The More I Think About it, Lester is THE Problem

[Finwad32]

i'm still waiting for the matchup where we need brisley estime in the box blocking or a wr taking a handoff going backwards

let's stop pretending that we do the same stuff most teams do

Nice picking and choosing on what to slide in there.

Never said I agreed with the match-ups they're choosing because I don't know what they're choosing and why on a weekly basis. Doesn't mean they're wrong either.

But, if you can't see that we run the same pass concepts that other teams do, than I'm sorry, it's pretty standard stuff.

You preach Air Raid and Mike Leach, you specifically made a point to talk about how nobody would acknowledge his success a couple weeks ago. What you didn't say was that in his first full 3 seasons with Wazzu he won 3, 6 and 3 games. Huh, HCSS is actually better at this point. He's starting to have success now in year 4. What's the difference? Where they started? Because Mike Leach looked good by scoring 40 points and losing? Does it matter if the score's 23-20 or 47-42?

 

[TheCusian]

those are pretty big differences. if defenses are confused, i'd hate to see how bad they get once they get used to it

You missed the point. The HB position is RB#2 and WR#3 in this system.

A half yard difference for RB? Not a big deal. If you have both in the backfield and both are avg 4.5-5 yds - that puts stress on the defense.

A slot WR who avg the same amount of TD and 4 yds less than your outside guys isn't that big of a difference.

Now that guy can line up either place, advantage offense.

And finally 29% of the time it goes to the HB. The other 71% it's going to the guys who are avg more yards.

The problem is largely plays per game, as it has been all year. That and youth. You don't like the system, but the system is not as dysfunctional as you make it out to be.

Side note: we scored again using a two minute drill. Can we please go faster.

 

[Millhouse]

Nice picking and choosing on what to slide in there.

Never said I agreed with the match-ups they're choosing because I don't know what they're choosing and why on a weekly basis. Doesn't mean they're wrong either.

But, if you can't see that we run the same pass concepts that other teams do, than I'm sorry, it's pretty standard stuff.

You preach Air Raid and Mike Leach, you specifically made a point to talk about how nobody would acknowledge his success a couple weeks ago. What you didn't say was that in his first full 3 seasons with Wazzu he won 3, 6 and 3 games. Huh, HCSS is actually better at this point. He's starting to have success now in year 4. What's the difference? Where they started? Because Mike Leach looked good by scoring 40 points and losing? Does it matter if the score's 23-20 or 47-42?

how do you think shafer would've done at washington state?

come on now

 

[Millhouse]

The problem is largely plays per game, as it has been all year. That and youth. You don't like the system, but the system is not as dysfunctional as you make it out to be.

dungey is good, the system blows

 

[TheCusian]

how do you think shafer would've done at washington state? come on now

Are you kidding? He coached in the PAC12 and delivered a huge upset vs USC. They'd probably have similar records, but with the strength of the team being D instead of O.

Overvalue O, devalue D - same old Milly

 

[Finwad32]

how do you think shafer would've done at washington state?

come on now

We both know a comparison is impossible. All I'm saying is that there is more than one way to skin a cat and be successful. Or fail for that matter.

You also know, because we've debated in the past, that I think consistency within the coaching staff has value to it. I know that you think making a change sooner could be more beneficial.

 

[TheCusian]

dungey is good, the system blows

Too easy.

Dungey is good - but good luck deciphering between what he does and what the system does. They are linked until he plays in a different system.

 

[orangenirvana]

Cant remember the last time we had to rely so much on young players. Veteran players have not pan out. Hunt is out for the season, Morris DMC, Cornelius are 4 year players who have not produce so we now have to rely on freshmans and sophomores to consistently make the plays. They are doing what they can but next year we will see them consistently make plays. Not ready to say its Lester

I feel like every year under Shafer we're having to depend on freshmen. Does that tell us anything? Are players progressing the way they should under this coaching staff?

 

[Millhouse]

Are you kidding? He coached in the PAC12 and delivered a huge upset vs USC. They'd probably have similar records, but with the strength of the team being D instead of O.

Overvalue O, devalue D - same old Milly

cherry picking alert!

he was a defensive coordinator at stanford and they went 4-8. stanford is a better football program than washington state to put it mildly.

leach's winning % at WSU might be better than Shafer's here by sunday and leach inherited a much bigger sh!tshow

 

[Millhouse]

We both know a comparison is impossible. All I'm saying is that there is more than one way to skin a cat and be successful. Or fail for that matter.

You also know, because we've debated in the past, that I think consistency within the coaching staff has value to it. I know that you think making a change sooner could be more beneficial.

shafer is not smart enough. I know it seems like I always say that but that is only because SU keeps hiring people that are not smart enough. continuity with people who aren't smart isn't worth much.

i'm all for continuity provided the person is smart

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The difference between Leach and Shafer is Leach has proven that he can WIN games, he has proven that his style works. Different being patient with a guy that has demonstrated success as a HC in the past than one who hasn't. Pretty cut and dry, IMO

Leach has a number of disciples who have also proven that they can move the football, his system has proven successful. Look at the fat bastard at Kansas, if he wasn't crazy he would still be there, another guy that worked with Leach

 

[TheCusian]

cherry picking alert!

he was a defensive coordinator at stanford and they went 4-8. stanford is a better football program than washington state to put it mildly.

leach's winning % at WSU might be better than Shafer's here by sunday and leach inherited a much bigger sh!tshow

Yeah - that's definitive. C'mon. You said it like it was obvious that he'd be a worse HC at WSU. Marrone/Shafer took the Syracuse D from 102 total D to 37 total in one year.

