The Athletic on recruiting

[SuFTW]

A definitive hedge. I couldn't remember the star ratings of some of those G-Rob wide receivers (Lobdell, Williams).

Williams (Bruce) was a 2 star headed to Rutgers before he got the SU offer, overachieved for his rating. Academic advisor in Whitman now. Lobdell was a 4 star.

 

[DomeStranger]

I think location has very little to do with the equation. It's all about money, it's really becoming as simple as that. Smaller schools are fighting an uphill battle which gets steeper every year. Someone with extra time on their hands, and some decent math skills can figure this out.

Base Enrollment: The more people you graduate, the more donors available
Multiply Tradition: The stronger your tradition, a higher % of the above will donate
Multiply Current Status: The better your team is currently, a higher % of above will donate

The more money Athletic dept's have busting at the seams, the more money will finds it's way to more and better facilities, more and better coaches, and finally, more money for recruits.

Right now Syracuse's numbers of the above, aren't very good.

 

[Deleted member 7047]

Yeah ur right. It doesn't matter though, there's only one school where it's easiest.

It's harder everywhere else. That's just the way life works.

That sounds really good, but what's the one school where it's easiest? It seems to me that it's pretty easy at Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Clemson, USC, Texas; I could go on, but I want to hear who the one easy school is.

If that was a joke that I didn't get, then I'm sorry.

 

[Steelerswan]

That doesn't really change the fact that there are legitimate recruiting disadvantages for SU vs our peers. There's a difference between making excuses and giving up and recognizing that it is harder to recruit here.

We can recruit here. We have targeted the skilled 3 star and developed some good ones. That's our ticket. The northern weather doesn't work bc a bunch of programs have overcome the weather thing. We have a great facility and are supposed to have an offense wrs are begging to be a part of. Upstate NY is beautiful and it's time to take advantage.

 

[Steelerswan]

That sounds really good, but what's the one school where it's easiest? It seems to me that it's pretty easy at Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Clemson, USC, Texas; I could go on, but I want to hear who the one easy school is.

If that was a joke that I didn't get, then I'm sorry.

These schools recruit based on history and pro players resulting. We have a nice situation up here and kids will play against the best talent in the nation. Again, it's developing those stud 3 stars like minny does and they play outdoors in conditions.

 

[dasher]

I didn't know the Prep school thing either until I was counting the Catholic HS kids and noticed a lot of Choates and Lawrences.

They also have a higher academic standard than we do. That hurts them with kids who are just decent students.

 

[dollarbill44]

I think location has very little to do with the equation. It's all about money, it's really becoming as simple as that. Smaller schools are fighting an uphill battle which gets steeper every year. Someone with extra time on their hands, and some decent math skills can figure this out.

Base Enrollment: The more people you graduate, the more donors available
Multiply Tradition: The stronger your tradition, a higher % of the above will donate
Multiply Current Status: The better your team is currently, a higher % of above will donate

The more money Athletic dept's have busting at the seams, the more money will finds it's way to more and better facilities, more and better coaches, and finally, more money for recruits.

Right now Syracuse's numbers of the above, aren't very good.

I agree about the money and disagree about location. For example, I have a college buddy who lives in south florida whose son was the starting QB at one of the big HS programs a few years ago. I asked him if his son was looking at SU (his parents' alma mater). He replied that all the kids on the team were either FSU, UF or Miami fans and those were their dream schools that if they got offered, they were going there. I suspect it is the same in GA, AL, OH, PA, VA, SC. TX, etc, all in talent rich states. It's not so much being able to reach the kids on recruiting, but rather being the team they dream of playing for.

 

[Steelerswan]

I agree about the money and disagree about location. For example, I have a college buddy who lives in south florida whose son was the starting QB at one of the big HS programs a few years ago. I asked him if his son was looking at SU (his parents' alma mater). He replied that all the kids on the team were either FSU, UF or Miami fans and those were their dream schools that if they got offered, they were going there. I suspect it is the same in GA, AL, OH, PA, VA, SC. TX, etc, all in talent rich states. It's not so much being able to reach the kids on recruiting, but rather being the team they dream of playing for.

