Thamel article on noel

[Whitey23]

I have a question. May be stupid, but here goes. Do former players flock back to UK every season to watch them play in Rupp or in the SEC tournament? If Noel wants to be part of a true family and a program and fanbase that has his back even AFTER he leaves, then SU is the only option he has.

Yes, they do one come back for games. They also have a pretty popular alumni game from what I remember.

 

[longislandcuse]

I think everyone is somewhat skeptical that these things go on everywhere, but Cal takes a lot of heat because of the vacated FF appearances and quite frankly his career is a little sketchy. I mean, what other coach has taken middling programs like Memphis and UMass and suddenly had them recruiting like elite schools? UMass has never recovered, and Memphis has Will Barton, but I think he was a Cal recruit anyway.

All things being equal, what makes a kid suddenly decide Memphis is the place to be when he could go to UNC, Duke, Syracuse, UCLA, Michigan, UK - pretty much anywhere else. Especially if you're implying they all do the same things. Hell, Duke will get your parents cushy jobs, so it must be something more. Is Cal really that much more likable? His street agents are just better connected (i.e. WWW)?

It's a level playing field now because he has the UK brand, and a reputation for delivering one-and-done type players to the NBA - but I would be surprised if there weren't big payments mixed in somehow.

When "things get sketchy" (according to beat writers) as soon as Calipari gets involved and some players he recruits mysteriously have big name programs drop their recruitment of said player it makes me think its something more.

 

[Ghost]

When "things get sketchy" (according to beat writers) as soon as Calipari gets involved and some players he recruits mysteriously have big name programs drop their recruitment of said player it makes me think its something more.

I could be misremembering but didn't John Wall really want to go to UNC but Roy Williams refused or stopped recruiting him for reasons he would not speak of?

 

[HoustonCuse]

Ancillary evidence can point you to conclusions without direct knowledge of something. I've always looked at it like this:

We can deduce that a time machine will never be invented at any point in the future of human history. How can I tell the future? Because if a time machine is created at any point in the future, there is no way that it wouldn't have traveled back to a point in our past and thus we would know about it. Since we have no evidence of this happening - we can conclude no time machine will ever be built.

On to college recruiting. You could always tell that no programs were cheating in recruiting (I mean egregiously) because no one program was sucking in all the top rated recruits year after year. This means all major programs cheated on a relatively equal basis or that severe cheating was largely an overblown drama created by fans. Thus, no special advantage really existed anywhere. If it did, we would see the top 5 recruits every year magically appear at one school. Well it just never happened - look back through the years and of course teams got good recruits but there was no glaring gravitational pull that sucked in every single top guy.

But now... I present to you the University of Kentucky.

 

[rstone7727]

I could be misremembering but didn't John Wall really want to go to UNC but Roy Williams refused or stopped recruiting him for reasons he would not speak of?

Seems I remember that too.. Something about Wall breaking into a vacant house in Raleigh, turned out to be a crack house or something (maybe a rumor)..

 

[Francis03]

Please tell me gtown isnt a legit threat

There goes your answer

 

[Francis03]

I think everyone is somewhat skeptical that these things go on everywhere, but Cal takes a lot of heat because of the vacated FF appearances and quite frankly his career is a little sketchy. I mean, what other coach has taken middling programs like Memphis and UMass and suddenly had them recruiting like elite schools? UMass has never recovered, and Memphis has Will Barton, but I think he was a Cal recruit anyway.

All things being equal, what makes a kid suddenly decide Memphis is the place to be when he could go to UNC, Duke, Syracuse, UCLA, Michigan, UK - pretty much anywhere else. Especially if you're implying they all do the same things. Hell, Duke will get your parents cushy jobs, so it must be something more. Is Cal really that much more likable? His street agents are just better connected (i.e. WWW)?

It's a level playing field now because he has the UK brand, and a reputation for delivering one-and-done type players to the NBA - but I would be surprised if there weren't big payments mixed in somehow.

Will Barton was Josh Pastner first big recruit at Memphis.

