The failures of great coaches/managers | Syracusefan.com

The failures of great coaches/managers

SU94

Starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
1,922
Like
5,323
First of all, I am still behind S.Shafer. To me, at least one more year, especially if we were to start a Dome renovation soon (and have to play a season on the road, etc.). We do need to see some traction soon, however. But I hope all this new coach talk is a moot point.

That said, I've been thinking about Al Golden's candidacy. The main gripes are that he did not win at Miami and he's a defensive guy. Personally, I think SU having an offensive guy is important, but not imperative. There can be exceptions (Milly!), but I actually tend to agree with you on this end.

For those that cry about Golden's .500 record at Miami, there needs to some level of acknowledgment of the Canes sanctions. It is not a free pass, but it is something that needs to be considered. And explored in an interview process.

Now, my main point is this...

I think SU would be really limiting itself by crossing someone like Golden off their list simply because he did not universally succeed during his career. I value people that are able to critique themselves, make changes and get better. Is Al Golden that type? I am not sure. Again, this is Coyle's job to discern, investigate, etc.

Here is a list of coaches or managers from around the sporting landscape that failed (to some degree) in their their first foray as the man in charge (and yes, I know Golden enjoyed some success at Temple, so this is not an apples to apples comparison) ...

MLB
Bruce Bochy
Joe Torre
Bobby Cox
Terry Francona
Joe Girardi

CFB
Jim Grobe
Hayden Fry
Mike Bellotti
Gene Stallings

NBA
Chuck Daly

NFL
Bill Bellicheck
Marv Levy
Pete Carroll

I am sure there are other examples, but at least 8 of these guys are either in the Hall of Fame or are surely going to get there in the coming years (Bochy, Torre, Cox, Fry, Daly, Bellichick, Levy, Carroll). And they all failed early, reflected and came around in a big way at their subsequent stops.

I am not saying that Al Golden will be on this list someday. Odds are against it. I am just saying to universally cross off anyone with any degree of failure in their past is being way too simplistic. And if there is anything we should avoid in this pursuit of a winning Syracuse program, it is making universal declarations.
 
First of all, I am still behind S.Shafer. To me, at least one more year, especially if we were to start a Dome renovation soon (and have to play a season on the road, etc.). We do need to see some traction soon, however. But I hope all this new coach talk is a moot point.

That said, I've been thinking about Al Golden's candidacy. The main gripes are that he did not win at Miami and he's a defensive guy. Personally, I think SU having an offensive guy is important, but not imperative. There can be exceptions (Milly!), but I actually tend to agree with you on this end.

For those that cry about Golden's .500 record at Miami, there needs to some level of acknowledgment of the Canes sanctions. It is not a free pass, but it is something that needs to be considered. And explored in an interview process.

Now, my main point is this...

I think SU would be really limiting itself by crossing someone like Golden off their list simply because he did not universally succeed during his career. I value people that are able to critique themselves, make changes and get better. Is Al Golden that type? I am not sure. Again, this is Coyle's job to discern, investigate, etc.

Here is a list of coaches or managers from around the sporting landscape that failed (to some degree) in their their first foray as the man in charge (and yes, I know Golden enjoyed some success at Temple, so this is not an apples to apples comparison) ...

MLB
Bruce Bochy
Joe Torre
Bobby Cox
Terry Francona
Joe Girardi

CFB
Jim Grobe
Hayden Fry
Mike Bellotti
Gene Stallings

NBA
Chuck Daly

NFL
Bill Bellicheck
Marv Levy
Pete Carroll

I am sure there are other examples, but at least 8 of these guys are either in the Hall of Fame or are surely going to get there in the coming years (Bochy, Torre, Cox, Fry, Daly, Bellichick, Levy, Carroll). And they all failed early, reflected and came around in a big way at their subsequent stops.

I am not saying that Al Golden will be on this list someday. Odds are against it. I am just saying to universally cross off anyone with any degree of failure in their past is being way too simplistic. And if there is anything we should avoid in this pursuit of a winning Syracuse program, it is making universal declarations.

