The Big East isn't dead by a long shot!!! | Syracusefan.com

The Big East isn't dead by a long shot!!!

Shermthegeneral

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Back posting after a long long hiatus!!! Hopefully I can continue to post!
It’s somewhat of a bitter sweet day for me as I feel great that the football team will have more of a stable conference to play but feel like we are going over to the dark side because I always hated the ACC before and after they poached BC, Vtech, and Miami.
After reading all the talk that the ACC will possibly play at MSG and that the Big East is dead I looked at what possibly will happen and I feel the Big East will survive and I don’t think it will miss a beat. If the Big IX implodes like many predict, the Big East will pick up Kansas, K-State, Baylor and Iowa State. I’m also assuming UConn and Rutgers will go to the ACC and WVU to the SEC. If you break down the divisions, in my opinion, the league looks almost as strong as it does now.
New Big East
New Football Old Football
Kansas = Syracuse (this is a push)
Kansas State = UConn (Uconn is better in bball but kstate is on the rise)
Iowa State = Rutgers (another push)
TCU = WVU (WVU has an edge in bball but only recently)
Baylor = Pitt (Baylor is a better football program and bball is on the rise another push imo)
Louisville
South Florida
Baylor

Basketball
Gtown
St Johns
Providence
Notre Dame
Villanova
Depaul
Marquette
Seton Hall
 

dollarbill44

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I don't see your proposal as a viable "Big East" conference. I fail to see how there would be an alliance of the football schools and the basketball schools listed. It just isn't logical to align these two groups together. I think the hoops schools will scatter to A10/CUSA/MAC or poach from them and the football schools listed will find someplace else to go.
 

kingtidge

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I think the problem with the BE is Marinatto bungled this from the get go with pushing for the Nova Football deal - a deal we now know gave a number of longstanding BE schools' athletic directors and presidents serious reservations about the direction of the league and its leadership.

And consider this: Marinatto only found out about this defection AFTER it was leaked to the New York Times and while he was in the press box at the WVU/Maryland game... that's when he got the news. The Big East commissioner completely out of the loop.

IF the Big East is going to survive in football, it won't be with Marinatto at the helm... guy is damaged goods and I doubt any prospective addition schools would or should feel comfortable joining with him at the helm. It could also mean that the provincial power hold that the Providence round table holds in the league office may need to go... There are very few left that are buying what they're selling.
 

Noexcuse

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There is really nothing in that scenario from a football perspective that I would like if I were SU and not changing affiliation to the ACC. Also, TCU was already on the way in as a means of making the Conference stronger and Cincinnati fits in there somewhere as well.
 

44PRIDE

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The Big East as we know it is dead. The Big East name will carry on as a conference with rotating membership...a-la Conference USA.
 

BlazeOrange

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There is really nothing in that scenario from a football perspective that I would like if I were SU and not changing affiliation to the ACC. Also, TCU was already on the way in as a means of making the Conference stronger and Cincinnati fits in there somewhere as well.

OP put Baylor in the football list a 2nd time instead of Cinci.
 

Timonen

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that conference ain't getting (or keeping if somehow granfathered under the "big east" name) a BCS bid. that's C-USA.

good luck recruiting kids for that pile of crap.
 

VaSaltine

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Your Big East analysis is very viable and even likely, albeit non-BCS. It resembles another slightly upgraded Conference USA.
 

jordoo

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Why would any of the fball schools be interested in that? They are all going to be looking to be one of the 64 teams in the big 4 conferences. The SEC started it by going to an uneven number. The ACC countered with 20mil buy out and adding SU/Pitt to get to 14 ans see what cards they had after that to chose teams 15,16. Sounds like the PAC will be adding Texas, Texas Tech , Okla and Okla St pushing them to 16. Hitching your wagin to a league with all these bball only schools means you are hoping to be chosen by the BiG, ACC or SEC for one of their final spots.
 

