The real ugly side of recruiting-how Seton Hall got Isaiah Whitehead | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

The real ugly side of recruiting-how Seton Hall got Isaiah Whitehead

Serious question if Willard hired Morton after Whitehead left would you see a problem with it? Also, who do you feel is in the wrong? Morton, Whitehead, or Willard?

Personally I feel it was a great move by Willard. It definitely seems a bit sleezy on Morton's end, but obviously IW didn't have a problem with it.
 
retro44 said:
can tiny even coach at a d-1 level....
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A lot of times you want an assistant on the team who is an ace recruiter, or has connections to the area you want to recruit. At very worst Tiny has one area covered.
 
anomander said:
Serious question if Willard hired Morton after Whitehead left would you see a problem with it? Also, who do you feel is in the wrong? Morton, Whitehead, or Willard?

Personally I feel it was a great move by Willard. It definitely seems a bit sleezy on Morton's end, but obviously IW didn't have a problem with it.
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Way wrong on Willard's end: he's got a responsibility to the school, their board, and their students to hire the three best assistant coaches he can reasonably find. He didn't do that here.

And wrong on Tiny's end, too.

Whitehead, ah. Nothing wrong; feel bad for the kid.
 
anomander said:
Serious question if Willard hired Morton after Whitehead left would you see a problem with it? Also, who do you feel is in the wrong? Morton, Whitehead, or Willard?

Personally I feel it was a great move by Willard. It definitely seems a bit sleezy on Morton's end, but obviously IW didn't have a problem with it.
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Wouldn't have a problem with it, but wouldn't have happened. Not a chance. Why did IW have anything to do with this guy getting a college job? He could have applied, interviewed etc, on his own time, away from this kid's recruitment.
I think Morton and Willard are in the wrong here. For Morton, latching onto Whitehead's meal ticket. Willard, even though this might be "legal", just a sneaky way to go around a seriously flawed system. This should be obvious to most.

But I think the real question is this:
If there wasn't a Morton type leech hovering around Whitehead, do you honestly think Whitehead goes to a school like SHU?
Better still, do you think money didn't change hands?
How about indirectly changing hands? Because that actually happened. Legally.

Sad thing is, Whitehead, the person this is supposed to be about, got used.
 
OttoMets said:
Way wrong on Willard's end: he's got a responsibility to the school, their board, and their students to hire the three best assistant coaches he can reasonably find. He didn't do that here.

And wrong on Tiny's end, too.

tee1222 said:
Wouldn't have a problem with it, but wouldn't have happened. Not a chance.
I think Morton and Willard are in the wrong here. For Morton, latching onto Whitehead's meal ticket. Willard, even though this might be "legal", just a sneaky way to go around a seriously flawed system. This should be obvious to most.

But I think the real question is this:
If there wasn't a Morton type leech hovering around Whitehead, do you honestly think Whitehead goes to a school like SHU?
Better still, do you think money didn't change hands?
How about indirectly changing hands? Because that actually happened. Legally.

Sad thing is, Whitehead, the person this is supposed to be about, got used.
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Whitehead, ah. Nothing wrong; feel bad for the kid.
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Unless money was exchanged, or there was some back room dealing where money is concerned I just can't seem to blame Seton Hall. They went all out, and did what they had to become relevant. As for his responsibility to the school, board, and their students you can argue this is exactly what he did. Sure he may have been saving his job along the way, but just look at all of the attention the school has already got. Donations, increased enrollment, and all that other stuff can be directly related to NCAA tournament runs, and strong sports programs. They got Angel Delgado the same way, by hiring Oliver Antigua who was an assistant for the Dominican Republic National team, which Delgado was a part of. Sure Willard got Whitehead directly out of Morton's hire, but who knows how many more NYC recruits they will eventually bring in because of Morton's relationships he has in NYC HS basketball, and AAU coaching circle. He has coached there for 15 years, plus being a director of a big time AAU team, that's a whole lot of connections Willard is bringing to his staff.

This stuff happens a lot, this is just on a larger scale because of Whitehead. Look back to 2008 when Doug Marrone brought on John Anselmo from Nassau CC. He brought him on because of his NYC connections, and look at the dividends it brought Syracuse because of that hire. But do you also know one of his players, Andrew Tiller, who happened to be one of the biggest recruits we brought in the next year played under Anselmo? He picked us over Miami, and NCST. Like I said it happens a lot, if I was a Seton Hall fan I would be more then thrilled.
 
Good points. Agree with all of what you said and would add that not only did Anselmo bring Tiller, but later Hay, (and if I remember correctly) O. Fisher, and Diabate from Nassau as well.
 
