The Frank Howard Roller Coaster Ride

[Jake]

Yeah, just after halfcourt too. Make a guy pay and get downhill. Don’t stall. Really think it is a footspeed issue as much as the handle. He could be driving these dudes into some nasty screens too making them pay for their aggresiveness but instead he plods up with the ball and dangles it in front. Very lucky he hasn’t been stripped more often.

Chukwu set one solid screen for Frank at midcourt. Nearly killed #4 for Buffalo. Heard it in the third deck.

 

[Cusefan0307]

FWIW it’s very interesting to me that his stats on Kenpom are nearly identical to MCW in 2013.

 

[OrangeOnions]

FH’s play make me long for the days of Michael Edwards.

 

[DoctorBombay]

FWIW it’s very interesting to me that his stats on Kenpom are nearly identical to MCW in 2013.

Exactly...so one has to wonder why we continue to have the perpetual, in-depth “FH negatives” rehash after every game.
We get it, he has limitations. Annnnnnnnnd...????? JMHO

 

[Cusefan0307]

Exactly...so one has to wonder why we continue to have the perpetual, in-depth “FH negatives” rehash after every game.
We get it, he has limitations. Annnnnnnnnd...????? JMHO

MCW had a high dribble and turned it over a ton too.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Chukwu set one solid screen for Frank at midcourt. Nearly killed #4 for Buffalo. Heard it in the third deck.

Barely saw that with the poor angle on the stream but I remember it.

 

[hungrychuck]

FWIW it’s very interesting to me that his stats on Kenpom are nearly identical to MCW in 2013.

MCW at what point in the season?

 

[JDubbin]

Here’s an interesting stat... before tonight Frank averaged .3 more turnovers a game then Trae Young. Tonight Trae had 4 (in six less minutes) and Frank had 5. Nobody, nobody thinks that Frank is as good as Trae of course, but the reality is ball handlers turn the ball over, it happens... no matter how uniquely skilled and talented. Frank pretty regularly gets raked across the coals for his TO’s, but his numbers are not an outrageous outlier or something

 

[Dinkyspond]

JB called him and Tyus "all-league" guards in his presser. Obviously, it is confidence thing with Frank and JB is trying to build up his confidence. Teams are seeing his shaky handle and getting in his grill. JB knows he needs to do positive reinforcement with Frank because he's basically our only option there. H. Washington is a 5-minute guy at best.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Here’s an interesting stat... before tonight Frank averaged .3 more turnovers a game then Trae Young. Tonight Trae had 4 (in six less minutes) and Frank had 5. Nobody, nobody thinks that Frank is as good as Trae of course, but the reality is ball handlers turn the ball over, it happens... no matter how uniquely skilled and talented. Frank pretty regularly gets raked across the coals for his TO’s, but his numbers are not an outrageous outlier or something

I hear what are you saying but Frank is a junior. Disagree about him and those TOs. It’s mostly just too loosey-goosey with the ball, IMO. Obviously, he overcame some bad play in this game and other ones. Last year he would’ve folded. Big props. It will be a roller-coaster.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Here’s an interesting stat... before tonight Frank averaged .3 more turnovers a game then Trae Young. Tonight Trae had 4 (in six less minutes) and Frank had 5. Nobody, nobody thinks that Frank is as good as Trae of course, but the reality is ball handlers turn the ball over, it happens... no matter how uniquely skilled and talented. Frank pretty regularly gets raked across the coals for his TO’s, but his numbers are not an outrageous outlier or something

Didn’t young also have 22 assists tonight.

 

[JDubbin]

Didn’t young also have 22 assists tonight.

Yes totally, that's why I mentioned him as a comparison... he's basically the top player in the country handling and dishing the ball, but he turns it over at basically the same clip as Frank does

 

[SoBeCuse]

MCW had a high dribble and turned it over a ton too.

True. It’s interesting. MCW averaged 3.5 TO/game as the primary ballhandler. Frank has had more time than MCW leading up to this year as the primary ballhandler. Frank is at 4.2 TO/game now and in a stretch of 5.6(!) TO/game since and counting Maryland...6 games.

MCW was more natural at the position and faster, quicker, more explosive. Maybe not by much but he was. Frank the MUCH better shooter. Carter-Williams played downhill more. One thing Frank doesn’t do is that jump in the air then do a 180 and pass backwards for a TO. MCW was good for at least one of those a game it seemed...ugh. Steadier handle than Frank, IMO.

 

[jgeorge322]

Yes totally, that's why I mentioned him as a comparison... he's basically the top player in the country handling and dishing the ball, but he turns it over at basically the same clip as Frank does

Using one game is probably a poor way to make your point. Think frank had 8 or 9 to the game before.

 

[JDubbin]

Using one game is probably a poor way to make your point. Think frank had 8 or 9 to the game before.

Did you read my original post where I listed the .3 difference in turnovers per game between Trae and Frank for the season, or nah?

 

[orangepassion]

There's a reason JB trusts him.

He has no choice?

 

[SoBeCuse]

Did you read my original post where I listed the .3 difference in turnovers per game between Trae and Frank for the season, or nah?