Good point but all of these kids can't simply go all in on their high school dream program based on where they live. Plenty of stud recruits go out of state to blaze their own trail. Every good qb won't end up at texas, USC, nd, or UF in their dream. Again, most of what makes up P5 rosters are 3 stars. That's our game and a great team can result. You are basing this on a bunch of south florida kids wo a vision.

 

[dollarbill44]

Good point but all of these kids can't simply go all in on their high school dream program based on where they live. Plenty of stud recruits go out of state to blaze their own trail. Every good qb won't end up at texas, USC, nd, or UF in their dream. Again, most of what makes up P5 rosters are 3 stars. That's our game and a great team can result. You are basing this on a bunch of south florida kids wo a vision.

My point was that those schools have an advantage in that they are in talent rich areas and they are the top choices of the top recruits. SU isn't in a talent rich area and likely isn't the dream school of the best players in NYS. Instead, we have to go to those other states and compete with everyone else for the guys who aren't selected by their dream school.

 

[Newhouser]

Good point but all of these kids can't simply go all in on their high school dream program based on where they live. Plenty of stud recruits go out of state to blaze their own trail. Every good qb won't end up at texas, USC, nd, or UF in their dream. Again, most of what makes up P5 rosters are 3 stars. That's our game and a great team can result. You are basing this on a bunch of south florida kids wo a vision.

I don't think lack of vision is a South Florida thing. I think at all levels the recruited player thinks bigger schools are going to come after him. The d3 kid waits for D2, the Cuse kid waits for the ranked program. Human nature - everyone thinks they are better than they are.

 

[tipphill]

My wife has the account and isn't home, so I will read the article to check their methodology.

That said, BC has the advantages of a Catholic school pipeline (a quick, non-researched count suggests 26 players on their roster went to a Catholic HS) and NE Prep School pipeline (a quick, non-researched count suggests 17 players on their roster went to a Day / Prep school) that Cuse doesn't have.

perhaps, academics as well.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

perhaps, academics as well.

This wasn't a be-all-end-all list. Just an observation.

 

[orlandoorange]

That sounds really good, but what's the one school where it's easiest? It seems to me that it's pretty easy at Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Clemson, USC, Texas; I could go on, but I want to hear who the one easy school is.

If that was a joke that I didn't get, then I'm sorry.

Sorry, it wasnt a joke.

I'd bet if you went to a Texas A&M board someone would complain about the advantage Texas has.

There is always someone faster, someone smarter, someone richer, someone stronger. That's just how life is.

None of that matters as much as having a sound plan, discipline, persistence, and adapting as needed.

I love the upgrade we just had in facilities. What school can match that game day environment? I think JW and DB have us on a great path, and I'm not a huge fan of DB.

 

[orange_in_VA]

I think location has very little to do with the equation. It's all about money, it's really becoming as simple as that. Smaller schools are fighting an uphill battle which gets steeper every year. Someone with extra time on their hands, and some decent math skills can figure this out.

Base Enrollment: The more people you graduate, the more donors available
Multiply Tradition: The stronger your tradition, a higher % of the above will donate
Multiply Current Status: The better your team is currently, a higher % of above will donate

The more money Athletic dept's have busting at the seams, the more money will finds it's way to more and better facilities, more and better coaches, and finally, more money for recruits.

Right now Syracuse's numbers of the above, aren't very good.

Syracuse has a larger enrollment than the following ACC schools:
Louisville
Miami
Duke
Boston College
Wake Forest
Notre Dame*

We are also on par (within 2k) in enrollment with these ACC schools:
Clemson
Virginia

 

[IthacaBarrel]

love the upgrade we just had in facilities. What school can match that game day environment? I think JW and DB have us on a great path, and I'm not a huge fan of DB.

You need to get out more. Good lord.

In addition, people continue to bury their head in the sand, the report when it comes to recruiting at Syracuse is the same stuff that we have been discussing on this forum for years. They are big obstacles and sure some can be overcome and you have to work with what you have and where you are but there is no magic potion or new head coach that will ever come to Syracuse and recruit a bunch of 4 and 5 stars. It's never happened before when it was easier for Syracuse and the program also won a lot more.

 

[cuse10]

How does SU have "bigger obstacles" in the ACC than say BC?

