The Downside - Clemson I

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sugrad68

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#26
Plenty of effort from Oshae — he fought for boards, worked on defense. Did not make his shots, had more turn-overs than we want. Not for lack of effort.
Oshae did not have his head in the game at the beginning. 2 quick turnovers and JB had his butt on the bench. Great move. When Oshae returned to the game his play was much improved. Certainly not one of his better games but we need him on the court.
 

bballbeadle

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#27
Oshae did not have his head in the game at the beginning. 2 quick turnovers and JB had his butt on the bench. Great move. When Oshae returned to the game his play was much improved. Certainly not one of his better games but we need him on the court.
Boeheim said as much on his radio show last night.
 

SoBristol

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#28
Oshae did not have his head in the game at the beginning. 2 quick turnovers and JB had his butt on the bench. Great move. When Oshae returned to the game his play was much improved. Certainly not one of his better games but we need him on the court.
I agree - he is needed. My point is that “lack of effort” or “head not in game” may not be the issue. He missed badly on four shots from deep - it happened to Tyus as well, who was 0 for 6. Oshae was missing long - too much energy? Oshae tried to drive and got stripped (turn-over). Could be too much excitement/effort and JB needed him to calm down, restart, and not drive into traffic or try to be the hero from deep.
 
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#29
He takes kids out when they lead gets in the 20's. When they play good teams in conference like UVA go look at the minutes for RJ/Zion/Cam
There is a view that says, "If you go out and blow teams away, your better players do not need
to play big minutes. When you insist on deathmatches against teams that you should own (cough,
Cornell, Gtown), your best players will play a ton, and there's no real opportunity for "game
development" for the bench.

My downside from this game; you hold Clemson 22 pts below their average, and you win by 8, scoring
only 61? What happens when you hit teams you're not going to hold to the 50s?

Kev
 
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#30
The kid and his dad were AWOL yesterday, undoubtedly due to the snow. I was rather wondering, with no Chukwu to kick around, where would he aim his fire next?

The “fans in the stands” I was referring to were 3 people. I - ahem! - tend to exaggerate a little.
So who did they complain about. I'm going to guess Frank Howard. When he air balled that 3 in the 1st half they probably went nuts.
 

tbonezone

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#31
clemson totally spazzed when they could have easily closed the lead to 3. that was our break.
 

Sherman20

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#32
Went from a team that some people thought was 11 deep and going to run 40 minutes of he11 full court press defense, to playing only 1 sub more than 5 minutes and only 3 total against a team that is going to finish in the bottom half of the ACC standings. :(

I'm not saying that to suggest JB should have used a different rotation last night, more to point out that the annual proclamation regarding our extreme depth is almost always wrong.
Ugh, so much wrong here. First of all, Clemson will be a mid-pack ACC team and likely make the tourney. Their efficiency numbers are good, not far behind ours. Second, nobody said we’d play 11 guys! Most thought we’d be playing 8 guys regular minutes by the time conference play rolls around, and that’s been the case. Carey will play more minutes going forward, especially in games that we can take a chance with him as a high risk freshman with a high reward upside. JB doesn’t want to take chances in the early going. He knows we really need to try and get to 5-1 in conference and get the team improving and playing more confidently and then as Carey gets more experience against good teams, he’ll get more playing time. Also, Frank needs to play as much as possible because he’s still shaking off the rust. And he needs game time minutes to really do that. We will continue to play 8 guys going forward (with an occasional 9th in Buddy).
 

tbonezone

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#33
when you say we play 8 who spells battle. who spells brissett ? who spells hughes ? or do they play 40 ?
 

Cuseball

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#35
Marek spells Brissett. Carey spells Battle.
exactly and Battle slides to the SF spot and gives Hughes a few or Oshae a few. There is no need for more than 8 players. This is what is very nice about players having versatility. Marek can, and does, play any spot on the front line. Oshae can play either forward spot. Battle can slide to SF. Howard and Carey can play either back court position. 8 is more than fine with the ability to go deeper should anyone get injured or foul trouble.
Cuse!
 

tbonezone

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#36
i thought marek was the starting 5 ? and carey split some time with howard ? that 8 means 3 post , 2 point guards 3 40 minute guys with a sprinkle of BB.
 