Noexcuse

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Actually, dump the basketball onlies, add Central Florida and Memphis or Houston and you have a more or less geographically compact conference that makes a little sense.
 

OttosBestFriend

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Back posting after a long long hiatus!!! Hopefully I can continue to post!
If you break down the divisions, in my opinion, the league looks almost as strong as it does now.
New Big East
New Football Old Football
Kansas = Syracuse (this is a push)
Kansas State = UConn (Uconn is better in bball but kstate is on the rise)
Iowa State = Rutgers (another push)
TCU = WVU (WVU has an edge in bball but only recently)
Baylor = Pitt (Baylor is a better football program and bball is on the rise another push imo)
Louisville
South Florida
Baylor

Basketball
Gtown
St Johns
Providence
Notre Dame
Villanova
Depaul
Marquette
Seton Hall

Kansas and Syracuse are a "push" ??? Are you serious? Maybe if you go by the previous 5 years... but if we're talking 20, 30, 50 or 100 years, it's NOT EVEN CLOSE. Hoops yes, football no, no, no.

Oh, so KSTATE is "on the rise" ??? Are they so much on the rise that they're gonna win 3 National Titles in the next 12 years? Puuuuuhlease! KState will NEVER be UCONN in hoops - Not with Kansas recruiting against them just down the road.

Now you're 0 fer 2... What's next on your list of errors?

WVU has an edge in basketball, "but only recently" - I agree if by "recently" you mean the last 40 years.

Baylor-Pitt are "another push" in your opinion??? Baylor's been to ONE, count 'em ONE, bowl game since 1994 and only 8 since 1980. Their 2010 Bowl was a BLOWOUT loss to a mediocre Illinois squad 38-14. Pitt's been to 8 bowls since 2000 and 15 since 1980... HARDLY a "push" and I haven't even addressed the basketball side of things because it's so not a push, I don't wanna waste my time.

As for Rutgers and Iowa State, while they've both been pretty miserable in sports for the last several decades, the recruiting advantages the NJ provides conference mates when compared to that "fertile" state of Iowa is incredible.

Great job with being wrong... you may have broken the record for this forum.
 

Shermthegeneral

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I don't see much difference with that new Big East football and the current league. Yes it doesn't have the s e xy names of Syracuse, UConn, Pitt and WVU (if they are even s e xy in the college football world?) But if you really boil it down, the current Big East is a bunch of average football schools with an AQ to the BCS because of what it once was with Miami, Vtech and BC. I think that league will retain the BCS AQ! South Florida is Virginia Tech before it joined the Big East and will continue to be a top 25 program in years to come and TCU will be Miami when they first joined the Big East in the 90's.

As far as the argument that people fail to see the alliance between the football schools and bball schools, well the answer is simple imo, Kansas!!
Kansas is the Syracuse of the Big XII, they need a strong bball conference and Conference USA isn't the answer and no other league is looking to add Kansas. So the dominos start with Kansas and Kansas St will follow. If that happen, Baylor and Iowa State have no other options, why would they want to go to a non AQ league like Conference USA? The glue here is the Big East bball schools, the Big XII has nothing holding it together!
 

sufan

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Back posting after a long long hiatus!!! Hopefully I can continue to post!
It’s somewhat of a bitter sweet day for me as I feel great that the football team will have more of a stable conference to play but feel like we are going over to the dark side because I always hated the ACC before and after they poached BC, Vtech, and Miami.
After reading all the talk that the ACC will possibly play at MSG and that the Big East is dead I looked at what possibly will happen and I feel the Big East will survive and I don’t think it will miss a beat. If the Big IX implodes like many predict, the Big East will pick up Kansas, K-State, Baylor and Iowa State. I’m also assuming UConn and Rutgers will go to the ACC and WVU to the SEC. If you break down the divisions, in my opinion, the league looks almost as strong as it does now.
New Big East
New Football Old Football
Kansas = Syracuse (this is a push)
Kansas State = UConn (Uconn is better in bball but kstate is on the rise)
Iowa State = Rutgers (another push)
TCU = WVU (WVU has an edge in bball but only recently)
Baylor = Pitt (Baylor is a better football program and bball is on the rise another push imo)
Louisville
South Florida
Baylor