Neither school is a great geographic fit for Tobacco Road, or remotely in 'crootin' hotbeds -
but at least Syracuse doesn't have about a dozen other sports that matter more to the locals than college football, including a NFL team.

Oh, and we have a Dome, and you don't!!! Neener neener neener!!!
-Dino Babers

There's talent in the New England area they will always have access to and some of those kids end up at BC.

Upstate New York has very little talent. Every now and then, you'll find a diamond in the rough that can play at this level, but compared to New England, it's not close. The elite NY players reside Downstate four hours away.

 

[upperdeck]

if you can find a way to win 3-4 yrs in a row many of the barriers get removed for success.. Sometimes its just finding that 1-2 players.. ED was close though, had he been a better passer to having the stuff you need. we needed to keep him healthy and probably would have had 4-6 more wins and that would have been on the cusp. Beat LSU/ND/Miami/Clemson and probably should have won 3 of those. 8 win seasons builds on itself.

 

[elimunelson]

Konrad was the last blue chip recruit.

pulled out of St John's Prep. The issue with Mass football now is the big highschools do not have the same relationship with SU like they did with Addazio/Pasqualoni/etc back in the day. The Connecticut mafia knew their way around those schools.

The other issue is like someone said the day schools/prep are THE show for the big talent in new england now. if you are any good at football you are landing in the ISL. ISL has been dominated by Michigan and to a lesser extent BC. We were able to pull someone out of Governors but the big boys of the ISL have all committed to Michigan of late. Dillon of BC WAS a michigan recruit and turned to BC when he got hurt

 

[elimunelson]

johnny morant might disagree

Konrad was a bigger recruit and perhaps the biggest recruit in the past 30-40 years (Green may have been higher). Had there been a more robust grading service, Konrad was a perennial top 25 guy and was a legit 5 star guy.

ND really wanted Rob. Getting #44 was a big deal for him if i recall

 

[HtownOrange]

The ACC disagree with the article. Circa 1991, the ACC began counting SU along with FSU to join the conference.

Apparently, the writer has no knowledge of history. From other comments, the writer has no knowledge of the conference (hoops, lacrosse, etc.).

Probably not worth the time to read the article, even if someone was kind enough to post it, and the whole copyrights issue disappeared.

 

[GoSU96]

Konrad was a bigger recruit and perhaps the biggest recruit in the past 30-40 years (Green may have been higher). Had there been a more robust grading service, Konrad was a perennial top 25 guy and was a legit 5 star guy.

ND really wanted Rob. Getting #44 was a big deal for him if i recall

that wasn’t the premise of the assertion I was responding to

back then this was the very definition of a blue chip

Johnnie Morant--WR--6'5, 225, 4.45 Parsippany Hills, NJ

Syracuse Recruiting--Class of 2000 signee

themole.www1.50megs.com

i guess we didn’t even get a thought from his son

 

[orlandoorange]

You need to get out more. Good lord.

In addition, people continue to bury their head in the sand, the report when it comes to recruiting at Syracuse is the same stuff that we have been discussing on this forum for years. They are big obstacles and sure some can be overcome and you have to work with what you have and where you are but there is no magic potion or new head coach that will ever come to Syracuse and recruit a bunch of 4 and 5 stars. It's never happened before when it was easier for Syracuse and the program also won a lot more.

Lol no doubt I need to get out more. But what other school has a huge center hung video board and state of the art lighting? the potential is huuuge

 

[FloridaFan]

Lol no doubt I need to get out more. But what other school has a huge center hung video board and state of the art lighting? the potential is huuuge

100 thousand fans chanting Rocky top or other songs can top that

 

[orlandoorange]

100 thousand fans chanting Rocky top or other songs can top that

It can, how many schools do that?

 

[elimunelson]

that wasn’t the premise of the assertion I was responding to

back then this was the very definition of a blue chip

Johnnie Morant--WR--6'5, 225, 4.45 Parsippany Hills, NJ

Syracuse Recruiting--Class of 2000 signee

themole.www1.50megs.com

i guess we didn’t even get a thought from his son

wow he was a legit top 25 guy. I thought Konrad was a first team all american in HS. Either way the last two big recruits for sure