And Stanford at the time was very comparable. They sucked.

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah - that's definitive. C'mon. You said it like it was obvious that he'd be a worse HC at WSU. Marrone/Shafer took the Syracuse D from 102 total D to 37 total in one year.

And Stanford at the time was very comparable. They sucked.

it is obvious

what percentage of Washington state fans would think they'd be better off with scott shafer?

 

[Aweart23]

I feel like every year under Shafer we're having to depend on freshmen. Does that tell us anything? Are players progressing the way they should under this coaching staff?

It tells me the last staff did a poor job recruiting for the offense. Something that many people on this board complained about constantly during HCDM tenure.

 

[TheCusian]

it is obvious

what percentage of Washington state fans would think they'd be better off with scott shafer?

I'd be more excited. But that's a different question.

It's not obvious. Let's throw out 2012 since they were so horrible the years prior.

And just compare the last 3? He has 2 more wins over that time and no bowl wins ... and has a proven offensive system while we rolled with Mcit.

(So in 4 years he's approaching Shafer's win % in 3? Doesn't that answer the question that it's not obvious?)

 

[Millhouse]

I'd be more excited. But that's a different question.

It's not obvious. Let's throw out 2012 since they were so horrible the years prior.

And just compare the last 3? He has 2 more wins over that time and no bowl wins ... and has a proven offensive system while we rolled with Mc. . . . it.

(So in 4 years he's approaching Shafer's win % in 3? Doesn't that answer the question that it's not obvious?)

shafer chose mcf***it. it's not like it was some accident

 

[TheCusian]

shafer chose mcf***it. it's not like it was some accident

Exactly. Monumental mistake and it's only 2 games difference and he's your chosen example of offensive football idolatry.

 

[Millhouse]

Exactly. Monumental mistake and it's only 2 games difference and he's your chosen example of offensive football idolatry.

washington state's schedules have been brutal also in 2013 and 2014

simple rating system (you'll like it - it's all about points and strength of schedule based on points)

2013
WSU 45th
SU 60th

2014
WSU 74th
SU 86th

2015
WSU 61st
SU 75th

they've been better every year. and if you had asked anyone prior to the 2013 season, who is in better shape, the answer would've been SU

 

[Ottoble]

We know Shafer can put a great defense on the field. OK, this year's is subpar because we have a lot of young players learning on the job.

But, the offense, despite having some real playmakers and a prodigy at QB, what have they done?

As I see it, Lester has 3 games to prove himself (Louisville, NC State & BC).

What am I missing here, if I recall correctly Points is what matters when the clock hits zero.

We are running our offense in a manner intended to protect the thin/young defense and limit total plays per game as much as possible which which will limit our yards per game. Since our defense is not as stout we are averaging the same total number of plays per game between us and our opponents. With 8 fewer offensive plays per game, our points per game has gone up by 12.2 points per game over last year.

The problem is Depth and experience in this years defense. That and clock management are 100% the problem with this team.

SU Offense:
Offense Points per Play:
2015 .433 #41 New OC/system
2014 .235 #122

Offense Points Per Game:
2015 29.3 #65 New OC/System
2014 17.1 #121

Offensive Efficiency (out of 100):
2015 #57 Syracuse, ACC 53.2 New OC/system
2014 #111 Syracuse, ACC 24.1

SU Defense:
Opponent points per play:
2015 .436 #87 lost 8 starters replaced by Frosh/Soph
2014 .344 #37

Opponent Points per Game :
2015 29.4 #84 lost 8 starters replaced by Frosh/Soph
2014 24.3 #83 Offense couldn't stay on the field in 2014 ... see huge points per play/D Efficiency rank differential

Defensive Efficiency (out of 100)
2015 #96 Syracuse, ACC 37.6 lost 8 starters replaced by Frosh/Soph
2014 #41 Syracuse, ACC 63.6

 

[TheCusian]

washington state's schedules have been brutal also in 2013 and 2014 simple rating system (you'll like it - it's all about points and strength of schedule based on points) 2013 WSU 45th SU 60th 2014 WSU 74th SU 86th 2015 WSU 61st SU 75th they've been better every year. and if you had asked anyone prior to the 2013 season, who is in better shape, the answer would've been SU

SOS is pretty even - I checked before posting.

 

[Millhouse]

SOS is pretty even - I checked before posting.

not in 2013 and 2014 it wasn't

this year, their SOS is bad

 

[OrangeMojo]

not in 2013 and 2014 it wasn't

this year, their SOS is bad

Rutgers will do that to you

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Nice picking and choosing on what to slide in there.

Never said I agreed with the match-ups they're choosing because I don't know what they're choosing and why on a weekly basis. Doesn't mean they're wrong either.

But, if you can't see that we run the same pass concepts that other teams do, than I'm sorry, it's pretty standard stuff.

You preach Air Raid and Mike Leach, you specifically made a point to talk about how nobody would acknowledge his success a couple weeks ago. What you didn't say was that in his first full 3 seasons with Wazzu he won 3, 6 and 3 games. Huh, HCSS is actually better at this point. He's starting to have success now in year 4. What's the difference? Where they started? Because Mike Leach looked good by scoring 40 points and losing? Does it matter if the score's 23-20 or 47-42?

It does matter actually. Much better to lose in a high scoring game.

 

[OrangeJohn]

I'm pretty sure we can count that time he was nearly decapitated as a concussion.

 

[Finwad32]

It does matter actually. Much better to lose in a high scoring game.

Like our Virginia game? I was just as frustrated after Pitt. No difference in my eyes.