The real missing piece with this team

[anomander]

I know some folks that are well connected to the coaching staff at a big 5 school in Philly. They told me two years ago that RC's intensity was not held in high regard by that staff and that they weren't impressed with him. A few weeks ago Dan Dakish (sp) did an SU game and he let the cat out of the bag. He said that Hopkins was trying everything in the book to motivate RC. Not good. I am just distressed that DC could not get on the floor ahead of the other two.

I am confident that dc will be a sold contributor for us eventually

 

[Bayside44]

We have zippy post presence. Teams relly overplay our 2s and 3s. And when they don't try slashing (like today), well...

 

[OttoMets]

I actually don't mind rak . When he is playing with confidence he is really good (for a college center). I just think he has been totally dismantled mentally by Jim . You can see every time something happens around him he's looking at the bench to see if he is getting the hook . I said it before I an probably the biggest rak fan around. Maybe it's because I have seen what he can bring (@pc, nova, Louisville). His athleticism alone should give him the majority of the minutes

At the very least, the quick hooks and long rests have deprived the team of a superior player and deprived Christmas of needed court time.

But yeah, it's looking more like the Paul Harris treatment is having a negative effect on Christmas's psyche and, as a result, on his play.

I can't think of too many examples of guys being micromanaged and developing into great players. At some point they need to get consistent minutes for long stretches and grow comfortable with their ability to play through mistakes.

 

[bpo57]

I'm not saying that either of them is a "complete" player in the mold of versatile wings like Pippen, Lebron, or even Melo for that matter. But they are both pretty good collegiate players, and both bring a LOT to the table. Heck, CJ has been on a mad tear our last 6-7 games, and I'm not going out on a limb to suggest that they are emerging as the two best players on the team [with MCW slumping into third place].

There are a lot bigger problems that this team has. In no particular order:

--Complete and utter lack of an inside game
--Inconsistent three point shooting outside of CJ / James
--A PG who has difficulty facilitating our half court offense against good teams
--Subpar rebounding

I totally agree with your diagnosis of the problem areas. I also agree that CJ is the best player on the team. I would rank Triche second but he really stunk today and would admit he needs to be a lot more consistent. I am not as high on JS. I hate his defense (arms down and not very active) and he is too one dimensional on offense but admit that dimension he brings is sorely needed by SU.

 

[chlywtr]

i want to know where grant has gone.....james is really cutting in to his minutes

 

[Ghost]

I know some folks that are well connected to the coaching staff at a big 5 school in Philly. They told me two years ago that RC's intensity was not held in high regard by that staff and that they weren't impressed with him. A few weeks ago Dan Dakish (sp) did an SU game and he let the cat out of the bag. He said that Hopkins was trying everything in the book to motivate RC. Not good. I am just distressed that DC could not get on the floor ahead of the other two.

I wrote this in one of the deleted threads, and I guess I'll post again.

Rak's lack of intensity, and Baye's extraordinary intensity are two or the most exaggerated things on this board.

Just look at today's game for an example - Rak is doing what we ask him to do. I'm not sure why ppl are so critical of his play still - he's been okay for a while now. He looks for his man, and boxes out on pretty much every possession. Baye doesn't, but ppl readily forgive him because he hustles. He's running back on defense, just like Baye does.

When he's not awkwardly waiting to go screen for the guards, who don't always wait for the screen, he's posting up and getting decent position. He never touches the ball. And the "yo-yo" is painful - he played great to open the game, pulled anyway. I think offensively we've done just about everything we could do to make him a basket case - it's not surprising he makes mistakes when he touches the ball (barely ever does, gets pulled for just bizarre reasons).

He's not much of a C, but we've done this kid absolutely ZERO favors this year.

 

[dasher]

Tell me, then, who would you trade for besides Porter?