SWC75

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#39
I think Chukwu, Sidibe and Dolezaj will all see time at center. Dolezaj, Birssett and Hughes will see time at forward. Battle, Howard and Carey will see time at guard. That's 8 guys. Boeheim and Braswell will only play in blow-outs. Washington will re-hab.

8 guys is plenty of depth, especially if some guys can play more than one position.
 

sugrad68

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#40
Duke is #1. Virginia is #4. They play 8 guys. Michigan is #2. They play 7 guys. 8 is enough as long as the team as 1 replacement at each position. The zone slows the game down and does not require the defenders running around after a single player.
 

tbonezone

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#42
duke minute leader averages 31. virginia 33. michigan 32. syracuse has 3 players over 33.
you do understand the difference between playing x number of guys and player rotation ?
you can play any number of guys but if 3 dudes never leave the floor that's not rotation is it ?
 

OrangeDW

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#43
duke minute leader averages 31. virginia 33. michigan 32. syracuse has 3 players over 33.
you do understand the difference between playing x number of guys and player rotation ?
you can play any number of guys but if 3 dudes never leave the floor that's not rotation is it ?
So what? Duke’s been winning games by 20-30 points.

When they had a tight game with Gonzaga, Barrett and Jones played 39 and Zion played 37.

Guess they would’ve won that one if they played their worse players more minutes?
 

br801

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#44
duke minute leader averages 31. virginia 33. michigan 32. syracuse has 3 players over 33.
you do understand the difference between playing x number of guys and player rotation ?
you can play any number of guys but if 3 dudes never leave the floor that's not rotation is it ?
So now 33-35 minutes means never leaving the floor?
 

tbonezone

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#45
as i stated last week CUSE has 3 of the top 12 in league minutes played. and if history is any indication we will no doubt ONCE AGAIN have 3 of the top 20 NATIONALLY. care to guess their names ?
 

pfister1

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#46
duke minute leader averages 31. virginia 33. michigan 32. syracuse has 3 players over 33.
you do understand the difference between playing x number of guys and player rotation ?
you can play any number of guys but if 3 dudes never leave the floor that's not rotation is it ?

Another way to make the point might be; if we had an injury or foul trouble to Battle, Howard or OB do we have depth that will allow us to put together a cohesive (not same competitive level) lineup and still have a sub for those positions. Almost all of our depth at the 1-3 positions comes from one player (Carey), I guess that changes a little bit if MD's development over the last couple of games continues such that we can play with both MD and one of the centers on the court at the same time as we did against Clemson. There have been points in the season where playing two of MD, BS and PC is like playing 3-1/2 v. 5 on offense. In those games you could do it to plug a hole and ensure you have 5 guys on the court, but it wasn't pretty. Again, the MD that we saw against Clemson and at times throughout the season resolves the issue to a point.

I guess there are two potentially distinct issues. Does the depth/rotation allow you to (i) keep everyone fresh and (ii) have reasonable lineup alternatives in the event of injury/foul difficulty.

.
 
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SWC75

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#47
as i stated last week CUSE has 3 of the top 12 in league minutes played. and if history is any indication we will no doubt ONCE AGAIN have 3 of the top 20 NATIONALLY. care to guess their names ?

I would think that with TV time outs, halftime, ref video reviews, etc, playing 33-35 minutes is not too much of a strain for your best players. The problem last year was that our best players were playing 40 minutes a game. And even then, we played our best ball at the end of the season.
 

tbonezone

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#48
I would think that with TV time outs, halftime, ref video reviews, etc, playing 33-35 minutes is not too much of a strain for your best players. The problem last year was that our best players were playing 40 minutes a game. And even then, we played our best ball at the end of the season.
and we were BAD last year. were you not listening to the coach ? he made that very clear.
let's see how the minutes fall moving forward. i sincerely hope i'm wrong.
 
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