The new buzzword in college basketball...

[bballbeadle]

No offense to you Beadle, but APR is stupid. On one hand, we gladly accept one and done players into the college ranks, yet measure schools on the academic progress of their players. The one and dones have no intention of trying to get a traditional academic education, they are there to pursue their basketball careers and the system has forced them to make a one year detour through a college to do so. If you are going to allow one and dones and even two and dones, then why go through the fantasy of measuring academic progress. If Chris McCullough is going to leave after this season, why does it matter whether he met bare minimum academic progress requirements?? Flip side is if Chris McCullough is going to leave after one year, then why is he even playing in college?

Don't get me wrong. I love college basketball. I want SU to get as many one and done caliber players as it can and I want SU to be competitive, but college sports have swung so far towards being a professional endeavor that maybe its time to drop the pretense of requiring athletes to pursue an education. Maybe another way to do it would be for schools to make a commitment to players that play for them. Athletes could be allowed to attend classes while they play, but would not be required to do so. For each year that an athlete participates at a school they are guaranteed a year's worth of study that can be cashed in at any time in the future - like after the professional basketball career doesn't really work out.

No offense taken, Pfister. You expanded upon the point I was trying to make. Of course the APR is stupid in its present structure.

During the Duke game, Vitale made a comment about changing college bball so that those who want to go straight to the NBA can go. Players who come to college should stay for three years. What happens now is that players are ALL one and done and the NBA greedily sucks them up, and then ships them off to the D League (Ennis). People might say three years is too long, but why not? The happiest, most interesting and expanding times these players (KIDS, by the way) will ever have will be in college. This system deprives the kids of that opportunity to grow their brains, their personalities and their sense of self. Carmelo cried when he announced he was leaving college and we all know why.

I hope that the sickening Kentucky situation will be a catalyst for change which will be in everyone's best interests. In the meantime, we must see how this plays out.

 

[HOFCeluck]

What happens now is that players are ALL one and done and the NBA greedily sucks them up, and then ships them off to the D League (Ennis). People might say three years is too long, but why not? The happiest, most interesting and expanding times these players (KIDS, by the way) will ever have will be in college. This system deprives the kids of that opportunity to grow their brains, their personalities and their sense of self. Carmelo cried when he announced he was leaving college and we all know why.

1. College isn't for everyone

2. I think there's a bias intrinsic to a college sports message board that playing in college >>>> playing in the D league. I wonder what Tyler Ennis thinks.

3. Overall I agree with you and Vitale.

 

[longislandcuse]

Can we platoon our 2 guys off the bench who get playing time?

 

[longislandcuse]

The good thing about College basketball is the best team doesn't always win the title. The basketball system unlike college football is setup to promote parity. For instance in 5 years at Kentucky, Calipari has one title and he gets the best recruits every year. Compare that to Nick Saban who is the Cal of College football at Alabama and he had 3 in his first 6 years.

So while theres probably 30 teams that have some kind of hope to making the final four this year, realistically in football theres probably only ten teams a year that have a shot. At the beginning of last year the only final four team most experts had correct was Kentucky. Nobody picked UConn, and few experts picked Wisconsin or Florida at the start of the year.

I LOATHEEEEEE this about CBB.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I LOATHEEEEEE this about CBB.

It's the same in the NFL. You can argue this about any single elimination tournament.

 

[longislandcuse]

It's the same in the NFL. You can argue this about any single elimination tournament.

The best teams at least make it to within an earshot of the title. You don't have Final 4 caliber teams losing in the Round of 32.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Since 1985 22/30 teams that won it all have been a 1 or 2 seed. It hasn't been that bad TBH.

 

[pearl31]

Since 1985 22/30 teams that won it all have been a 1 or 2 seed. It hasn't been that bad TBH.

yeah, cream almost always rises to the top - or at least to the f4

 

[JarHeadJim]

http://teespring.com/ukplatoons

 

[HOFCeluck]

Leve it to UK fans to lose perspective.

 

[Czar]

I was sickened to the point where I had to stop watching last night (the game being a blowout laugher didn't help). Boeheim' "system" and espn's pimping of it are not good for college basketball.
I'd like to say that he won't be able to trot out his 2-3 zone when they get into the meat of their schedule, and that his army of Jordan Brand boys will not be happy team players on the bench - but the reality is they play a wretched non-con and they will be able to 2-3 away until at least the 2nd week of conference play.
Boeheim has the whole thing gamed and we're all a captive audience. :noidea:

That's what you'd sound like if you were a Kentucky fan complaining about the 2-3 zone.

 

[pearl31]

That's what you'd sound like if you were a Kentucky fan complaining about the 2-3 zone.

Wow, that's just amazingly clever. Because, yeah, a defensive style totally = the systematic gaming of any/all recruiting and eligibility rules

 

[Flacusian]

All of the outrage about Kentucky and Cal ruining college basketball and it not being fair... yada yada... smacks of sour grapes. Look, this season is only in it's infancy and any number of things can transpire as the season unfolds. Kentucky was struggling in it's game against Buffalo just a few days earlier. Can anyone who is so pissed about Kentucky having such an embarrassment of riches honestly say that they wouldn't love to see Syracuse in a similar position?