LOL anyone they put at center, starter or sub, is better than what we put out there. How could you not see that? They have a shooting guard that scored 30. Who doi we have that can do that? We have a point guard that can't shoot. A shooting guard that struggles shooting the ball and a 3rd guard that really offers nothing. We get nothing out of our 5 spot. And our 4's are not the rebounders that other teams 4's are.

 

[dasher]

I wrote this in one of the deleted threads, and I guess I'll post again.

Rak's lack of intensity, and Baye's extraordinary intensity are two or the most exaggerated things on this board.

Just look at today's game for an example - Rak is doing what we ask him to do. I'm not sure why ppl are so critical of his play still - he's been okay for a while now. He looks for his man, and boxes out on pretty much every possession. Baye doesn't, but ppl readily forgive him because he hustles. He's running back on defense, just like Baye does.

When he's not awkwardly waiting to go screen for the guards, who don't always wait for the screen, he's posting up and getting decent position. He never touches the ball. And the "yo-yo" is painful - he played great to open the game, pulled anyway. I think offensively we've done just about everything we could do to make him a basket case - it's not surprising he makes mistakes when he touches the ball (barely ever does, gets pulled for just bizarre reasons).

He's not much of a C, but we've done this kid absolutely ZERO favors this year.

you are right about one thing. He is not much of a center. Ppl expect nothing from Baye. Rak was suppose to be good. And he isn't.

 

[OttoMets]

LOL anyone they put at center, starter or sub, is better than what we put out there. How could you not see that? They have a shooting guard that scored 30. Who doi we have that can do that? We have a point guard that can't shoot. A shooting guard that struggles shooting the ball and a 3rd guard that really offers nothing. We get nothing out of our 5 spot. And our 4's are not the rebounders that other teams 4's are.

Triche scored 29 seven days ago.

He was bad today, but I'm not taking the young Georgetown kid over him.

And Georgetown doesn't even have a center. Not "has a thin center who struggles to catch," but actually doesn't have a center. So I'll keep ouy guys there, too.

 

[bpo57]

I wrote this in one of the deleted threads, and I guess I'll post again.

Rak's lack of intensity, and Baye's extraordinary intensity are two or the most exaggerated things on this board.

Just look at today's game for an example - Rak is doing what we ask him to do. I'm not sure why ppl are so critical of his play still - he's been okay for a while now. He looks for his man, and boxes out on pretty much every possession. Baye doesn't, but ppl readily forgive him because he hustles. He's running back on defense, just like Baye does.

When he's not awkwardly waiting to go screen for the guards, who don't always wait for the screen, he's posting up and getting decent position. He never touches the ball. And the "yo-yo" is painful - he played great to open the game, pulled anyway. I think offensively we've done just about everything we could do to make him a basket case - it's not surprising he makes mistakes when he touches the ball (barely ever does, gets pulled for just bizarre reasons).

He's not much of a C, but we've done this kid absolutely ZERO favors this year.

My compliment of BMK's attitude/ability to run the floor was a little along the lines of "she has a nice personality" if you know what I mean. There are a few folks that have made that argument that RC doesn't get fed the ball enough. That may be true but there is a good reason. His teammates obviously don't have the confidence in him to give him the ball. I counted three times today where he was fed the ball in a good spot and he came up 0-3, two fumbles and a rejection. I expect two years from now people will still be making excuses for him. Even if you drop the intensity argument, which I think has validity, he is just not productive. That's the bottom line.

 

[Orangezoo]

I'm not saying that either of them is a "complete" player in the mold of versatile wings like Pippen, Lebron, or even Melo for that matter. But they are both pretty good collegiate players, and both bring a LOT to the table. Heck, CJ has been on a mad tear our last 6-7 games, and I'm not going out on a limb to suggest that they are emerging as the two best players on the team [with MCW slumping into third place].

