The Genius of JB . . .

[JOC44]

The kerfluffle with UConn and its APR score reminds us of the genius of JB.

People complain about the short bench and the zone (which conserves energy for a 7-man rotation), but JB was the only coach in America with the foresight to prepare for the new rules about academic performance. What other team plays so few players that it can afford to use a couple of scholarships just for smart kids without any regard to their basketball playing ability? I'm dying to see him gives scholarships to two 5'6" fat kids with horned-rim glasses who sit on the bench and read physics textbooks during games.

 

[SkanSU]

There ya go ... see Calhoun should have thought of that as opposed to "encouraging "kids" to leaveso that he could open up schollies for better players. Maybe they should think about actually hiring tutors - afterall they are a big state school with a lot of money - as they claim. Find a way to make appropriate corrections so that the APR doesn't fall below 930 ... tutors, requiring kids to go to class ... stupid things like that.

 

[jordoo]

The kerfluffle with UConn and its APR score reminds us of the genius of JB.

People complain about the short bench and the zone (which conserves energy for a 7-man rotation), but JB was the only coach in America with the foresight to prepare for the new rules about academic performance. What other team plays so few players that it can afford to use a couple of scholarships just for smart kids without any regard to their basketball playing ability? I'm dying to see him gives scholarships to two 5'6" fat kids with horned-rim glasses who sit on the bench and read physics textbooks during games.

LOL

 

[EastCoast2]

Is it graduation rate, academic standing, GPA, all the above? If Jonny Flynn leaves after 2 years, never graduates, but has a 3.6 GPA, does it hurt SU? I know If Greene left after frosh season with a 1.2 (not true, making this up), it would hurt our rating. But, do players going pro adversely affect the APR?

 

[Knicks411]

It all has to do with the standing the kids are in when they leave school. If you leave after your freshmen year, but you're goingt o class, passing, it's fine.

And wasn't our APR below the limit last year? We were at a 912 in 2010. So it's nice to laugh at UConn, but it's not like this couldn;t be us.

 

[SkanSU]

It all has to do with the standing the kids are in when they leave school. If you leave after your freshmen year, but you're goingt o class, passing, it's fine.

And wasn't our APR below the limit last year? We were at a 912 in 2010. So it's nice to laugh at UConn, but it's not like this couldn;t be us.

Actually I believe it was the year right after Devo, Flynn, and Harris left. Its not going pro and leaving early that negatively impacts the APR. In fact is a kid has a 4.0 overall and is on graduation course and leaves that actually helps our APR.

However, if they decide to go pro and consequently stop going to classes therefore failing everything and dropping their GPA that does negatively impact the APR.

As far as the second part goes ... at present our rolling APR is sitting at 928 ... we have 2 points to go before the May 2013 reporting period or we may be sitting out the 2014 tourny ... correct me if I am wrong.

 

[reedny]

Is it graduation rate, academic standing, GPA, all the above? If Jonny Flynn leaves after 2 years, never graduates, but has a 3.6 GPA, does it hurt SU? I know If Greene left after frosh season with a 1.2 (not true, making this up), it would hurt our rating. But, do players going pro adversely affect the APR?

The definitions don't talk about GPA, only whether students are: 1) "academically eligible"; and 2) "remain with the institution" (i.e., stay in school). One point is awarded for each. The APR is the total points awarded each term for all the scholarship students in the program, divided by the total points possible.

Here's the language (this hasn't been updated to the new 930 requirement):

• Academic Progress Rate (APR). The APR is the fulcrum upon which the entire academic-reform structure rests. Developed as a more real-time assessment of teams' academic performance than the six-year graduation-rate calculation provides, the APR awards two points each term to student-athletes who meet academic-eligibility standards and who remain with the institution. A team's APR is the total points earned by the team at a given time divided by the total points possible.
• 925. This is the cut score the Division I Board of Directors approved for immediate (or contemporaneous) penalties. APR scores have already become meaningful numbers to the NCAA membership and general public. Based on prior data, an APR score of 925 (out of 1,000) translates to an approximate 60 percent Graduation Success Rate.
• 900. This is the cut score for historical penalties. This benchmark of 900 APR translates to an approximate 45 percent Graduation Success Rate.
• 0-for-2. Under the APR calculation, an "0-for-2" student-athlete is one who is neither academically eligible nor remains with the institution. An 0-for-2 player might be one who transfers, leaves the institution for personal reasons or leaves to turn pro and would not have been academically eligible had he or she returned. Obviously, these are the types of situations the academic-reform structure is most meant to address, since they are the most damaging to a team's APR. While teams cannot always control the reasons student-athletes leave, the immediate (or contemporaneous) penalty holds them accountable for at least making sure student-athletes are academically eligible during their college tenures.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Academics and Athletes/Education and Research/Academic Reform/General Information/defining_academic_reform.html

