The 3-3-5

[sutomcat]

I am mystified at people being unhappy with the 3-3-5. It was widely reported it was going to take a couple of years to hit full stride, but I think it has made an immediate inpac.

Here are stats for last season, when we ran a traditional Tampa 2, and the defense was far healthier and more experienced than today.
2019:

Stat	Rank	Value
Total Offense	71​	394.6​
Rushing Offense	71​	154.0​
Passing Offense	60​	240.6​
Team Passing Efficiency	63​	135.88​
Scoring Offense	69​	28.3​
Total Defense	115​	464.1​
Rushing Defense	109​	201.6​
Passing Yards Allowed	110​	262.5​
Team Passing Efficiency Defense	43​	125.86​
Scoring Defense	T-88​	30.7​
Turnover Margin	13​	0.75​
3rd Down Conversion Pct	88​	0.380​
4th Down Conversion Pct	110​	0.393​
3rd Down Conversion Pct Defense	101​	0.427​
4th Down Conversion Pct Defense	T-11​	0.368​
Red Zone Offense	T-110​	0.761​
Red Zone Defense	47​	0.810​
Net Punting	3​	43.03​
Punt Returns	51​	8.56​
Kickoff Returns	96​	19.09​
First Downs Offense	98​	239​
First Downs Defense	T-105​	283​
Fewest Penalties Per Game	128​	8.92​
Fewest Penalty Yards Per Game	128​	73.92​
Time of Possession	84​	29:19​

Here are the stats for this season, where we are dealing with massive injuries across the board.

2020:

Stat	Rank	Value
Total Offense	100​	266.6​
Rushing Offense	98​	90.3​
Passing Offense	84​	176.3​
Team Passing Efficiency	95​	106.49​
Scoring Offense	90​	19.0​
Total Defense	86​	473.0​
Rushing Defense	92​	227.6​
Passing Yards Allowed	61​	245.4​
Team Passing Efficiency Defense	42​	129.05​
Scoring Defense	72​	33.3​
Turnover Margin	25​	0.71​
3rd Down Conversion Pct	101​	0.235​
4th Down Conversion Pct	90​	0.308​
3rd Down Conversion Pct Defense	68​	0.445​
4th Down Conversion Pct Defense	T-46​	0.538​
Red Zone Offense	T-98​	0.600​
Red Zone Defense	30​	0.781​
Net Punting	17​	41.82​
Punt Returns	24​	12.18​
Kickoff Returns	33​	21.60​
First Downs Offense	68​	93​
First Downs Defense	102​	181​
Fewest Penalties Per Game	T-61​	6.71​
Fewest Penalty Yards Per Game	69​	62.00​
Time of Possession	97​	25:05​

Bottom line, total defense has improved from 110th to 86th. Passing defense was gone from 109th to 92nd. Passing defense has gone from 110th to 61st.

Red zone defense has gone from 47th to 30th. Scoring defense went from 88th to 72nd.

Defensive TDs went from 33rd to tied for 1st.

Turnovers gained went from 12th to 1st.

A lot of these numbers aren’t great, but progress has been made. Despite massive injuries and turnover from last year to this year.

I think the performance of the defense, given how little time the kids to learn it and many injuries have occurred, is nothing short of amazing. Given our circumstances, we absolutely should be ranked near the bottom of any defensive metric. That we are actually doing well in some areas is mind boggling.

 

[GoSU96]

I am mystified at people being unhappy with the 3-3-5. It was widely reported it was going to take a couple of years to hit full stride, but I think it has made an immediate inpac.

Here are stats for last season, when we ran a traditional Tampa 2, and the defense was far healthier and more experienced than today.
2019:

Stat	Rank	Value
Total Offense	71​	394.6​
Rushing Offense	71​	154.0​
Passing Offense	60​	240.6​
Team Passing Efficiency	63​	135.88​
Scoring Offense	69​	28.3​
Total Defense	115​	464.1​
Rushing Defense	109​	201.6​
Passing Yards Allowed	110​	262.5​
Team Passing Efficiency Defense	43​	125.86​
Scoring Defense	T-88​	30.7​
Turnover Margin	13​	0.75​
3rd Down Conversion Pct	88​	0.380​
4th Down Conversion Pct	110​	0.393​
3rd Down Conversion Pct Defense	101​	0.427​
4th Down Conversion Pct Defense	T-11​	0.368​
Red Zone Offense	T-110​	0.761​
Red Zone Defense	47​	0.810​
Net Punting	3​	43.03​
Punt Returns	51​	8.56​
Kickoff Returns	96​	19.09​
First Downs Offense	98​	239​
First Downs Defense	T-105​	283​
Fewest Penalties Per Game	128​	8.92​
Fewest Penalty Yards Per Game	128​	73.92​
Time of Possession	84​	29:19​

Here are the stats for this season, where we are dealing with massive injuries across the board.