Here goes the low down on the Wall recruitment. Wall had some handlers that were controlling his recruitment. His AAU coach brother who I think played at Clemson was looking to land an assistant gig. Okie St and Scott Drew from Baylor were looking to take the bait. Drew ended up hiring the guy and most believed Wall was going to end up there. Wall decides to hold out until the spring and by then his mother becomes ill, which makes Wall wanting to stay closer to home. Now the handlers are in contact with Cal and Frank Haith who was at Miami during the time. Long story short, it was rumored that Wall loved his Miami trip(who wouldn't) and almost came close to committing there, but eventually Pay Pal Cal would win out and the rest was history. Scott Drew was not a happy camper but those handlers took care of him by sending Quincy Miller and Duece Bello to Baylor.

 

[omniorange]

Ancillary evidence can point you to conclusions without direct knowledge of something. I've always looked at it like this:

We can deduce that a time machine will never be invented at any point in the future of human history. How can I tell the future? Because if a time machine is created at any point in the future, there is no way that it wouldn't have traveled back to a point in our past and thus we would know about it. Since we have no evidence of this happening - we can conclude no time machine will ever be built.

On to college recruiting. You could always tell that no programs were cheating in recruiting (I mean egregiously) because no one program was sucking in all the top rated recruits year after year. This means all major programs cheated on a relatively equal basis or that severe cheating was largely an overblown drama created by fans. Thus, no special advantage really existed anywhere. If it did, we would see the top 5 recruits every year magically appear at one school. Well it just never happened - look back through the years and of course teams got good recruits but there was no glaring gravitational pull that sucked in every single top guy.

But now... I present to you the University of Kentucky.

Great post.

To piggy back on this using Scout's #1 recruiting classes since one-and-done:

2005 - Kansas, next year they finished #8
2006 - UNC - next year they didn't even finish in the Top 25
2007 - Kansas State - next year they didn't even finish in the Top 25
2008 - UCLA - next year they finish #9

2009 - Kentucky
2010 - Kentucky
2011 - Kentucky
2012 - right now Kentucky #2, likely #1 if Nerlen Noels signs

Cheers,
Neil

 

[310Pigpen]

Will Barton was Josh Pastner first big recruit at Memphis.

Here goes the low down on the Wall recruitment. Wall had some handlers that were controlling his recruitment. His AAU coach brother who I think played at Clemson was looking to land an assistant gig. Okie St and Scott Drew from Baylor were looking to take the bait. Drew ended up hiring the guy and most believed Wall was going to end up there. Wall decides to hold out until the spring and by then his mother becomes ill, which makes Wall wanting to stay closer to home. Now the handlers are in contact with Cal and Frank Haith who was at Miami during the time. Long story short, it was rumored that Wall loved his Miami trip(who wouldn't) and almost came close to committing there, but eventually Pay Pal Cal would win out and the rest was history. Scott Drew was not a happy camper but those handlers took care of him by sending Quincy Miller and Duece Bello to Baylor.

I'd like to hear the low down on more things like this.

 

[triplethrea]

Will Barton was Josh Pastner first big recruit at Memphis.

Here goes the low down on the Wall recruitment. Wall had some handlers that were controlling his recruitment. His AAU coach brother who I think played at Clemson was looking to land an assistant gig. Okie St and Scott Drew from Baylor were looking to take the bait. Drew ended up hiring the guy and most believed Wall was going to end up there. Wall decides to hold out until the spring and by then his mother becomes ill, which makes Wall wanting to stay closer to home. Now the handlers are in contact with Cal and Frank Haith who was at Miami during the time. Long story short, it was rumored that Wall loved his Miami trip(who wouldn't) and almost came close to committing there, but eventually Pay Pal Cal would win out and the rest was history. Scott Drew was not a happy camper but those handlers took care of him by sending Quincy Miller and Duece Bello to Baylor.

Love hearing how stuff really goes down. This is pretty much how I imagined it. What do the "handlers" offer the kids in exchange for sending them to a school?

 

[longislandcuse]

Will Barton was Josh Pastner first big recruit at Memphis.