Basketball
Gtown
St Johns
Providence
Notre Dame
Villanova
Depaul
Marquette
Seton Hall

---------------------

The new combination of football teams will be an interesting mix: add in UCF, Missouri (if Big 10 stays at 12), and others.

However: the key is this is not an eastern conference and certainly not a northeast conference, assuming RU and UConn end up in the ACC or Big 10.
 

Shermthegeneral

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Kansas and Syracuse are a "push" ??? Are you serious? Maybe if you go by the previous 5 years... but if we're talking 20, 30, 50 or 100 years, it's NOT EVEN CLOSE. Hoops yes, football no, no, no.

Oh, so KSTATE is "on the rise" ??? Are they so much on the rise that they're gonna win 3 National Titles in the next 12 years? Puuuuuhlease! KState will NEVER be UCONN in hoops - Not with Kansas recruiting against them just down the road.

Now you're 0 fer 2... What's next on your list of errors?

WVU has an edge in basketball, "but only recently" - I agree if by "recently" you mean the last 40 years.

Baylor-Pitt are "another push" in your opinion??? Baylor's been to ONE, count 'em ONE, bowl game since 1994 and only 8 since 1980. Their 2010 Bowl was a BLOWOUT loss to a mediocre Illinois squad 38-14. Pitt's been to 8 bowls since 2000 and 15 since 1980... HARDLY a "push" and I haven't even addressed the basketball side of things because it's so not a push, I don't wanna waste my time.

As for Rutgers and Iowa State, while they've both been pretty miserable in sports for the last several decades, the recruiting advantages the NJ provides conference mates when compared to that "fertile" state of Iowa is incredible.

Great job with being wrong... you may have broken the record for this forum.

WOW!, I guess you're all fired up over there!!! I guess i should stop writing for ESPN with my lack of knowledge of the 2 sports!!! OBF is the judge and jury for all football and basketball related topics!!!

Listen, I have as much east coast bias as the next guy who lives in the northeast but you are really over valuating the Big East football. As far as basketball, who are you to tell me or anyone else who will be a solid bball program in the next 5 years or even next year? College basketball is all about the coach and who knows, TCU could be a powerhouse in 5 years. You have no clue! I enjoy having an itelleigent debate but have a little more tact!
 

All4SU

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The Big East as a football conference is dead. Two or more of WVU, UConn, Buttgers and L'Ville will be gone. The hangers on will be forced to align with whomever is left from Kansas, KSU, Iowa State, Baylor, UCF, et al. The BBall onlies will not want to tie their fortunes to yet another amalgam of football wannabees, and will finally return to the original BBall charter. SJU, GTown, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, Marquette, DePaul, will add UMass, Xavier and someone like St. Joes, etc. and retool a solid BBall conference, without the headaches that have come from the need to work with the FB schools. ND may or may not be in that mix. My guess is not.
 

dollarbill44

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As far as the argument that people fail to see the alliance between the football schools and bball schools, well the answer is simple imo, Kansas!!
Kansas is the Syracuse of the Big XII, they need a strong bball conference and Conference USA isn't the answer and no other league is looking to add Kansas. So the dominos start with Kansas and Kansas St will follow. If that happen, Baylor and Iowa State have no other options, why would they want to go to a non AQ league like Conference USA? The glue here is the Big East bball schools, the Big XII has nothing holding it together!

I guess my point is that there is no logical connection between the football and hoops lists up there except that they all need a conference. Why on earth does Kansas need to affiliate themselves with the BE hoops only teams when there will be other schools out there that are just as good (with exception of Nova), but closer in proximity?

