The 4th Down

[PhatOrange]

1st play to start the 4th Q. Ball on the LVile 30. 2nd and 10

DeVito drops back to pass with 5 wide. Decent pocket but DeVito has to step up. Decides to tuck and run north/south gains 6. Comes up limping and a pained look, appears to be something with right leg.

3rd and 4 ball on the LVille 24 yard line. Run to Jordan gain of 12 to the LVille 12 yard line.

1st and 10. Run up the middle with Jordan gains 3.

2nd and 7 on the 9 yard line.

DeVito quick slant to Jackson TD

---

Next Possession - LVille turnover

___

Syracuse with 1st and 10 at LVille 29 yard line. Score 49-34. 13:25 in the 4thQ

1st and 10 - Run up the middle Howard loss 1/2 yard .

2nd and 10 - Run up the middle Howard gain 1.5

AT THIS POINT DEVITO IS SHOWING NO SIGNS OF BEING HURT / INJURED

3rd and 9 ball at the LVille 28 yard line 5 wide. Line to make is the 19 yard line.

DeVito in shotgun. Harris appears to peel off and run an out at about the 15 yard line. DeVito lofts up a back corner fade. No one but red to the ball. These two are again not on the same page. My guess is that DeVito thinks Harris is running that double move, the same pattern TD misfired on earlier. Problem is LVille drops a linebacker into coverage - he's the guy who almost makes the pic. Even if Harris had run the route it's not going to work because LVille has it covered and the CB didn't bite.

So who is wrong ? This is when DeVito is benched. Did it lead to the benching? Everyone blamed TD but the mixup could've been on Harris again.

He might have been hurt but imo this isn't why he's benched. It looked like a straight benching to me but I didn't really see anything to say for certain. The series before he was fine and threw a TD. Maybe a culmination of things IDK? He did make a number of mistakes throughout the day but nothing that would make me think to bench him. Something off for sure. A timeout cuts us to commercial before we can see what the sideline interaction is. DeVito is standing a couple feet behind Babers and no-one is talking to DeVito.

Welch comes in and throws a duck off his back foot to the 3 yard line. Johnson is at the goaline. (Had he dumped it off to Mo Neal on the flare Neal has 1 man to beat who's 10 yards off the ball) Welch never looks over there. However, if Welch actually throws a good pass to Nykiem it's a touchdown.

I could speculate all day long about what the issue was but I really wonder if part of it has to do with DeVito not staying in the pocket and making a play. In similar situations teams have blitzed us and TD hasn't handled it. Louisville only ended up rushing 3 against Welch.

 

[Chip]

I thought Dino explained it pretty clearly. It was 4th and 9, and we needed our QB who could run on that play.

Wait.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I suppose I could post the article again that said DeVito wasn't 100% and Dino wanted a more mobile QB in the redzone...

but since you've already made your mind up, it would be pointless.

 

[upperdeck]

maybe because Tommy should have run on first or 2nd but handed off because he knew he couldnt run leading to 3rd and long..

if jackson doesnt get the holding call much of the issues are gone. as we stay in the game

 

[Scooch]

I just rewatched that sequence and I wouldn't say that he wasn't showing any signs of being hurt. After the 1st down handoff on DeVito's final series, he still appears to have a hitch in his gait as he walks away from the line. And his throw on that 3rd down was really awkward, he just kind of heaves it while shuffling his feet, almost like he can't put all of his weight on his leg.

He was banged up, it seems pretty clear.

Now, one can fairly question the staff as to why he was even out there if he was that banged up. And like others have said, I'd still probably prefer a gimpy DeVito trying to convert the 4th down over a perfectly healthy Welch. And why they didn't call a TO there is pretty baffling, given how critical that play was.

But, he was hurt.

 

[PhatOrange]

I suppose I could post the article again that said DeVito wasn't 100% and Dino wanted a more mobile QB in the redzone...

but since you've already made your mind up, it would be pointless.

I really don't need you to post an article because I heard with my own two ears what he said to Matt Park after the game. Go back and watch the series or two before and the sideline after. I think he's FOS.

If he's so hurt why wouldn't any trainers be talking to him and asking questions? He first goes to Lynch and Lynch I don't think even acknowledges him.