There are a lot bigger problems that this team has than the way the 3's are playing. In no particular order:

--Complete and utter lack of an inside game
--Inconsistent three point shooting outside of CJ / James
--A PG who has difficulty facilitating our half court offense against good teams
--Subpar rebounding

i hear you but i think you missed my point.. it was not to say that cj or james are not good players. it was to say that the lack of a more complete small forward who can handle the rock better is huge piece we do not have this year. we were an inconsistant 3 pt shooting team that did not feed the post to score or rebound last year. the flexibility that kris gave us provided spacing for scoop/dion/triche. mcw and triches futility from 3 hurts.. yes.. but with cj and james non threats off the dribble we are completely reliant on 2 guards to make plays off the bounce and honestly neither is all that great due to mcws high dribble and triches struggles with footwork. i dont disagree that we are weak in other areas but we would need both outside shooting and better post play which is a lot to ask for.. i was merely referencing if we could have one thing.. an all around ball handling 3 would be it..

 

[Ghost]

My compliment of BMK's attitude/ability to run the floor was a little along the lines of "she has a nice personality" if you know what I mean. There are a few folks that have made that argument that RC doesn't get fed the ball enough. That may be true but there is a good reason. His teammates obviously don't have the confidence in him to give him the ball. I counted three times today where he was fed the ball in a good spot and he came up 0-3, two fumbles and a rejection. I expect two years from now people will still be making excuses for him. Even if you drop the intensity argument, which I think has validity, he is just not productive. That's the bottom line.

He took three shots today.

He got the ball in the post - drove to the lane - fouled.

He missed on a lob.

He got the feed from MCW with 1 second on the shot clock, I'm not sure why everyone was expecting him to pump fake and and dunk that. He had to get it up quickly - what was he going to do?

He scored on a put back late.

What other touches are you referring to?

I'm not saying they need to feed him the ball constantly, but one post touch is not enough. The one legit feed he got in the post - he was fouled going into the lane. Guards do not feed the post - you can't improve if you don't touch the ball more than once every two weeks other than on lobs, bail-out passes.

 

[syr02esq]

Is not having a true "3". CJ is a tweener with a a nice mid range game but no handle, James is a tweener who plays more like a mix of a 2g and a stretch pf.. but still with no handle. Without that - there is just too much reliance on the guards to do all the heavy lifting regarding ball handling. Watching Porter just sealed that for me. Think to K-Jo, Wes, Melo, Blackwell in the past 15 years and then continue back further as well. The SF position has always been key. Jerami shows signs of having the ability to put the ball on the floor more than James/CJ showed early during there time on the hill. I don't know enough about what the crew next year brings but unless next year provides a drastic improvement in inside scoring and outside shooting we need someone to step up and be a true "3". The little things that don't show up on the scoreboard like spacing that K-Jo provided really show when you watch how Porter gives Gtown that same kind of weapon and how our guards have no room to operate. I am impressed we stand at 22-5 basically off the back of defense/rebounding and some big games from James/Jerami/MCW and Triche.

Our biggest problem is that we have no shot maker on the inside to take heat away from our guards. Xmas can't create and he's a liability on anything but put aways. Coleman is a frosh but holds promise. Keita can't create either. We need a back to the basket type player. I so miss Jackson.

 

[OttoMets]

He took three shots today.

He got the ball in the post - drove to the lane - fouled.

He missed on a lob.

He got the feed from MCW with 1 second on the shot clock, I'm not sure why everyone was expecting him to pump fake and and dunk that. He had to get it up quickly - what was he going to do?

He scored on a put back late.

What other touches are you referring to?

I'm not saying they need to feed him the ball constantly, but one post touch is not enough. The one legit feed he got in the post - he was fouled going into the lane. Guards do not feed the post - you can't improve if you don't touch the ball more than once every two weeks other than on lobs, bail-out passes.

This is funny.

So many of the bigs' limited touches come on bailout situations like this; the guards don't know what to do, the hot potato comes in to Christmas or Keita, and the big man gets the blame when we have an empty possession.