Here goes the low down on the Wall recruitment. Wall had some handlers that were controlling his recruitment. His AAU coach brother who I think played at Clemson was looking to land an assistant gig. Okie St and Scott Drew from Baylor were looking to take the bait. Drew ended up hiring the guy and most believed Wall was going to end up there. Wall decides to hold out until the spring and by then his mother becomes ill, which makes Wall wanting to stay closer to home. Now the handlers are in contact with Cal and Frank Haith who was at Miami during the time. Long story short, it was rumored that Wall loved his Miami trip(who wouldn't) and almost came close to committing there, but eventually Pay Pal Cal would win out and the rest was history. Scott Drew was not a happy camper but those handlers took care of him by sending Quincy Miller and Duece Bello to Baylor.

This is interesting and highly disturbing at the same time. I always wondered how Baylor randomly became a recruiting powerhouse....well theres the answer.

 

[Madbiker]

This is what goes on with the top of the elite kids...the top 5-8 kids in a class who agents view as certain NBA lottery picks. It doesn't go down like this for the other 98% of recruits. SU rarely, if ever is involved with these kids. Noel is a rare exception probably because this kid's development exploded in the last 18 months.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

After reading that article, I don't want to take a chance on the kid for 1 season. Move on, we have enough issues.

Sent from my DROIDX

I think SU will be very careful knowing eyes are on this recruitment.

My concern is I don't think he is going to be the superstar everyone makes him out to be. He just doesn't have the offensive game. The expectations for him seem already to be too much. I can see him adding a good defensive presence and not much O, kind of like Fab.

Still would be a great get. Prestige to the program and another entry into the NBA. Plus SU can use the help at PF and maybe RS BMK.

 

[armory]

So the only reason Baylor is any good this year is because they got Calipari'd out of John Wall? interesting

 

[WalnutPark]

After reading that article, I don't want to take a chance on the kid for 1 season. Move on, we have enough issues.

Finally got around to reading this article. My thoughts exactly; guys has way too much baggage and playing wise he is the definition of raw. Do we want someone that raw who will be one and done and bring other risks/scrutiny to the program.

Interestingly enough my brother in law went to see him play while he was at Everett HS, a couple of years back. It was the game he cracked his knee-cap during pre-game warm ups. Did a simple layup and then limped to the bench, missed the rest of the season.

Tilton is similar to New Hampton (Lawrence Moten) and Brewster (CJ Fair); all elite New England/New Hampshire prep schools.

 

[EastCoast2]

Finally got around to reading this article. My thoughts exactly; guys has way too much baggage and playing wise he is the definition of raw. Do we want someone that raw who will be one and done and bring other risks/scrutiny to the program.

Interestingly enough my brother in law went to see him play while he was at Everett HS, a couple of years back. It was the game he cracked his knee-cap during pre-game warm ups. Did a simple layup and then limped to the bench, missed the rest of the season.

Tilton is similar to New Hampton (Lawrence Moten) and Brewster (CJ Fair); all elite New England/New Hampshire prep schools.

Brewster pumps out some players. CJ Fair, Will Barton, Mitch McGary

 

[mscanlo]

I question he pays anybody indirectly either. Too risky. He created an environment where everybody is paying everybody not in money, but in connections. Like the Davis for Noel trade I mentioned earlier. Agents may pay high school players in money, drugs, girls, whatever they're into so they will attend a certain school. In exchange Calipari will offer that agent one of his top player's NBA contract either directly to the same agent or somebody in the agent's company.

This way Calipari gets off clean. Come on, you don't think somebody would've been caught by now if Calipari was paying players directly or indirectly? As if nobody has their eyes on him.

Even as a Syracuse fan, I have no doubt that my team does the same if it has reached this elite level. There is a reason why we only recruit in certain areas. That's where OUR connections, agents, etc are. I doubt our crap smells like roses.

friend sat next to a scout at a kentucky game. scout said calipari's price is $200k per person. made it sound like this was well known throughout basketball. paid in cash, probably not by calipari directly, which is why it's hard to track

 

[Whitey23]

I could be misremembering but didn't John Wall really want to go to UNC but Roy Williams refused or stopped recruiting him for reasons he would not speak of?

John Wall’s AAU Coach Does Not Like Roy Williams​

 

[Whitey23]

I'd like to hear the low down on more things like this.

For Baylor, a Reminder of One Who Got Away

Behind John Wall