 

[PhatOrange]

I just rewatched that sequence and I wouldn't say that he wasn't showing any signs of being hurt. After the 1st down handoff on DeVito's final series, he still appears to have a hitch in his gait as he walks away from the line. And his throw on that 3rd down was really awkward, he just kind of heaves it while shuffling his feet, almost like he can't put all of his weight on his leg.

He was banged up, it seems pretty clear.

Now, one can fairly question the staff as to why he was even out there if he was that banged up. And like others have said, I'd still probably prefer a gimpy DeVito trying to convert the 4th down over a perfectly healthy Welch. And why they didn't call a TO there is pretty baffling, given how critical that play was.

But, he was hurt.

I do believe he was somewhat hurt as I said above but I don't believe that's why he came out.

The pass he lofts up there was another mix up between him and Harris. If Harris runs the out and up it's a jump ball. I didn't see any issue with the way he throws it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I do believe he was somewhat hurt as I said above but I don't believe that's why he came out.

The pass he lofts up there was another mix up between him and Harris. If Harris runs the out and up it's a jump ball. I didn't see any issue with the way he throws it.

I would agree there is definitely more going on here than what was said and being dinged up...

 

[Scooch]

I do believe he was somewhat hurt as I said above but I don't believe that's why he came out.

The pass he lofts up there was another mix up between him and Harris. If Harris runs the out and up it's a jump ball. I didn't see any issue with the way he throws it.

One thing I was wondering... did the quick interception throw a wrench into things? DeVito was clearly hobbling after the TD throw on the previous series. You can see him limping towards the end zone to celebrate. Needless to say, I didn't see what was transpiring on the sidelines afterwards, but perhaps the staff was trying to determine if he was good enough to continue? The shock of the D actually making a quick stop* might have forced them to send TD back out before they knew if he was really OK.

And we'll just have to agree to disagree on the 3rd down throw. To me it looks like he hops a bit as he throws it, without setting his feet at all. It didn't look right to me.

(*make no mistake, this is a purposeful shot at our terrible defense)

 

[Millhouse]

I suppose I could post the article again that said DeVito wasn't 100% and Dino wanted a more mobile QB in the redzone...

but since you've already made your mind up, it would be pointless.

glass houses dude

 

[Millhouse]

I really don't need you to post an article because I heard with my own two ears what he said to Matt Park after the game. Go back and watch the series or two before and the sideline after. I think he's FOS.

If he's so hurt why wouldn't any trainers be talking to him and asking questions? He first goes to Lynch and Lynch I don't think even acknowledges him.

this is exactly right

 

[Scooch]

this is exactly right

Is there video of the sideline interactions? I really want to Zapruder the hell out of this thing, it beats talking about how awful this season has been.

 

[JRHEETER]

One thing is for sure

Devito needs to work with Taj this off season like he did with Jackson last offseason...That way they can be on the same page

 

[rrlbees]

You guys are all nuts. If Dino was unhappy with devito he would have had Welch warming up. He was hurting and may have had 2 injuries. Dino didn’t want to further aggregate either one. He wanted to run a play he felt Welch could also hit but if needed he could bail and run which he didn’t want tommy to do. And after that play tommy never came back in. If he wasn't hurting, he would have. Dino is devitos biggest supporter. He’s not going into the last few series’s needing to pull out a win to be bowl eligible by going with his back up QB.

 

[Scooch]

You guys are all nuts. If Dino was unhappy with devito he would have had Welch warming up. He was hurting and may have had 2 injuries. Dino didn’t want to further aggregate either one. He wanted to run a play he felt Welch could also hit but if needed he could bail and run which he didn’t want tommy to do. And after that play tommy never came back in. If he wasn't hurting, he would have. Dino is devitos biggest supporter. He’s not going into the last few series’s needing to pull out a win to be bowl eligible by going with his back up QB.

Was Welch warming up after the first series of the 4th where DeVito threw the TD? Because that was the series where he clearly got hurt, running a few plays before the score.

If not, I’m really perplexed. TD was hurt, it’s obvious. After the Cisco pick he hands off twice (continuing to limp a little), then throws that terrible misconnection fade. If Welch wasn’t warming up at all in the previous few minutes then I think the staff blew it. I actually buy Dino saying he pulled TD because of injury, but then it’s a really poor job by him for sending Welch in cold. It’s not like the injury happened the play before. It was the series before.