 

[EastCoast2]

The definitions don't talk about GPA, only whether students are: 1) "academically eligible"; and 2) "remain with the institution" (i.e., stay in school). One point is awarded for each. The APR is the total points awarded for all the scholarship students in the program, divided by the total points possible.

Here's the language (this hasn't been updated to the new 930 requirement):

• Academic Progress Rate (APR). The APR is the fulcrum upon which the entire academic-reform structure rests. Developed as a more real-time assessment of teams' academic performance than the six-year graduation-rate calculation provides, the APR awards two points each term to student-athletes who meet academic-eligibility standards and who remain with the institution. A team's APR is the total points earned by the team at a given time divided by the total points possible.
• 925. This is the cut score the Division I Board of Directors approved for immediate (or contemporaneous) penalties. APR scores have already become meaningful numbers to the NCAA membership and general public. Based on prior data, an APR score of 925 (out of 1,000) translates to an approximate 60 percent Graduation Success Rate.
• 900. This is the cut score for historical penalties. This benchmark of 900 APR translates to an approximate 45 percent Graduation Success Rate.
• 0-for-2. Under the APR calculation, an "0-for-2" student-athlete is one who is neither academically eligible nor remains with the institution. An 0-for-2 player might be one who transfers, leaves the institution for personal reasons or leaves to turn pro and would not have been academically eligible had he or she returned. Obviously, these are the types of situations the academic-reform structure is most meant to address, since they are the most damaging to a team's APR. While teams cannot always control the reasons student-athletes leave, the immediate (or contemporaneous) penalty holds them accountable for at least making sure student-athletes are academically eligible during their college tenures.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Academics and Athletes/Education and Research/Academic Reform/General Information/defining_academic_reform.html

thanks for info

 

[SkanSU]

0-for-2. Under the APR calculation, an "0-for-2" student-athlete is one who is neither academically eligible nor remains with the institution. An 0-for-2 player might be one who transfers, leaves the institution for personal reasons or leaves to turn pro and would not have been academically eligible had he or she returned. Obviously, these are the types of situations the academic-reform structure is most meant to address, since they are the most damaging to a team's APR. While teams cannot always control the reasons student-athletes leave, the immediate (or contemporaneous) penalty holds them accountable for at least making sure student-athletes are academically eligible during their college tenures.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Academics and Athletes/Education and Research/Academic Reform/General Information/defining_academic_reform.html

This is the bingo. While the GPA doesn't count toward the APR it does count relative to making that individual eligible to return. So if a player leaves and as a result they simply go and not follow through on their semester responsibilities their GPA would fall below the requisites alllowing them to be academically eligible should they return.

 

[Knicks411]

Actually I believe it was the year right after Devo, Flynn, and Harris left. Its not going pro and leaving early that negatively impacts the APR. In fact is a kid has a 4.0 overall and is on graduation course and leaves that actually helps our APR.

However, if they decide to go pro and consequently stop going to classes therefore failing everything and dropping their GPA that does negatively impact the APR.

As far as the second part goes ... at present our rolling APR is sitting at 928 ... we have 2 points to go before the May 2013 reporting period or we may be sitting out the 2014 tourny ... correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, it was after the year they left, but everything comes out a year later. Little confusing. So the 2010 numbers were based on 2009, which was when Flynn, Eric, and Paul left.

As for our rolling APR, I believe the standard is either a 900 over 4 years, or a 930 over 2 years. The 928 you reference I believe is our 4 year total, which leaves us well clear of the 900 standard.

NCAA doesn't seem to have all the yearly APR totals, but the worst our 4 year total ever has been was 912, the year Jonny, Eric, and Paul left. That's part of our current 2 year score, (like I said, everything comes out a year later).