 

[Orangezoo]

Our biggest problem is that we have no shot maker on the inside to take heat away from our guards. Xmas can't create and he's a liability on anything but put aways. Coleman is a frosh but holds promise. Keita can't create either. We need a back to the basket type player. I so miss Jackson.

we do- we also miss somebody he can kick it to .. we need a scorer bad... or at least another ball handler to offset the futility in the post.. we could have won the whole thing without a back to the basket player last year...

 

[bevosu]

Rak...I think it's only fair to mention that Christmas did get one other tip in, unfortunately he and us got no credit for it.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

I wrote this in one of the deleted threads, and I guess I'll post again.

Rak's lack of intensity, and Baye's extraordinary intensity are two or the most exaggerated things on this board.

Just look at today's game for an example - Rak is doing what we ask him to do. I'm not sure why ppl are so critical of his play still - he's been okay for a while now. He looks for his man, and boxes out on pretty much every possession. Baye doesn't, but ppl readily forgive him because he hustles. He's running back on defense, just like Baye does.

When he's not awkwardly waiting to go screen for the guards, who don't always wait for the screen, he's posting up and getting decent position. He never touches the ball. And the "yo-yo" is painful - he played great to open the game, pulled anyway. I think offensively we've done just about everything we could do to make him a basket case - it's not surprising he makes mistakes when he touches the ball (barely ever does, gets pulled for just bizarre reasons).

He's not much of a C, but we've done this kid absolutely ZERO favors this year.

How much time do you give someone wandering around, not playing to his potential, unable to finish against anyone in the Big East. You earn your minutes. You don't get them just in the event you might decide to concentrate, remember your assignments and play hard. Want to touch the ball? Get a damned offensive rebound and put-back. JB doesn't stop him from that. Can you remember the last (maybe the first) time he has done that?

That is why people are critical of him. We actually watch what he does, not what we think he might possibly do sometime in the future if the mood strikes him and he can remember his assignments. If you actually watched the games you might discover the "bizarre reasons" he gets pulled for. Or do you actually think JB is pulling him just for kicks?

 

[Ghost]

How much time do you give someone wandering around, not playing to his potential, unable to finish against anyone in the Big East. You earn your minutes. You don't get them just in the event you might decide to concentrate, remember your assignments and play hard. Want to touch the ball? Get a damned offensive rebound and put-back. JB doesn't stop him from that. Can you remember the last (maybe the first) time he has done that?

That is why people are critical of him. We actually watch what he does, not what we think he might possibly do sometime in the future if the mood strikes him and he can remember his assignments. If you actually watched the games you might discover the "bizarre reasons" he gets pulled for. Or do you actually think JB is pulling him just for kicks?

Fine, watch the game again.

Count for me the number of times he doesn't box out or look for his man to box out - that's what was happening on his tip-in, he looked for his, was trying to get in position to box out and then jumped late and it ended up just being a tip. He's trying - if ppl don't see it, I don't know what to say.

He's second on the team in offensive rebounds - which proves he never gets one obviously. Per minute he and Baye would probably lead the team by quite a bit.

I don't think half of you watch the post men at all - the perception exists and then it just sticks for the year. Hell, this is the same board where 80% of the ppl have insisted for four years that BT is a phenomenal 3 point shooter based on the fact that other ppl on the board say so.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Fine, watch the game again.

Count for me the number of times he doesn't box out or look for his man to box out. He's second on the team in offensive rebounds - which proves he never gets one obviously. Per minute he and Baye would probably lead the team by quite a bit.

I don't think half of you watch the post men at all - the perception exists and then it just sticks for the year. Hell, this is the same board where 80% of the ppl have insisted for four years that BT is a phenomenal 3 point shooter based on the fact that other ppl on the board say so.

25 for number one and 37 for the other. Thats per what I read somewhere 3 or 4 years ago. It may have even been an SU fan. Maybe on this very board too.

