The best recruiting class in CT...

[texascpa]

I just checked a few Princeton games. They had 5,000 people in a 27,000 seat stadium.

I repeat, why bother?

Being the "most popular sport" on an Ivy campus doesn't mean much. Compared to what? Ivy League baseball?

In actually watch games when they are on TV. I grew up in Princeton and am a 4th generation Townie. So I am interested, if only for old times sake. The stands look empty on the TV, anyway.

You could make this argument for most JC, Div III, Div II and even some FCS teams. I've gone to several Houston Baptist games and they rarely get over 5K. Heck, in fact, they only have seating one one side of the field!

 

[Townie72]

I don't get why the ivy is so hell bent on no academic scholarships. at this point why wouldn't they try and change the game?

The Ivys compete in lacrosse/hockey/basketball.

Well, they did.

Years ago they started giving all students extremely rich aid packages. They switched from giving financial aid packages with student loans and grants and work-study jobs to just flat out giving them whatever financial aid they could qualify for as a grant.

For a lot of football and basketball players and other people they want, that turns out to be nearly a scholarship given the astronomic cost of attendance.

 

[Townie72]

I’ve heard rumor they might remove the upper tier. As for Yale Bowl OrangeTarheel that is a historic venue and it is so far off campus that it doesn’t impact growth of the academic campus. Princeton’s beautiful football stadium along with most of its athletic facilities, does. Lots about to happen at Princeton.

Can't they just move the stadium (s) and playing fields across the Lake except for Jadwin Gym which is already on the Lake? It would complete the mission of building on or paving over every blade of grass South of Nassau Street.

 

[Townie72]

You could make this argument for most JC, Div III, Div II and even some FCS teams. I've gone to several Houston Baptist games and they rarely get over 5K. Heck, in fact, they only have seating one one side of the field!

I assume Houston Baptist does it for traditional reasons. It is Texas, afterall.

I've been to some D-III games that were well-attended and where the students and alumni seemed to care.

The difference between these small schools and some of the Ivies has to do with the amount of energy the school puts into a program the increasingly geeky (academically-focused) student body doesn't care about at all.

The alumni group that was on campus when the student body cared about football has grown older and older and less influential.

As I said originally, I can't see where the demand for the program comes from.

I'm guessing these won't be around much longer.

 

[texascpa]

I assume Houston Baptist does it for traditional reasons. It is Texas, afterall.

I've been to some D-III games that were well-attended and where the students and alumni seemed to care.

The difference between these small schools and some of the Ivies has to do with the amount of energy the school puts into a program the increasingly geeky (academically-focused) student body doesn't care about at all.

The alumni group that was on campus when the student body cared about football has grown older and older and less influential.

As I said originally, I can't see where the demand for the program comes from.

I'm guessing these won't be around much longer.

Actually HBU only has had a team since 2013. So, to your point, one needs to ask "why would a school with no football history all of a sudden put tons of resources into a fledgling FCS-level program"?

 

[Townie72]

Actually HBU only has had a team since 2013. So, to your point, one needs to ask "why would a school with no football history all of a sudden put tons of resources into a fledgling FCS-level program"?

It almost certainly has to do with the school's #1 need, having enough enrollment. As an accountant you probably know the important role of "revenue" from tuitions in balancing the books. I doubt HBU is getting much research money or has a huge endowment which are typically the other major sources of revenue along with donations.

In the past 20 years, colleges all over the country have poured (invested?) huge amounts of money into "amenities" in an effort to compete for students. Nicer dorms, student exercise facilities, nicer rooms, student unions, and just about anything else you can imagine. many of these projects look more like things you'd expect to find at a luxury resort.

Adding a money-long proposition like football is part of that effort to make the school competitive with others.

If you look at the Syracuse "plan", you'll see it's chock full of amenities and not a single classroom.

 

[texascpa]

It almost certainly has to do with the school's #1 need, having enough enrollment. As an accountant you probably know the important role of "revenue" from tuitions in balancing the books. I doubt HBU is getting much research money or has a huge endowment which are typically the other major sources of revenue along with donations.

In the past 20 years, colleges all over the country have poured (invested?) huge amounts of money into "amenities" in an effort to compete for students. Nicer dorms, student exercise facilities, nicer rooms, student unions, and just about anything else you can imagine. many of these projects look more like things you'd expect to find at a luxury resort.