When someone has the ability to get the cream of the crop to commit to his program in the manner that Cal has, it's NEWS. It's out of the ordinary. And to compound matters, anyone who can convince 10 guys who are in the top echelon of their sport to sit on the bench and share the playing time 50/50 with a "platoon" system obviously has some persuasive powers outside the normal parameters. That's NEWS too.

So, ESPN is in the ENTERTAINMENT business. And they are going to ride those buzzwords to death and be extolling the virtues of Calapari and his 10 messianic wunderkids of the hardwood. You've got enough diaper dandys on that one team alone to rival a maternity ward. So those who allow all of that to get under their skin... well I feel badly for them because it's inevitable. It's gonna happen that we will be getting massive doses of the platoon meme and we'll know the backstory on everyone of the 10 "platoonatics".

There's an entire season ahead and last I heard there is still going to be a tournament with 64 or 68 teams and they are going to play all the games this season. There won't be any gimmies for Kentucky or anyone else for that matter. I'm just going to focus my attention on my favorite team, the Syracuse Orange and I'm confident that they are going to provide me with plenty to cheer about this year. They ALWAYS do. And as for Kentucky and the Platoonatics... Meh... I never was much of a Kentucky fan and this year won't be any different. When it got annoying last night... I just turned the game off and came here for some fun and camaraderie.

LGO!

 

[cuseguy]

Yes, then at the end of the game he said its like "tanks coming over the hill" Its not war dude. People that actually have fought in wars are probably rolling their eyes with all these war parallels. This game tonight is going to be one of the most overblown in recent memory. We will be repeatedly referred to this game tonight by the talking heads when the power of Kentucky is to be discussed. Kansas isnt very good. Let's wait a few weeks before we crown these dudes.

Bilas thinks Kansas is very good.

 

[bballbeadle]

All of the outrage about Kentucky and Cal ruining college basketball and it not being fair... yada yada... smacks of sour grapes. Look, this season is only in it's infancy and any number of things can transpire as the season unfolds. Kentucky was struggling in it's game against Buffalo just a few days earlier. Can anyone who is so pissed about Kentucky having such an embarrassment of riches honestly say that they wouldn't love to see Syracuse in a similar position?

When someone has the ability to get the cream of the crop to commit to his program in the manner that Cal has, it's NEWS. It's out of the ordinary. And to compound matters, anyone who can convince 10 guys who are in the top echelon of their sport to sit on the bench and share the playing time 50/50 with a "platoon" system obviously has some persuasive powers outside the normal parameters. That's NEWS too.

So, ESPN is in the ENTERTAINMENT business. And they are going to ride those buzzwords to death and be extolling the virtues of Calapari and his 10 messianic wunderkids of the hardwood. You've got enough diaper dandys on that one team alone to rival a maternity ward. So those who allow all of that to get under their skin... well I feel badly for them because it's inevitable. It's gonna happen that we we be getting massive doses of the platoon meme and we'll know the backstory on everyone of the 10 "platoonatics".

There's an entire season ahead and last I heard there is still going to be a tournament with 64 or 68 teams and they are going to play all the games this season. There won't be any gimmies for Kentucky or anyone else for that matter. I'm just going to focus my attention on my favorite team, the Syracuse Orange and I'm confident that they are going to provide me with plenty to cheer about this year. They ALWAYS do. And as for Kentucky and the Platoonatics... Meh... I never was much of a Kentucky fan and this year won't be any different. When it got annoying last night... I just turned the game off and came here for some fun and camaraderie.

LGO!

Flacusian, I agree with much of what you said and I love your attitude. I said I was going to try to ignore Kentucky myself, and find that I am still giving energy to it. D'oh! However, I will respond to your first point and say that I would NOT want Syracuse to have that kind of system in place with all these recruits who are one and doners. I love college basketball, not pre-NBA basketball. I love to watch the players come in as "lambs" and go out as "lions." I love to get to know them and their families and the situations they come from. I like to see the progress and growth that happens when young men come to our program at 18 and don't leave until 21 or so.

Take this team, for example. We are not that good right now (I don't think, but what do I know?) but we are going to watch them develop and it is exciting! I believe that one and done is ruining college basketball, and I like to hope that perhaps enough people l feel like I do and that perhaps something will change. In the meantime, yes, we have a whole season to play and anything can happen! Go Cuse!

 

[Flacusian]

Flacusian, I agree with much of what you said and I love your attitude. I said I was going to try to ignore Kentucky myself, and find that I am still giving energy to it. D'oh! However, I will respond to your first point and say that I would NOT want Syracuse to have that kind of system in place with all these recruits who are one and doners. I love college basketball, not pre-NBA basketball. I love to watch the players come in as "lambs" and go out as "lions." I love to get to know them and their families and the situations they come from. I like to see the progress and growth that happens when young men come to our program at 18 and don't leave until 21 or so.

Take this team, for example. We are not that good right now (I don't think, but what do I know?) but we are going to watch them develop and it is exciting! I believe that one and done is ruining college basketball, and I like to hope that perhaps enough people l feel like I do and that perhaps something will change. In the meantime, yes, we have a whole season to play and anything can happen! Go Cuse!

