but a no huddle package would be awesome.

 

[kingottoiii]

When we played more up tempo last year the O looked a whole lot better.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

To me, the complete lack of tempo both offensively and defensively has been a huge issue for this team.

A major concern I have with our "situational" talent (pass rushing specialist, Okie, and other package defenses that deviate from the standard), is that certain teams can effectively game plan to keep that talent standing on the sidelines. For instance, Northwestern will play fast enough that the SU defense will have difficulty making wholesale substitutions on the defensive line and elsewhere. Come third and long, we too often had (and unless something changes will have) the "run defense" defensive line on the field trying to get to the quarterback or a player sprinting onto the field at the last second and not truly being ready to perform on the play.

Which brings me to the facet of the game that really irks me under this staff ... (and it very well might have been a strategy because of a lack of comparable talent and need to shorten the game) ... our offense simply played at one speed throughout the year, with the occasional situational hurry up. I would like to see our offense, especially having a 5th year quarterback manning the controls, use tempo to their advantage this year. Speed the game up, slow it down and basically keep the defense on its toes. The key is making the defense make decisions quicker than they capable. I am not saying we have to play the game at break neck speed trying to get snaps off every 10-15 seconds (like Oregon), but I would like to see a break neck speed tempo used to our advantage at certain moments of the game, forcing the opponent into bad situations etc. Hell, when was the last time we saw SU rush to the line of scrimmage and run a play instantly to get a too many men on the field penalty on the defense? Or rush to the line of scrimmage to keep the defense from substituting. It sure as hell hasn't happened enough. Make our opponents burn their timeouts on defense.

There are creative ways to use tempo to your advantage and I haven't seen SU use them at all. Other programs consistently use these tactics to their advantage. Hell, our first opponent, Northwestern, is a prime example.

I've droned on enough ...

I agree with all of this.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[kcsu]

To me, the complete lack of tempo both offensively and defensively has been a huge issue for this team.

A major concern I have with our "situational" talent (pass rushing specialist, Okie, and other package defenses that deviate from the standard), is that certain teams can effectively game plan to keep that talent standing on the sidelines. For instance, Northwestern will play fast enough that the SU defense will have difficulty making wholesale substitutions on the defensive line and elsewhere. Come third and long, we too often had (and unless something changes will have) the "run defense" defensive line on the field trying to get to the quarterback or a player sprinting onto the field at the last second and not truly being ready to perform on the play.

Which brings me to the facet of the game that really irks me under this staff ... (and it very well might have been a strategy because of a lack of comparable talent and need to shorten the game) ... our offense simply played at one speed throughout the year, with the occasional situational hurry up. I would like to see our offense, especially having a 5th year quarterback manning the controls, use tempo to their advantage this year. Speed the game up, slow it down and basically keep the defense on its toes. The key is making the defense make decisions quicker than they capable. I am not saying we have to play the game at break neck speed trying to get snaps off every 10-15 seconds (like Oregon), but I would like to see a break neck speed tempo used to our advantage at certain moments of the game, forcing the opponent into bad situations etc. Hell, when was the last time we saw SU rush to the line of scrimmage and run a play instantly to get a too many men on the field penalty on the defense? Or rush to the line of scrimmage to keep the defense from substituting. It sure as hell hasn't happened enough. Make our opponents burn their timeouts on defense.

There are creative ways to use tempo to your advantage and I haven't seen SU use them at all. Other programs consistently use these tactics to their advantage. Hell, our first opponent, Northwestern, is a prime example.

I've droned on enough ...

Great post spot on. I think much of this has to do with Hack being a newbie. If he has to check each call out with Doug there is no way we can go to a quicker O. One thought i have is why not let Ryan call the plays from the Line. He is very smart knows the O inside and out and being a 5th year senior should be in position to take more control

 

[Toga]

Great post spot on. I think much of this has to do with Hack being a newbie. If he has to check each call out with Doug there is no way we can go to a quicker O. One thought i have is why not let Ryan call the plays from the Line. He is very smart knows the O inside and out and being a 5th year senior should be in position to take more control

Excellent post by Buddha. Love love love the quick snap. You are right as well. The team can get up to the line quickly to prevent substitutions then let Nassib call the play after having plenty of time to survey the defense. With so much time with both sides lined up also makes it prime for the QB to draw the defense offside.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Really to me it's another way that team with maybe slightly less talent can compete with teams with slightly more, it's a way to bridge the gap a lot of the times, and what allows Northwestern to compete in the Big 10, they are never going to be worldbeaters but you better be prepared to play them or they will make you look foolish. Good post.

You can't play SEC football with inferior talent, just can't

 

[bnoro]

One thing that I noticed last year was Nassib's inability to quick snap. The line and receivers would be set, but he would go behind center or be in shotgun and would take too much time with his checks. Especially when the defense was still scrambling around. If that can improve, I think we could catch some D's on their back feet.

Making reads of what the defense is playing is more important than getting a quick snap 95% of the time.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Really to me it's another way that team with maybe slightly less talent can compete with teams with slightly more, it's a way to bridge the gap a lot of the times, and what allows Northwestern to compete in the Big 10, they are never going to be worldbeaters but you better be prepared to play them or they will make you look foolish.

That's the thing and what makes me struggle so much with the "talent" crowd. How much better talent do we expect to get, realistically? We can't control talent all that much.