Adding a money-long proposition like football is part of that effort to make the school competitive with others.

If you look at the Syracuse "plan", you'll see it's chock full of amenities and not a single classroom.

But that argument doesn't hold true to Ivys?

 

[Townie72]

But that argument doesn't hold true to Ivys?

I agree. And the Koch Brothers aren't going through the newspaper supermarket ads looking for deals on chicken breasts either.

But let's say you were a school and that you had more money than you could ever spend. And the ability to charge whatever you wanted to those who could afford to pay.

Princeton's Endowment is $22.2 Billion dollars and in 2014 they reported a 19.6% return on that or about $500 Million. Harvard's is $34B.

 

[NJCuse97]

I don't get why the ivy is so hell bent on no academic scholarships. at this point why wouldn't they try and change the game?

The Ivys compete in lacrosse/hockey/basketball.

Flip the question. Why would they? They don't hurt for money, enrollment, status. There's just no reason to open that box or mystery.

 

[NJCuse97]

Can't they just move the stadium (s) and playing fields across the Lake except for Jadwin Gym which is already on the Lake? It would complete the mission of building on or paving over every blade of grass South of Nassau Street.

Given all that you say, why spend all that money to build new when you can just downsize what you have? I believe across the lake on Washington Street is a preserved campus procession. Things are afoot. We'll all see some stuff in the near future. I have heard that if they get into pay for play, the Ivy schools would consider dropping it all together, but then again, why would they? They don't have athletic scholarships as it is?

 

[Townie72]

Given all that you say, why spend all that money to build new when you can just downsize what you have? I believe across the lake on Washington Street is a preserved campus procession. Things are afoot. We'll all see some stuff in the near future. I have heard that if they get into pay for play, the Ivy schools would consider dropping it all together, but then again, why would they? They don't have athletic scholarships as it is?

I thought you said or suggested that the University needed space for more buildings and that they would want those building contiguous with the current campus.

To do that, there's only a few places they can go and those athletic fields around what used to be Palmer Stadium over to the Observatory seem the most likely. Since money isn't a problem, they could just move the football stadium over there. (I don't know what "preserved campus procession" is.)

I guess they could also re-purpose Springdale Golf Course and develop that. It's not much of a golf course anyway.

Or they could fill in the so-called Lake which is essentially a mud hole anyway.

 

[NJCuse97]

I thought you said or suggested that the University needed space for more buildings and that they would want those building contiguous with the current campus.

To do that, there's only a few places they can go and those athletic fields around what used to be Palmer Stadium over to the Observatory seem the most likely. Since money isn't a problem, they could just move the football stadium over there. (I don't know what "preserved campus procession" is.)

I guess they could also re-purpose Springdale Golf Course and develop that. It's not much of a golf course anyway.

Or they could fill in the so-called Lake which is essentially a mud hole anyway.

Washington Road Elm Allée - Wikipedia
They are very careful about how they affect this procession and historic open land preserve. That doesn't mean they won't do anything, but seems unlikely they put a football stadium there. IMHO Princeton (former Palmer) Stadium is under threat of extinction, but I feel there is likely more creative integration into a new campus fabric that will surround and engage it, more like Nippert Stadium

 

[Ringostar57]

I agree. And the Koch Brothers aren't going through the newspaper supermarket ads looking for deals on chicken breasts either.

But let's say you were a school and that you had more money than you could ever spend. And the ability to charge whatever you wanted to those who could afford to pay.

Princeton's Endowment is $22.2 Billion dollars and in 2014 they reported a 19.6% return on that or about $500 Million. Harvard's is $34B.

19.6% Not about 500 million. More like 4.3 billion. Glad your not my financial advisor/accountant.

 

[Townie72]

19.6% Not about 500 million. More like 4.3 billion. Glad your not my financial advisor/accountant.

Whoops.

Can't imagine how I missed that. Maybe it was because $4.3 B seemed preposterous.

 

[CIL]

19.6% Not about 500 million. More like 4.3 billion. Glad your not my financial advisor/accountant.

Glad you’re not his grammar teacher.

Kidding of course.