 

[Chip]

We run a play on that 4th and 9 that DeVito probably delivers a good pass. Welch throws it 4 yards short.

Everything Dino touches isn't turning to gold this year.

 

[tbonezone]

we need to look further into this

 

[Millhouse]

You guys are all nuts. If Dino was unhappy with devito he would have had Welch warming up. He was hurting and may have had 2 injuries. Dino didn’t want to further aggregate either one. He wanted to run a play he felt Welch could also hit but if needed he could bail and run which he didn’t want tommy to do. And after that play tommy never came back in. If he wasn't hurting, he would have. Dino is devitos biggest supporter. He’s not going into the last few series’s needing to pull out a win to be bowl eligible by going with his back up QB.

this is baghdad bob stuff

on 4th and 8, you don't worry about running, the ball is going to get thrown. if a guy is already hurt, you don't put him in for first through third down. if a guy is that banged up and you've kept playing him, you wouldn't see something in some silly miscommunicated incompletion that says "oh look how much that toss hurt him, get him out"

 

[Millhouse]

Was Welch warming up after the first series of the 4th where DeVito threw the TD? Because that was the series where he clearly got hurt, running a few plays before the score.

If not, I’m really perplexed. TD was hurt, it’s obvious. After the Cisco pick he hands off twice (continuing to limp a little), then throws that terrible misconnection fade. If Welch wasn’t warming up at all in the previous few minutes then I think the staff blew it. I actually buy Dino saying he pulled TD because of injury, but then it’s a really poor job by him for sending Welch in cold. It’s not like the injury happened the play before. It was the series before.

the simplest explanation is he got pissed and irrational over a final straw throwaway. the injuries were there, nothing about the third down showed any worse injury, he would've had guys get warm, and he would've had the guy who's not going in get treatment.

 

[rrlbees]

the simplest explanation is he got pissed and irrational over a final straw throwaway. the injuries were there, nothing about the third down showed any worse injury, he would've had guys get warm, and he would've had the guy who's not going in get treatment.

maybe the treatment was at halftime. That’s when the first injury happened. To believe what some of you are saying you have to believe that Babers was willing to use his back up QB needing to win the game to go bowling.

 

[rrlbees]

this is baghdad bob stuff

on 4th and 8, you don't worry about running, the ball is going to get thrown. if a guy is already hurt, you don't put him in for first through third down. if a guy is that banged up and you've kept playing him, you wouldn't see something in some silly miscommunicated incompletion that says "oh look how much that toss hurt him, get him out"

And if the pass wasn’t there or if the rush got through, the qb would have to high tail it. Dino didn’t think that was good for tommy.

 

[Millhouse]

And if the pass wasn’t there or if the rush got through, the qb would have to high tail it. Dino didn’t think that was good for tommy.

on 4th and 8, you just force the ball in. he pulled devito because he doesn't trust devito to do the right thing for the team (risk an interception). he got fed up with throwaways

do you realize how crazy it sounds to say with a straight face that we are going to take out a guy with a good arm on 4th and long for a guy with a bad arm and good feet?

 

[Millhouse]

maybe the treatment was at halftime. That’s when the first injury happened. To believe what some of you are saying you have to believe that Babers was willing to use his back up QB needing to win the game to go bowling.

It is much more plausible that babers thought "FFS i'm sick of this guy not giving receivers a chance, I can't watch this guy throw it away on 4th, at least welch will try to make a play"

 

[Scooch]

maybe the treatment was at halftime. That’s when the first injury happened. To believe what some of you are saying you have to believe that Babers was willing to use his back up QB needing to win the game to go bowling.

So Welch wasn’t warming up between series? I’m agreeing that DeVito was hurt, I just don’t understand why the staff wouldn’t have either (a) had him getting ready after DeVito’s *second* injury, or (b) called a TO before the 4th down so Welch would have a second to prep for the play. If they did (a) no one on the board has said they saw him warming up, or heard that he did.

No matter how you slice it, the whole sequence was strange.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Not sure why people can’t just admit this- if devito was not hurt and was actually benched, it’s horrible coaching. If devito was hurt and benched just on that fourth down play, it’s horrible coaching. Did anyone really think Welch would complete a pass there?

Kick a field goal.

Game was an absolute coaching disaster. We can admit these things.