Who is this BT person you speak of?

Given that I only watch most games several times, others only 2 to 3 times, concentrating on the different position players, I'll defer to your "opinion". That is if you are not on this board where I would get opinions from those who do not watch the games, at least not the center position apparently.

It would be nice, if when he gets all these rebounds under, near or in proximity to our basket, that he score. Just once would be nice, then he could improve to once per game maybe. Would you be kind enough to remind me when he did this last? That is if he has ever done this for SU. This may prove his offensive skills and mind set are exactly where I think they are.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Is not having a true "3". CJ is a tweener with a a nice mid range game but no handle, James is a tweener who plays more like a mix of a 2g and a stretch pf.. but still with no handle. Without that - there is just too much reliance on the guards to do all the heavy lifting regarding ball handling. Watching Porter just sealed that for me. Think to K-Jo, Wes, Melo, Blackwell in the past 15 years and then continue back further as well. The SF position has always been key. Jerami shows signs of having the ability to put the ball on the floor more than James/CJ showed early during there time on the hill. I don't know enough about what the crew next year brings but unless next year provides a drastic improvement in inside scoring and outside shooting we need someone to step up and be a true "3". The little things that don't show up on the scoreboard like spacing that K-Jo provided really show when you watch how Porter gives Gtown that same kind of weapon and how our guards have no room to operate. I am impressed we stand at 22-5 basically off the back of defense/rebounding and some big games from James/Jerami/MCW and Triche.

No. Its not having an offensive player that scares people.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[anomander]

I wrote this in one of the deleted threads, and I guess I'll post again.

Rak's lack of intensity, and Baye's extraordinary intensity are two or the most exaggerated things on this board.

Just look at today's game for an example - Rak is doing what we ask him to do. I'm not sure why ppl are so critical of his play still - he's been okay for a while now. He looks for his man, and boxes out on pretty much every possession. Baye doesn't, but ppl readily forgive him because he hustles. He's running back on defense, just like Baye does.

When he's not awkwardly waiting to go screen for the guards, who don't always wait for the screen, he's posting up and getting decent position. He never touches the ball. And the "yo-yo" is painful - he played great to open the game, pulled anyway. I think offensively we've done just about everything we could do to make him a basket case - it's not surprising he makes mistakes when he touches the ball (barely ever does, gets pulled for just bizarre reasons).

He's not much of a C, but we've done this kid absolutely ZERO favors this year.

this right here. love it. thank god someone else recognizes it.

no matter how much people don't like christmas he is still leaps and bounds ahead of kieta.

 

[Ghost]

25 for number one and 37 for the other. Thats per what I read somewhere 3 or 4 years ago. It may have even been an SU fan. Maybe on this very board too.

Who is this BT person you speak of?

Given that I only watch most games several times, others only 2 to 3 times, concentrating on the different position players, I'll defer to your "opinion". That is if you are not on this board where I would get opinions from those who do not watch the games, at least not the center position apparently.

It would be nice, if when he gets all these rebounds under, near or in proximity to our basket, that he score. Just once would be nice, then he could improve to once per game maybe. Would you be kind enough to remind me when he did this last? That is if he has ever done this for SU. This may prove his offensive skills and mind set are exactly where I think they are.

Fine, today. I'm not sure how u missed it during your 4 viewings.

Happy?

He scored once for G'town at the rim.

And, once for us.

I win.

 

[thebigeast44]

I'll take CJ Fair everyday of the week over Kjo.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Fine, today. I'm not sure how u missed it during your 4 viewings.

Happy?

He scored once for G'town at the rim.

And, once for us.

I win.

Good for you. Who says a blind squirrel never finds an acorn? You still lose the discussion however on most every other point. One put-back doesn't exactly make you a winner. Your boxing out statement is blatantly an incorrect opinion. His intensity is sadly lacking more often than not. He still misses too many assignments. He is more a Ghost in most games than any other SU player. You of all people should know this.