2020:

Stat	Rank	Value
Total Offense	100​	266.6​
Rushing Offense	98​	90.3​
Passing Offense	84​	176.3​
Team Passing Efficiency	95​	106.49​
Scoring Offense	90​	19.0​
Total Defense	86​	473.0​
Rushing Defense	92​	227.6​
Passing Yards Allowed	61​	245.4​
Team Passing Efficiency Defense	42​	129.05​
Scoring Defense	72​	33.3​
Turnover Margin	25​	0.71​
3rd Down Conversion Pct	101​	0.235​
4th Down Conversion Pct	90​	0.308​
3rd Down Conversion Pct Defense	68​	0.445​
4th Down Conversion Pct Defense	T-46​	0.538​
Red Zone Offense	T-98​	0.600​
Red Zone Defense	30​	0.781​
Net Punting	17​	41.82​
Punt Returns	24​	12.18​
Kickoff Returns	33​	21.60​
First Downs Offense	68​	93​
First Downs Defense	102​	181​
Fewest Penalties Per Game	T-61​	6.71​
Fewest Penalty Yards Per Game	69​	62.00​
Time of Possession	97​	25:05​

Bottom line, total defense has improved from 110th to 86th. Passing defense was gone from 109th to 92nd. Passing defense has gone from 110th to 61st.

Red zone defense has gone from 47th to 30th. Scoring defense went from 88th to 72nd.

Defensive TDs went from 33rd to tied for 1st.

Turnovers gained went from 12th to 1st.

A lot of these numbers aren’t great, but progress has been made. Despite massive injuries and turnover from last year to this year.

I think the performance of the defense, given how little time the kids to learn it and many injuries have occurred, is nothing short of amazing. Given our circumstances, we absolutely should be ranked near the bottom of any defensive metric. That we are actually doing well in some areas is mind boggling.

Tom, there are about 30 less teams playing.

 

[money3189]

I am mystified at people being unhappy with the 3-3-5. It was widely reported it was going to take a couple of years to hit full stride, but I think it has made an immediate inpac.

Here are stats for last season, when we ran a traditional Tampa 2, and the defense was far healthier and more experienced than today.
2019:

Stat	Rank	Value
Total Offense	71​	394.6​
Rushing Offense	71​	154.0​
Passing Offense	60​	240.6​
Team Passing Efficiency	63​	135.88​
Scoring Offense	69​	28.3​
Total Defense	115​	464.1​
Rushing Defense	109​	201.6​
Passing Yards Allowed	110​	262.5​
Team Passing Efficiency Defense	43​	125.86​
Scoring Defense	T-88​	30.7​
Turnover Margin	13​	0.75​
3rd Down Conversion Pct	88​	0.380​
4th Down Conversion Pct	110​	0.393​
3rd Down Conversion Pct Defense	101​	0.427​
4th Down Conversion Pct Defense	T-11​	0.368​
Red Zone Offense	T-110​	0.761​
Red Zone Defense	47​	0.810​
Net Punting	3​	43.03​
Punt Returns	51​	8.56​
Kickoff Returns	96​	19.09​
First Downs Offense	98​	239​
First Downs Defense	T-105​	283​
Fewest Penalties Per Game	128​	8.92​
Fewest Penalty Yards Per Game	128​	73.92​
Time of Possession	84​	29:19​

Here are the stats for this season, where we are dealing with massive injuries across the board.

2020:

Stat	Rank	Value
Total Offense	100​	266.6​
Rushing Offense	98​	90.3​
Passing Offense	84​	176.3​
Team Passing Efficiency	95​	106.49​
Scoring Offense	90​	19.0​
Total Defense	86​	473.0​
Rushing Defense	92​	227.6​
Passing Yards Allowed	61​	245.4​
Team Passing Efficiency Defense	42​	129.05​
Scoring Defense	72​	33.3​
Turnover Margin	25​	0.71​
3rd Down Conversion Pct	101​	0.235​
4th Down Conversion Pct	90​	0.308​
3rd Down Conversion Pct Defense	68​	0.445​
4th Down Conversion Pct Defense	T-46​	0.538​
Red Zone Offense	T-98​	0.600​
Red Zone Defense	30​	0.781​
Net Punting	17​	41.82​
Punt Returns	24​	12.18​
Kickoff Returns	33​	21.60​
First Downs Offense	68​	93​
First Downs Defense	102​	181​
Fewest Penalties Per Game	T-61​	6.71​
Fewest Penalty Yards Per Game	69​	62.00​
Time of Possession	97​	25:05​

Bottom line, total defense has improved from 110th to 86th. Passing defense was gone from 109th to 92nd. Passing defense has gone from 110th to 61st.