There has to be something more than loneliness to hold a conference together.
 

Noexcuse

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Just off the top of my head SU's traditional football rivaries (excluding schools like Cornell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Fordham, Army and Navy) are Penn State - not going to move from the B1G, West Virginia, Pitt, BC and Maryland (maybe Rutgers too). The move to the ACC gives us renewals with all of our traditional rivalries except Penn State and WV. Hopefully WV gets an invite or we can maintain a relationship with them in football. Would hate to see the Schwartzwalder Trophy go by the boards.
 

Shermthegeneral

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The Big East as a football conference is dead. Two or more of WVU, UConn, Buttgers and L'Ville will be gone. The hangers on will be forced to align with whomever is left from Kansas, KSU, Iowa State, Baylor, UCF, et al. The BBall onlies will not want to tie their fortunes to yet another amalgam of football wannabees, and will finally return to the original BBall charter. SJU, GTown, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, Marquette, DePaul, will add UMass, Xavier and someone like St. Joes, etc. and retool a solid BBall conference, without the headaches that have come from the need to work with the FB schools. ND may or may not be in that mix. My guess is not.

My whole thought process was based on USF, Cinci, Lville, TCU being part of the conference and not having a home. I guess the 4 of them could leave the Big East and join Kansas, K State, Iowa State, and Baylor and keep the Big XII AQ but that would be a huge hit for the new Big East and it's in their best interest to keep the football schools. I also feel like Lville is in the same boat as Kansas, bball drives the bus and being aligned with Kansas and a bunch left overs of the Big XII isn't really as appealing to them as staying with bball only schools.
 

Noexcuse

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There may be schools that end up downgrading football when all is said and done, which was a real concern for SU at least in discussions on this board.
 

SWC75

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It's dead by a short shot, at elast as a football conference.
 

All4SU

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My whole thought process was based on USF, Cinci, Lville, TCU being part of the conference and not having a home. I guess the 4 of them could leave the Big East and join Kansas, K State, Iowa State, and Baylor and keep the Big XII AQ but that would be a huge hit for the new Big East and it's in their best interest to keep the football schools. I also feel like Lville is in the same boat as Kansas, bball drives the bus and being aligned with Kansas and a bunch left overs of the Big XII isn't really as appealing to them as staying with bball only schools.

Louisville (KY), Cincy (OH), USF (FLA), and TCU (TX) could do a lot worse than to align themselves for all sports with Kansas, Iowa State, Kansas State and Baylor. Throw in a Boise State, and you have a Heartland Conference, which while it may be left out of the Superconference discussion for now, is not that far removed from that kind of status.
 

Timonen

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it is pretty far removed, actually. the reason all of them went to or desire to be in the Big East (or better) in the first place is the TV contract and revenue associated. they're all getting a big demotion.
 

Eric15

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Kansas and Syracuse are a "push" ??? Are you serious? Maybe if you go by the previous 5 years... but if we're talking 20, 30, 50 or 100 years, it's NOT EVEN CLOSE. Hoops yes, football no, no, no.

With all due respect to Wilmeth Sidat-Singh, is SU's on-the-field performance way back then really relevant to conference realignment today? Wouldn't the past 5-10 years be the appropriate time period for comparison's sake?
 

cuseincincy

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You are right. of course some may argue that an ACC divisioon consisting of:
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Miami
Virginia Tech
Boston College
Uconn
WVU or Rutgers
Maryland

Is a lot closer to the actual Big East than those remaining in the league. I would be shocked if the basketball onlies don't break away and maybe grab a couple teams from the A-10 like Xavier, St Joe's, Dayton etc. That could be a great basketball conference that would rival any "BCS" conference. UC, Louisville & USF may be forced into a conference with KU, K State, Baylor, UCF etc. Not sure where that would stand but it would be better than a CUSA or Mountain west
 

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