And no I'm not happy. The guy seems to be a real nice guy with a lot of athletic ability. He just isn't a top notch basketball player given all that talent.

 

[Ghost]

Good for you. Who says a blind squirrel never finds an acorn? You still lose the discussion however on most every other point. One put-back doesn't exactly make you a winner. Your boxing out statement is blatantly an incorrect opinion. His intensity is sadly lacking more often than not. He still misses too many assignments. He is more a Ghost in most games than any other SU player. You of all people should know this.

And no I'm not happy. The guy seems to be a real nice guy with a lot of athletic ability. He just isn't a top notch basketball player given all that talent.

I think we're going to continue to disagree on this.

As to your original points:

How much time do you give someone wandering around, not playing to his potential, unable to finish against anyone in the Big East.

He's shooting over .550 from the field - even if it's all dunks, it shows some aptitude to finish. Not even sure what you're talking about w/ the wandering around comment. I've never seen him end up sitting by CTO in the middle of a play. The kid gets yanked after every miscue - if he lacks confidence, or plays tightly, I can't blame him for that. If he seems to lose interest, well, I would too i I went entire games w/out one person passing me the ball outside of the one bailout pass from MCW per game after he leaves his feet (and honesty it's not NEARLY the issue some of you make it out to be).

It takes a special player to keep his motor running non-stop just to rebound. It really does. I've said it before, it's not an admirable quality, but it applies to lots of big men. If they don't touch the ball, they tend to have What moments where they lose focus. It's not all that out of the ordinary or just a Rak problem. And as of late I haven't seen him doing it much.

Want to touch the ball? Get a damned offensive rebound and put-back. JB doesn't stop him from that.

Really? Want to touch the ball, get a rebound? I don't know, seems like a philosophy. Our guards cannot shoot, why not let some of the other people that cannot shoot try missing too. See my point above - half the time he's up trying to set screens, and he still is second on the team in offensive rebounds. Still shoots .550 plus from the field. It's not like he's the walking dead.

If you actually watched the games you might discover the "bizarre reasons" he gets pulled for. Or do you actually think JB is pulling him just for kicks?

Why did he get pulled in the first half today? He gets pulled off one mistake, JB is notorious for that (it tends dissipate Sophomore years, but to Rak's discredit there has been sometimes where he's lacked intensity and he seems to be in some permanent dog house because of it - Baye gets a much longer leash imo) - it's not a new thing.

If the player behind him offered up a bit more, I wouldn't care. If it was for DC, and DC getting touches to develop his game, so be it. Baye comes in and offers up very little - certainly not more than Rak, and can make the same mistakes and stay in (let's not pretend that making mistakes is just a Rak thing - it's absurd but it feels like a lot of u think that). I just find the rotation confusing. That's all.

Again, Rak was the only player in the UConn/G'Town game that was a net positive, when Baye was in both games we got destroyed. Yet Baye's still getting substantial minutes and foul trouble wasn't an issue in either loss. Maybe Rak was fatigued, but he's played longer stretches, and since he's resting all the time anyway when he's on the court (supposedly) he should be fine to stay in.

By no means am I arguing Rak is great - but he's serviceable, and we do little to use him. He does need to be more productive on the boards, but as I said before, there is a ton of time where he and Baye are 1 on 3 on the boards because the forwards are always rushing in late. You have to be a pretty exceptional rebounder to excel under those circumstances, neither of them are to begin with so it gets accentuated a bit more. Especially with Baye because he lacks strength.

This team sucks offensively, I don't see why when he posts up, and he does, we don't toss it in there once in awhile. See what opens up. It's gotta be better than jacking up threes w/ our sub 30% guards.

And he does box out - ur mental or maybe kept watching the Georgia game and didn't realize it if you missed that for an entire game today.

Rak: 5 in 22
Fab: 5.8 boards in 25 last year