Tempo though, that is something we can make a choice on and control, and I think we'd be more successful offensively if we made a choice to play a faster tempo, and then strategically varied tempo.

 

[Czar]

Making reads of what the defense is playing is more important than getting a quick snap 95% of the time.

If the defense isn't set it sure as hell isn't. Again, this isn't the NFL.

 

[bnoro]

If the defense isn't set it sure as hell isn't. Again, this isn't the NFL.

I left 5% for a reason.

 

[Czar]

I left 5% for a reason.

Even then, I'm sorry, but college defenses are not that complicated.

 

[bnoro]

Even then, I'm sorry, but college defenses are not that complicated.

Not sure what your point is? You'd rather he snaps it quick than read the defense and see what's available?

 

[kcsu]

If the defense isn't set it sure as hell isn't. Again, this isn't the NFL.

Borno is starting to feel a little like Phats son. Simple point if you have better talent take your time and make the read. If you dont try to speed up the tempo and take them out of the package they want to get into.

 

[Rocco]

Making reads of what the defense is playing is more important than getting a quick snap 95% of the time.

When the defense isn't set, get the ball off. It will work more time than not. Why let the D get settled?

 

[bnoro]

When the defense isn't set, get the ball off. It will work more time than not. Why let the D get settled?

I wasn't talking about that. The complaint was that he never quick snaps. The 95% was in reference to his reads when the defense is set. The 5% is when the D is scrambling. And sometimes, a moving D can confuse a young line, as well as the blocking RB. So if we aren't ready, he should be doing this.

 

[44PRIDE]

I place the majority of the tempo issues at the feet of the coaching staff. How many times did we see a confused coaching staff scrambling to make an incorrect situational call? Get the plays in quicker.

This has been the one main reason I've been against giving Marrone an extension. He's made some very questionable decisions at some crucial points in the game.

 

[upperdeck]

but i guess we all forget there is more to presnap reads then just what the qb sees. you need to make sure the oline knows who to block and the rcvrs need to run the correct routes and the Rbs need to go the right direction.. i think people forget how many times we had plays called and had break downs, speeding things up is not going to fix all of that. we had max protection issues against 3-4 man rushes that didnt work.

 

[Scooch]

Great post.

Marrone promised a fast-paced offense and we haven't seen anything remotely close to that in 3 seasons.

It's unfortunate.

 

[SoBristol]

Great post.

Marrone promised a fast-paced offense and we haven't seen anything remotely close to that in 3 seasons.

It's unfortunate.

Can't go by what he promised. The guys he has brought in as JUCOs/transfers (Tiller, Alexander, Hay, Cruz), and his recruits (with few exceptions), aren't built for a fast-paced offense. Maybe Macky, Kobena, Gulley and Morris are the exceptions. For the most part, he has recruited bigger guys for a meat & potatoes offense.

 

[Scooch]

Can't go by what he promised. The guys he has brought in as JUCOs/transfers (Tiller, Alexander, Hay, Cruz), and his recruits (with few exceptions), aren't built for a fast-paced offense. Maybe Macky, Kobena, Gulley and Morris are the exceptions. For the most part, he has recruited bigger guys for a meat & potatoes offense.

Huh?

You can play any style quickly.

He chooses not to.

 

[Jake]

I think what Buddha was getting at isn't necessarily the concept of no huddle... An offense can establish a firm tempo in any style of offense. But you can only do it if the offense is confident and successful. It's hard to have a good tempo if you have a lot of three and outs. Sort of a chicken and egg issue...

 

[Millhouse]

if your offense sucks, you don't go up tempo.

if you think the cost of giving the other teams more plays outweighs whatever offensive improvement you get from speeding things up, you don't go up tempo

baylor and oregon love going up tempo. If you think they're awesome because of that, well, i don't know what to say. when you're awesome and you're better on a per play basis, you want to amplify that by having more plays

last year against fbs - we had 5.09 yards per play. opponents had 5.55 per play. we had 68 offensive plays

here's a hypothetical scenario

assume opponents get the same number of plays as us

let's say going up tempo helps us .2 yards per play and only helps the opponents offense half as much (.1). our defense might get more tired if we're off the field quicker sothat's reasonable. i'm assuming we get twice the benefit.

let's say we each get 10 more plays out of it.

the difference in total yards is made a few yards worse. even though our offense has improved, it's not worth giving the better offense more plays. feel free to check my math

stupidly assuming that going up tempo only helps us doesn't get us anywhere. it's easy to come up with reasonable assumptions for why it makes things worse

the offense doesnt suck because of slow tempo, we have a slow tempo because the offense sucks

why do people think that marrone was full of it when he originally said he prefers to go up tempo? it's quite possible he still does. no one wants to wait forever until the offensive players are better, if he can't get guys good enough to do what he wants to, he'll be shown the door. but that time's not here yet. in the meantime i don't blame him one bit.

i just shake my head at knuckleheads who think the problems with the offense were that Bailey ran too much, Nassib ran too little, Ameen Moore ran too little and Nassib threw too little

 

[All4SU]

One philosophy seems to be to out-execute the opponent. The other seems to be to utilize tempo to out maneuver the opponent. Personally, I agree with Buddha. I would like to see SU do more to impose it's will upon the other team, through selective change of tempo -- not random stuff tried willy nilly. (That's the first time I've ever been able to use willy nilly in a post.) Get an advantage where you can to try and keep the opponent on their heels. As Buddha says, it's a way to level the "talent" playing field a little.