Red zone defense has gone from 47th to 30th. Scoring defense went from 88th to 72nd.

Defensive TDs went from 33rd to tied for 1st.

Turnovers gained went from 12th to 1st.

A lot of these numbers aren’t great, but progress has been made. Despite massive injuries and turnover from last year to this year.

I think the performance of the defense, given how little time the kids to learn it and many injuries have occurred, is nothing short of amazing. Given our circumstances, we absolutely should be ranked near the bottom of any defensive metric. That we are actually doing well in some areas is mind boggling.

It’s amazing that we improved at all with having one of the worse offenses in the country that keeps are young defenders on the field all game. Imagine how much better the defense would be if we were decent on offense.

 

[money3189]

Agree with you, but success in the 335 requires the front 3 to at least control or be neutral at the line of scrimmage. That is not even coming close to happening. I guess it doesn't matter though, this entire season is a huge dumpster fire

We will get pushed around in a 4 man front too. It’s gonna take time with this scheme. We said from day one that we would give up some yards this year as they learn how to play in it. It makes it harder when you are doing it with freshman and sophomores. Again, this specific scheme is not meant to have hugh interior lineman. It’s movement based. The issue is execution is not consistent. DL not keeping good gap integrity. Even on stunts they are cheating and chasing up field. Getting washed a lot on down blocks. That puts a lot of pressure on a young LB unit that are trying to figure out their fits as well. That’s just some of things I see. There’s more. Its just gonna take time. We will be better next year.

 

[CuseMan4]

I’m not a football expert but I feel like we need to mix in some more 3-4. Our linebackers the next few years are very talented. We have some young d-lineman that hopefully progress and become good. So you have your 3 down lineman. But I think a line backing Corp of

OLB-Linton ILB-Jones ILB-GCA OLB-Richards

Rotate Thompson and Lee in as well and that’s a good group with great size.

I think we have some good backers and ends coming in this class too that have great length and size. I also think Kinsler is going to be really good here. I think he fits the mold of Richards, Linton, and GCA in terms of size and length. We just need these guys to hit the weight room and film room this off season to take the next step but the tangibles are there.

 

[23Zone]

We will get pushed around in a 4 man front too. It’s gonna take time with this scheme. We said from day one that we would give up some yards this year as they learn how to play in it. It makes it harder when you are doing it with freshman and sophomores. Again, this specific scheme is not meant to have hugh interior lineman. It’s movement based. The issue is execution is not consistent. DL not keeping good gap integrity. Even on stunts they are cheating and chasing up field. Getting washed a lot on down blocks. That puts a lot of pressure on a young LB unit that are trying to figure out their fits as well. That’s just some of things I see. There’s more. Its just gonna take time. We will be better next year.

That's not saying much, can't be any worse lol

 

[money3189]

That's not saying much, can't be any worse lol

Whats not saying much? and what can't be any worse?

 

[sutomcat]

Tom, there are about 30 less teams playing.

I checked. There are 27 right now. It skews things a bit.

But on the other side, Syracuse has only played one OOC game, and it was against a team currently ranked in the top 25. There was no opportunity to pad stats against badly overmatched opponents.

I think it roughly balances out.

To my eyes, this scheme at least gives us a chance to get some stops and keep us in games against good teams, even with the massive injuries on to that unit. I think there is reason to be optimistic our team will be better next season. Probably significantly better. A lot depends on what happens with all the seniors on the DL.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

For those questioning the scheme, Clemson says hello.

New DC, no time to implement, never faced these ACC teams, bunch of Frosh and Sophs on the field, DL that wasn't recruited to play this system. Can we not throw it away quite yet?

As to the type of DL White wants we can only speculate. He might want nimble guys who are blowing up plays and not space eaters. We shouldn't assume.

 

[money3189]

For those questioning the scheme, Clemson says hello.