I absolutely agree with your points regarding our ability as fans to connect with and vicariously experience the progression through college that the "program" type players undergo. That's one of the wonderful things about Syracuse basketball. Jimmy B mixes a blend of highly rated elite players with program type players who are going to stay for at least 2 years if not more and who lend consistency to the program. We've been following the career of Rakeem Christmas for nearly 6 years now. From the time we first heard about the staff pursuing him to come to Syracuse to this year as he emerges as our "go to" player and elder leader. Unfortunately the reality of todays world is such that elite players are not going to stay in the college ranks for very long. The economics of professional sports as big business dictates that and we see it encroaching into every aspect of amateur collegiate sports. For those of us who are older, we were lucky enough to have experienced some of the magic which happened prior to the contamination of $$$. We saw the coming of age of the Big East Conference which was an incredible incarnation and provided a framework inside of which Syracuse Basketball, the 2-3 zone and Jimmy Boeheim became household words.

Ultimately those same forces which aided in the creation of that wonderful conference also transformed the landscape into one which resulted in it's demise. I just consider myself lucky to have been at a lot of those Big East Tournaments in the Garden and to have seen Pearl, Moten, Carmelo, and even farther back, Wendell Alexis, Rosie, Dennis Duval etc. etc.

Now it's different but my zeal for Syracuse basketball is still as high as ever. It's just different now. All of College Basketball is different. But on any given night you can still see something special happen. The 6 OT game. I'll never forget that as long as I live. In all of sports many of my favorite moments have been with Syracuse Basketball. That's why I come to this forum every day of the year. Often 5 or 6 times a day. There is just something special about THIS PROGRAM, this group of fans, and the players who wear the ORANGE uniform.

I've lived in Florida since 1993 and as a result most of the games I've been able to see have been vs. Miami, or S. Florida or on several occasions the Florida Gators. When I go to the games here in Florida there is, more often than not, as many if not more Syracuse fans at the game than the particular Florida team that they are playing. And the volume of the Let's Go Orange" chants can make you feel like you are back in Manley if you close your eyes.

So...good luck to Kentucky. I hope they have a great season. But I hope that we just happen to have a season that is a wee bit better. It will be better in my eyes no matter what the outcome.

 

[SUintheVille]

These kids are brainwashed in believing that if they go to UK, then Cal knows how to get them to the NBA. That's crap, many of them would get to the NBA if anyone, even Igor, was coaching them. Well, maybe not anyone.

At least you guys and gals don't have to listen to the "P" word every single agonizing game on the news like me living down the road.

Maybe it's like the platoon in Gomer Pyle. Cal must be Sgt. Carter. Not sure who's Gomer.

 

[CaptainJ]

These kids are brainwashed in believing that if they go to UK, then Cal knows how to get them to the NBA. That's crap, many of them would get to the NBA if anyone, even Igor, was coaching them. Well, maybe not anyone.

At least you guys and gals don't have to listen to the "P" word every single agonizing game on the news like me living down the road.

Maybe it's like the platoon in Gomer Pyle. Cal must be Sgt. Carter. Not sure who's Gomer.

Did they ever get a visit from the Captain?

 

[bballbeadle]

These kids are brainwashed in believing that if they go to UK, then Cal knows how to get them to the NBA. That's crap, many of them would get to the NBA if anyone, even Igor, was coaching them. Well, maybe not anyone.

At least you guys and gals don't have to listen to the "P" word every single agonizing game on the news like me living down the road.

Maybe it's like the platoon in Gomer Pyle. Cal must be Sgt. Carter. Not sure who's Gomer.

I feel so sorry for you.

But hey! On the bright side, the Louisville cousins are driving to Syracuse in the dead of winter (having to cross the dreaded and blight-filled Buffalo Zone) so they can see us and attend the Ville game in the Dome!

 

[SUintheVille]

Did they ever get a visit from the Captain?

The Captain? Not sure who you mean. Captain Kangaroo?

 

[CaptainJ]

The Captain? Not sure who you mean. Captain Kangaroo?

I come from a proud lineage.

 

[Czar]

Wow, that's just amazingly clever. Because, yeah, a defensive style totally = the systematic gaming of any/all recruiting and eligibility rules

My point is people outside of Syracuse complain about the zone in the exact same way. And he's not gaming anything.

 

[pearl31]

And he's not gaming anything.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[SUintheVille]

I come from a proud lineage.

Duh, I wasn't thinking about your moniker. Wouldn't have said Captain Kangeroo. Maybe it should be Captain Nemo, Captain Kirk, Captain Morgan, Captain Crunch, Captain Hook, Captain Jack Sparrow, Captain America, Captain Obvious, Captain Solo, Captain Stubing, Captain Ahab, Captain Davy Jones, Captain Barbossa, or maybe it's just CaptainJ.

Did I miss any good ones?

 

[Doc5120]

"Platoon".

I'm already sick of hearing it. It's gonna be a long season.

Calipari trying to get more attention (and succeeding). I'm completely over that word. Once they lose (which hopefully they do), that will change.