Please do not list Joe Girardi on this list. 2009 not withstanding he has been below average.
 
Please do not list Joe Girardi on this list. 2009 not withstanding he has been below average.
You're right, Girardi doesn't belong on that list. He was NL manager of the year in 2006 in his one season with the Marlins.
 
You're right, Girardi doesn't belong on that list. He was NL manager of the year in 2006 in his one season with the Marlins.

There's a reason he was fired, and his teams choke down the stretch.
 
First of all, I am still behind S.Shafer. To me, at least one more year, especially if we were to start a Dome renovation soon (and have to play a season on the road, etc.). We do need to see some traction soon, however. But I hope all this new coach talk is a moot point.

That said, I've been thinking about Al Golden's candidacy. The main gripes are that he did not win at Miami and he's a defensive guy. Personally, I think SU having an offensive guy is important, but not imperative. There can be exceptions (Milly!), but I actually tend to agree with you on this end.

For those that cry about Golden's .500 record at Miami, there needs to some level of acknowledgment of the Canes sanctions. It is not a free pass, but it is something that needs to be considered. And explored in an interview process.

Now, my main point is this...

I think SU would be really limiting itself by crossing someone like Golden off their list simply because he did not universally succeed during his career. I value people that are able to critique themselves, make changes and get better. Is Al Golden that type? I am not sure. Again, this is Coyle's job to discern, investigate, etc.

Here is a list of coaches or managers from around the sporting landscape that failed (to some degree) in their their first foray as the man in charge (and yes, I know Golden enjoyed some success at Temple, so this is not an apples to apples comparison) ...

MLB
Bruce Bochy
Joe Torre
Bobby Cox
Terry Francona
Joe Girardi

CFB
Jim Grobe
Hayden Fry
Mike Bellotti
Gene Stallings

NBA
Chuck Daly

NFL
Bill Bellicheck
Marv Levy
Pete Carroll

I am sure there are other examples, but at least 8 of these guys are either in the Hall of Fame or are surely going to get there in the coming years (Bochy, Torre, Cox, Fry, Daly, Bellichick, Levy, Carroll). And they all failed early, reflected and came around in a big way at their subsequent stops.

I am not saying that Al Golden will be on this list someday. Odds are against it. I am just saying to universally cross off anyone with any degree of failure in their past is being way too simplistic. And if there is anything we should avoid in this pursuit of a winning Syracuse program, it is making universal declarations.
i don't know about Carroll. but Belichick and Levy have that one thing in common - gigantic brains and a willingness to adapt. belichick is also a diabolical cheater and the world's luckiest bastard.

if we're going to go that route, i'm gonna need some convincing that the guy is really really smart.
 
i don't know about Carroll. but Belichick and Levy have that one thing in common - gigantic brains and a willingness to adapt. belichick is also a diabolical cheater and the world's luckiest bastard.

if we're going to go that route, i'm gonna need some convincing that the guy is really really smart.

I think that's key. You can have failures in your career but you have to show the ability to recognize what went wrong and the flexibility to adapt and change. Most college football coaches don't seem to have that set of attributes and if they do have it, they haven't tasted much failure in part because there's lots of dummies to beat up on.
 
why dont you provide a list of the coaches who sucked after 3 years and never got a job again.

of course that list is 1000s of people long, so i wont expect it till right before the kick.

then we can discuss it all game long...
 
i don't know about Carroll. but Belichick and Levy have that one thing in common - gigantic brains and a willingness to adapt. belichick is also a diabolical cheater and the world's luckiest bastard.

if we're going to go that route, i'm gonna need some convincing that the guy is really really smart.

And that he's willing to cheat like a mofo.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
170,457
Messages
4,891,986
Members
5,998
Latest member
powdersmack

Online statistics

Members online
215
Guests online
2,216
Total visitors
2,431


...
Top Bottom