Dude, he’s a freshman and outproducing Frank in all facets of the game. He’s avaeraging something like 29/9/4. Against some very good competition, too. You can live with those TOs. Against Oregon/Wichita St/USC/Arkansas...their four toughest games...he was at 31 assists to 15 turnovers. I cringe thinking about Frank dealing with Wichita St., Oregon, etc.

 

[JDubbin]

Here’s an interesting stat... before tonight Frank averaged .3 more turnovers a game then Trae Young. Tonight Trae had 4 (in six less minutes) and Frank had 5. Nobody, nobody thinks that Frank is as good as Trae of course, but the reality is ball handlers turn the ball over, it happens... no matter how uniquely skilled and talented. Frank pretty regularly gets raked across the coals for his TO’s, but his numbers are not an outrageous outlier or something

Using one game is probably a poor way to make your point. Think frank had 8 or 9 to the game before.

Dude, he’s a freshman and outproducing Frank in all facets of the game. He’s avaeraging something like 29/9/4. Against some very good competition, too. You can live with those TOs. Against Oregon/Wichita St/USC/Arkansas...their four toughest games...he was at 31 assists to 15 turnovers. I cringe thinking about Frank dealing with Wichita St., Oregon, etc.

SoBeCuse can you please read what I've been saying? I agree he's outproducing Frank and is a better player, Trae as a freshman is one of the best player's in the country, agreed? MY POINT is that when we look at turnovers, Frank get's ridiculed hard for something that's not some crazy anomaly. Can he tighten handle some? Sure. Are some of his turnovers lazy instead of attacking-the-basket-aggressive-in-nature types? Sure. This dude jgeorge322 came at me saying I used one game to make a point, which I clearly didn't. So I responded to him... then you took my response to him like a personal attack on you and Trae. It wasn't. I know you're trying to use scenario's which we could never use in real life since they play different teams, but over an entire season Trae and Frank's TO numbers are minimally different, statistically speaking.

 

[jgeorge322]

SoBeCuse can you please read what I've been saying? I agree he's outproducing Frank and is a better player, Trae as a freshman is one of the best player's in the country, agreed? MY POINT is that when we look at turnovers, Frank get's ridiculed hard for something that's not some crazy anomaly. Can he tighten handle some? Sure. Are some of his turnovers lazy instead of attacking-the-basket-aggressive-in-nature types? Sure. This dude jgeorge322 came at me saying I used one game to make a point, which I clearly didn't. So I responded to him... then you took my response to him like a personal attack on you and Trae. It wasn't. I know you're trying to use scenario's which we could never use in real life since they play different teams, but over an entire season Trae and Frank's TO numbers are minimally different, statistically speaking.

I think i meant to respond to someone else’s post. Ill go back later and check.

On another note I wasnt trying to “come at anyone” rather participate in a conversation. Thought i was on an internet fan board but i guess i am mistaken.

 

[JDubbin]

I think i meant to respond to someone else’s post. Ill go back later and check.

On another note I wasnt trying to “come at anyone” rather participate in a conversation. Thought i was on an internet fan board but i guess i am mistaken.

My fault if I misread you, it seemed like you were intentionally trying to discredit my post based on something I wasn't even saying

 

[suttree]

MCW at what point in the season?

Post-Lord & Taylor.

 

[jgeorge322]

My fault if I misread you, it seemed like you were intentionally trying to discredit my post based on something I wasn't even saying

Nah i just misread the first part so i misinterpreted your op. I havent watched trae but i am guessing the difference in perception is frank is a 3 year player and some of frank seems to have a higher percentage of to’s that seem inexcusable, versus maybe forcing a bad pass that has a chance to succeed, but i could be biased.

 

[SoBeCuse]

SoBeCuse can you please read what I've been saying? I agree he's outproducing Frank and is a better player, Trae as a freshman is one of the best player's in the country, agreed? MY POINT is that when we look at turnovers, Frank get's ridiculed hard for something that's not some crazy anomaly. Can he tighten handle some? Sure. Are some of his turnovers lazy instead of attacking-the-basket-aggressive-in-nature types? Sure. This dude jgeorge322 came at me saying I used one game to make a point, which I clearly didn't. So I responded to him... then you took my response to him like a personal attack on you and Trae. It wasn't. I know you're trying to use scenario's which we could never use in real life since they play different teams, but over an entire season Trae and Frank's TO numbers are minimally different, statistically speaking.

I wasn’t really trying to get personal and apologize. But, I mean if you are going to belabor the point that they are minimally different then sure. It is just a stat line. They are worlds apart in terms of volume, production, and how Young is a one man wrecking crew in all facets of the game but, yes, that category would be correct you have illlustrated. I still don’t see the point, really.

 

[kidorange]

Am I the only one that's pleasantly surprised by Frank's play this year? Coming into the season, I wasn't sure he'd even be serviceable but he's proven he is more than just that. We have a much bigger (and taller) problem than him but he gets all the crap.

 

[NYCorange]

Am I the only one that's pleasantly surprised by Frank's play this year? Coming into the season, I wasn't sure he'd even be serviceable but he's proven he is more than just that. We have a much bigger (and taller) problem than him but he gets all the crap.

No no, me too. I mean, admittedly he's not perfect or anything close, but man, I was willing to accept anything better than Kaleb Joseph...