So our last 2 years are 865 and 1000, averaging out to a 932.5. For the 2 year, obviously that 865 is coming off the books in May of 2012 (which will encompass the 2010 and 2011 seasons), so our score is likely to shoot way way up.

The current 4 year score includes the 2007-2010 seasons. NCAA only has yealrly totals, but i can somewhat back into them.

Our 2 year average for 2007 and 2008 was 923.5. So let's just assume we had these scores
2007: 923.5
2008: 923.5
2009: 865
2010: 1000 (We know the 2009 and 2010 scores for sure).

So we're sitting on the 4 year average at 928 (28 points clear of the cut-off for that period) and 932.5 for 2 years (2.5 year points clear of the 2 year cut-off. And to be clear, you only need to beat ONE of the standards as I read it).

This doesn't come into play until the 2013 tournament, which is based off the 2012 numbers, which ends with the 2011 school year (confused yet?)

So our 2 year number will be the 2010 number, which we know to be 1000, the number we'll get in May of 2012. 2 year we need a 930, the 1,000 puts us in pretty good shape. We'd need to only beat an 860 to get the 930 2 year score; we got an 865 the year the three guys left, and as far as I know we had no issues last year; we brought everyone back and I haven't heard anything.

Our 4 year will struggle a bit as long as w ehave that 865, but the number you need to clear is only 900, which we've never really been close to.

Edit: So in conclusion, I guess this really couldn't be us. We should be fine.

 

[EastCoast2]

Did the Morris twins leave KU in good academic standing?

 

[Knicks411]

Did the Morris twins leave KU in good academic standing?

No idea, but Kansas has great scores. 1000 the last 3 years.

 

[EastCoast2]

No idea, but Kansas has great scores. 1000 the last 3 years.

Ah. I'm just curious because I feel like the twins and Selby left in bad standing, maybe I'm wrong. I remember when Orton left UK suddenly and that was a big deal because he wasn't in good standing or something.

 

[Knicks411]

Ah. I'm just curious because I feel like the twins and Selby left in bad standing, maybe I'm wrong. I remember when Orton left UK suddenly and that was a big deal because he wasn't in good standing or something.

It definitely could be the case, but that info won't come out till next year, and the other scores are so strong it shouldn't drag them down.

 

[longtimefan]

No idea, but Kansas has great scores. 1000 the last 3 years.

Including Selby, a borderline qualifier coming out of high school, who went off to work out for the scouts in the middle of the second semester. Go figure.

 

[RF2044]

The definitions don't talk about GPA, only whether students are: 1) "academically eligible"; and 2) "remain with the institution" (i.e., stay in school). One point is awarded for each. The APR is the total points awarded each term for all the scholarship students in the program, divided by the total points possible.

Here's the language (this hasn't been updated to the new 930 requirement):

• Academic Progress Rate (APR). The APR is the fulcrum upon which the entire academic-reform structure rests. Developed as a more real-time assessment of teams' academic performance than the six-year graduation-rate calculation provides, the APR awards two points each term to student-athletes who meet academic-eligibility standards and who remain with the institution. A team's APR is the total points earned by the team at a given time divided by the total points possible.
• 925. This is the cut score the Division I Board of Directors approved for immediate (or contemporaneous) penalties. APR scores have already become meaningful numbers to the NCAA membership and general public. Based on prior data, an APR score of 925 (out of 1,000) translates to an approximate 60 percent Graduation Success Rate.
• 900. This is the cut score for historical penalties. This benchmark of 900 APR translates to an approximate 45 percent Graduation Success Rate.
• 0-for-2. Under the APR calculation, an "0-for-2" student-athlete is one who is neither academically eligible nor remains with the institution. An 0-for-2 player might be one who transfers, leaves the institution for personal reasons or leaves to turn pro and would not have been academically eligible had he or she returned. Obviously, these are the types of situations the academic-reform structure is most meant to address, since they are the most damaging to a team's APR. While teams cannot always control the reasons student-athletes leave, the immediate (or contemporaneous) penalty holds them accountable for at least making sure student-athletes are academically eligible during their college tenures.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Academics and Athletes/Education and Research/Academic Reform/General Information/defining_academic_reform.html

Good info. ReedNY--thanks!

 

[Knicks411]

Including Selby, a borderline qualifier coming out of high school, who went off to work out for the scouts in the middle of the second semester. Go figure.

No. The scores for last year won't come out until May 2012. Hasn't been factored in yet.