The game’s the game.

[Jake]

Our OC took almost an entire half to figure out that not passing + running Tucker up the gut wasn’t working

It was THREE possessions. THREE. And one of them ended at the opponents 26 yard line. The fourth possession we opened with play action, run,then a pass.

No doubt plan A was to run the ball, and no doubt those three and outs were ugly. But it’s not too much to expect a coaching staff to stick with a game plan for FOUR possessions. There were no negative plays and one drive was productive.

It’s not like we were giving the ball to some schlep either. Adjustments were made and the offense starting clicking.

If you’re game planning our offense based off of on the field performance, would you have taken the ball away from Tucker and let Shrader just grip it and rip it from the get go?

I have absolutely no issues with the game plan, or it’s adjustments. Some particular play calls we’re head scratchers though.

I bet we see a much more balanced offensive game plan now that the OC has seen his QB throw something other than dead quails in a game situation.

coaches will always play to their strengths first.

 

[SWC75]

Once again, you fail to give credit to the adjustment made. You get caught in the same trap as soo many. Play calling... thee most overused, overstated,overemphasized critique in football. I promise you that the only thing you,I or any fan knows about playcalling is ...did it work or not. We’re all geniuses after the play has been run.
Let’s agree to disagree.

I loved the adjustment. we went from zero points in 24 minutes to 30 in 36 minutes. That's a great adjustment. I just don't see why we couldn't start the game - or the next one - that way.

 

[SWC75]

You wanted them to run the offense that they got to later in the game at the beginning of the game? The coaching staff didn't want to put GS in that position in his second start where he could throw an INT or some other such thing and the game could have gotten away from them early. They slowed played it and got the defense focused on the run and then things opened up. The game plan was fine and the Orange would have gotten a good win if it hadn't been for the "extenuating" factors.

The defense was focused on the run when we got off the plane. They could have mixed in Shrader earlier, (they did try two quarterback draws, even though we hadn't established a passing game), and used the roll-outs and play action earlier and it would have been just as effective.

 

[orangeinohio]

It was THREE possessions. THREE. And one of them ended at the opponents 26 yard line. The fourth possession we opened with play action, run,then a pass.

No doubt plan A was to run the ball, and no doubt those three and outs were ugly. But it’s not too much to expect a coaching staff to stick with a game plan for FOUR possessions. There were no negative plays and one drive was productive.

It’s not like we were giving the ball to some schlep either. Adjustments were made and the offense starting clicking.

If you’re game planning our offense based off of on the field performance, would you have taken the ball away from Tucker and let Shrader just grip it and rip it from the get go?

I have absolutely no issues with the game plan, or it’s adjustments. Some particular play calls we’re head scratchers though.

I bet we see a much more balanced offensive game plan now that the OC has seen his QB throw something other than dead quails in a game situation.

coaches will always play to their strengths first.

OK, I agree that on the fourth possession (which started at 11:17 left in the 2nd quarter), the first play was not a run by Sean Tucker. The previous three possessions started with Sean Tucker gaining seven yards on the ground. (The fifth possession, btw, started with a 1 yard run by Tucker.)
In all, the first three possessions featured seven Tucker runs for 18 yards and zero points.
I think Tucker is an incredible runner; quick, great vision, and tough. I'd like to see him make it through this whole season so I don't want to see him running into a stacked DL (one of FSU's biggest strengths). Seeing him run into the wall rather than Gilbert getting creative was extremely disappointing to watch.

I have very limited faith in Gilbert's game plan. I don't think he has shown enough to convince me otherwise. Wasn't there a preseason poll in which ACC coaches anonymously declared SU's offense to essentially be easy to read and defend?

And I don't agree with Babers constantly talking about young players on offense as if they're children who still have so much to learn. I don't know if he's expecting perfection or if he's a bad teacher but he needs to put more faith in younger players. This is partly how Taj Harris maintained his unchallenged #1 WR status for so long.

When I wrote the post that you're responding to, I was thinking of the sixth possession where everything opened up. 1st play - pass to Alford for 12. Next play, FSU is worried about passing plays and Tucker gains 10 rushing yards. Next play, pass to Alford for 17, followed up by two more rushes by Shrader for a total of 21 yards and a TD.
That possession started with 4:11 left in the half. It was the first real signs of life from Gilbert.
Yeah I know Shrader ran for 55 yards and a TD in the fifth possession but I don't think Gilbert's call was a QB run for 55 yards. It's great that it worked but it wasn't planned to result in 55 yards of rushing.