New DC, no time to implement, never faced these ACC teams, bunch of Frosh and Sophs on the field, DL that wasn't recruited to play this system. Can we not throw it away quite yet?

As to the type of DL White wants we can only speculate. He might want nimble guys who are blowing up plays and not space eaters. We shouldn't assume.

Some are so fickle. They dont like our record or coach so they look for anything they think is causing us to lose. There's no reasonable thought process. They think the answer is to change everything lol. And you are right he doesnt want space eaters. He wants explosive leaner bodies.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

For those questioning the scheme, Clemson says hello.

New DC, no time to implement, never faced these ACC teams, bunch of Frosh and Sophs on the field, DL that wasn't recruited to play this system. Can we not throw it away quite yet?

As to the type of DL White wants we can only speculate. He might want nimble guys who are blowing up plays and not space eaters. We shouldn't assume.

Well if ASU last year is any indication he will want space eaters. Here is the size of the DL that started vs Zona:

NT was 6'5 320
DE was 6'1 310 which is huge for that height
DE was 6'4 273

We have the size to have a two deep at DE. Problem is we are zero deep at NT. If Dino's plan was to go 3-3-5 why did he recruit undersized DEs and no DTs?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Well if ASU last year is any indication he will want space eaters. Here is the size of the DL that started vs Zona:

NT was 6'5 320
DE was 6'1 310 which is huge for that height
DE was 6'4 273

We have the size to have a two deep at DE. Problem is we are zero deep at NT. If Dino's plan was to go 3-3-5 why did he recruit undersized DEs and no DTs?

Then again if you look at San Diego State's DL vs BYU last year we are large on the DL:

NT was 6'5 265
DE was 6'4 275
DE was 6'2 265

Since ASU didn't have time to recruit to the system, SDSU is more likely the standard. Then again they are MWC vs P12 sized players so who knows.

It is interesting that their DEs were the bigger guys and the NT was smaller. Maybe we need a Kevin Mitchell at NT and not a Ted Washington.

 

[money3189]

Well if ASU last year is any indication he will want space eaters. Here is the size of the DL that started vs Zona:

NT was 6'5 320
DE was 6'1 310 which is huge for that height
DE was 6'4 273

We have the size to have a two deep at DE. Problem is we are zero deep at NT. If Dino's plan was to go 3-3-5 why did he recruit undersized DEs and no DTs?

Gonzales was the DC in 2018 and 2019. Tony was gonna take over this season. They didnt have time to inject the ideal players in the scheme.

 

[orangepassion]

Well if ASU last year is any indication he will want space eaters. Here is the size of the DL that started vs Zona:

NT was 6'5 320
DE was 6'1 310 which is huge for that height
DE was 6'4 273

We have the size to have a two deep at DE. Problem is we are zero deep at NT. If Dino's plan was to go 3-3-5 why did he recruit undersized DEs and no DTs?

I've posted it a few times, but I specifically asked Dino this on his show and he said they weren't looking for space eaters in this scheme, rather guys who can shoot gaps.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I've posted it a few times, but I specifically asked Dino this on his show and he said they weren't looking for space eaters in this scheme, rather guys who can shoot gaps.

Makes sense looking at SDSU's DL from last year. We just need to find another Chris Slayton and we are set.

 

[PhatOrange]

In watching some of the big run breakdowns I notice linebackers not reading the play properly, picking the wrong gaps and over pursuing a bit, then getting picked off or sealed by blockers while RBs cut back. Really screams young LBs. I think the DL, in my review, isn't so much the problem as the LBs. I think we'll see this really improve as the LBs grow.

 

[sutomcat]

In watching some of the big run breakdowns I notice linebackers not reading the play properly, picking the wrong gaps and over pursuing a bit, then getting picked off or sealed by blockers while RBs cut back. Really screams young LBs. I think the DL, in my review, isn't so much the problem as the LBs. I think we'll see this really improve as the LBs grow.

Agree with this. Our LBs look lost at times out there. On the job training.

There is a reason Ward loved to play seniors at LB when he was our DC. We have a bunch of kids playing against men and it shows.

 

[money3189]

In watching some of the big run breakdowns I notice linebackers not reading the play properly, picking the wrong gaps and over pursuing a bit, then getting picked off or sealed by blockers while RBs cut back. Really screams young LBs. I think the DL, in my review, isn't so much the problem as the LBs. I think we'll see this really improve as the LBs grow.

Yes, good observation. It would be nice to get Black Bear and Kings back next year. A long with a transfer or two. The older bodies help plus the experience in the scheme.