We have possibly the top RB in the conference. He's not the only offensive weapon. Get a little creative and keep the defense on their heels. I know there are times that your RB needs to fight for yards and plow into big uglies. And I know that we can't expect every possession to look like the sixth. But it sure as hell took a long time to try something different.

I think that in the remaining games, the offense will look more like the second part of the game than the first, which gives me hope.

 

[CousCuse]

The defense was focused on the run when we got off the plane. They could have mixed in Shrader earlier, (they did try two quarterback draws, even though we hadn't established a passing game), and used the roll-outs and play action earlier and it would have been just as effective.

When a team commits to the run, it isn't just theory. You put your oline out there and they engage the dline and start figuring out how each guy blocks, his technique and propensities, the coaches then make adjustments. You figure out which guy can win his matchup and the running back is seeing where the holes are or aren't. And if you can get some 3 or 4 yard runs against a stacked defense, it really establishes that they are going to have to keep more of their assets there and leaves wholes and tough one on one assignments for the rest of the defense.

 

[SWC75]

When a team commits to the run, it isn't just theory. You put your oline out there and they engage the dline and start figuring out how each guy blocks, his technique and propensities, the coaches then make adjustments. You figure out which guy can win his matchup and the running back is seeing where the holes are or aren't. And if you can get some 3 or 4 yard runs against a stacked defense, it really establishes that they are going to have to keep more of their assets there and leaves wholes and tough one on one assignments for the rest of the defense.

And the 32 carries against Liberty were not just a theory. As Orangeinohio pointed out, in those first three possessions, Tucker ran 7 times for 18 yards and we got no points. That's not 3-4 yard runs against a stacked defense. How many teams wait until midway through the second quarter to open up their offense against an 0-4 team?

 

[CousCuse]

And the 32 carries against Liberty were not just a theory. As Orangeinohio pointed out, in those first three possessions, Tucker ran 7 times for 18 yards and we got no points. That's not 3-4 yard runs against a stacked defense. How many teams wait until midway through the second quarter to open up their offense against an 0-4 team?

I don't know, but they scored 30 and would have had more if not for some bad officiating. That seems strong in GS's second start.

 

[SWC75]

I don't know, but they scored 30 and would have had more if not for some bad officiating. That seems strong in GS's second start.

They scored 30 points in 36 minutes with their whole offense after scoring 0 in 24 minutes with three yards and a cloud of dust.

 

[CousCuse]

They scored 30 points in 36 minutes with their whole offense after scoring 0 in 24 minutes with three yards and a cloud of dust.

It's like a boxing match where the first few rounds are an assortment of jabs while probing the opponents weaknesses.

 

[PhatOrange]

It was THREE possessions. THREE. And one of them ended at the opponents 26 yard line. The fourth possession we opened with play action, run,then a pass.

No doubt plan A was to run the ball, and no doubt those three and outs were ugly. But it’s not too much to expect a coaching staff to stick with a game plan for FOUR possessions. There were no negative plays and one drive was productive.

It’s not like we were giving the ball to some schlep either. Adjustments were made and the offense starting clicking.

If you’re game planning our offense based off of on the field performance, would you have taken the ball away from Tucker and let Shrader just grip it and rip it from the get go?

I have absolutely no issues with the game plan, or it’s adjustments. Some particular play calls we’re head scratchers though.

I bet we see a much more balanced offensive game plan now that the OC has seen his QB throw something other than dead quails in a game situation.

coaches will always play to their strengths first.

Solid post. Thanks.

 

[Jake]

They scored 30 points in 36 minutes with their whole offense after scoring 0 in 24 minutes with three yards and a cloud of dust.

Everyone blames the offensive coordinator, I get it. But the play call is only part of the equation. Execution is another big part.

did the QB miss a pre-snap read? Did he miss a live read? Should he have audibled out of a run play because the box was stacked?
did the online whiff on a block?

it’s so easy to say, well that didn’t work and blame the only part of the play that you understand (the play call), without knowing why it failed?

If a pattern developes over a season, then it’s more fair to criticize. But you have to give Gilbert a bit more slack here. He’s installed essentially two different offenses for two nearly polar opposite skill sets.