You didn't answer any of mine. I answered yours.
:)
Of course, you don't have to, but I'm curious.
If there wasn't a Morton type leech hovering around Whitehead, do you honestly think Whitehead goes to a school like SHU?
Better still, do you think money didn't change hands?
How about indirectly changing hands? Because that actually happened. Legally.
 
Non basketball or recruitment related, just feel as though I have to say this because I grew up 4 miles from SU and went to Seton Hall for a year so I have an interesting perspective on this that I would like to share

Being fresh out of college myself, over the past few years I have developed a different mind set when it comes to college athletes at a high level and it's more than just what you see on espn when they are playing their respective sport. So much more to it, it's the life of a college athlete and the experience you have.

Whitehead is free to do whatever he wants but he is really going to miss out on a crazy experience by passing up schools like SU, UCLA, Indiana, L'ville, and I'm sure a few others by attending Seton Hall. SU players are like movie stars and I'm sure it's similar at those other schools, but at Seton Hall it's no comparison. I have said this once before on this thread but now that he has committed I felt the need to say it again. The college life an athlete experiences is unreal, but at Seton Hall...well he might as well be going to play basketball at SUNY Cortland...I'll put it that way.

I hope I'm wrong and he has a great experience. I wish Whitehead nothing but the best, by no means is he an a$$hole...he's just a kid, no matter how shady his recruitment went. SU hoops is going to be better than ever with or without him.

Just my thoughts.
 
tee1222 said:
You didn't answer any of mine. I answered yours.
:)
Of course, you don't have to, but I'm curious.
If there wasn't a Morton type leech hovering around Whitehead, do you honestly think Whitehead goes to a school like SHU?
Better still, do you think money didn't change hands?
How about indirectly changing hands? Because that actually happened. Legally.
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It's a good point about the money, but it's impossible to know if money will ever be exchanged to the player. I wouldn't put it past them having a deal where he would front him money in some way until he gets to the NBA. I would prefer the NCAA to make a rule where a high school coach can never accept a college job to coach a player from his high school team. He would have to wait until IW either graduated or left early for the NBA. That would make the exchange of money a lot harder.

As for choosing Seton Hall if Morton wasn't there I would honestly say i don't know? If it was any other player I would probably say no, but IW seems to be set on 1 thing. Obviously he has flat out said he wants to be the face of the program, but I believe he doesn't care about college one bit. He sees it as a 1 year NBA exhibition. All along it felt like he wanted to go to a school where he could play 35 mins a game and take 20 shots. Seton Hall seems like a perfect place, and definitely showed that they wanted him to be the face of their program by all of the steps they went to get him. Plus throw in a good friend that is already signed, plus another local talented player in Angel Delgado was good enough for him.
 
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anomander said:
It's a good point about the money, but it's impossible to know if money will ever be exchanged to the player. I wouldn't put it past them having a deal where he would front him money in some way until he gets to the NBA. I would prefer the NCAA to make a rule where a high school coach can never except a college job to coach a player from his high school team. He would have to wait until IW either graduated or left early for the NBA. That would make the exchange of money a lot harder.

As for choosing Seton Hall if Morton wasn't there I would honestly say i don't know? If it was any other player I would probably say no, but IW seems to be set on 1 thing. Obviously he has flat out said he wants to be the face of the program, but I believe he doesn't care about college one bit. He sees it as a 1 year NBA exhibition. All along it felt like he wanted to go to a school where he could play 35 mins a game and take 20 shots. Seton Hall seems like a perfect place, and definitely showed that they wanted him to be the face of their program by all of the steps they went to get him. Plus throw in a good friend that is already signed, plus another local talented player in Angel Delgado was good enough for him.
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Good points on all. Completely agree about IW wanting school to be a stepping stone to the NBA and that college life might not be important to him. But I really did think he wanted to win the whole thing. Can't think he really believes that will happen at the Hall, no offense to the school intended.
 
tee1222 said:
Good points on all. Completely agree about IW wanting school to be a stepping stone to the NBA and that college life might not be important to him. But I really did think he wanted to win the whole thing. Can't think he really believes that will happen at the Hall, no offense to the school intended.
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at this point what were his other option? St John's, Pitt, possibly Indiana? It seemed like it was SJU or Seton Hall so really not much of a difference there? IU and Pitt he may have been worried about playing time, or inability to chuck shots at a ridiculous rate. I really felt it was all about getting to the league, Jeremy Hazell had the greenest light in CBB history
 
anomander said:
at this point what were his other option? St John's, Pitt, possibly Indiana? It seemed like it was SJU or Seton Hall so really not much of a difference there? IU and Pitt he may have been worried about playing time, or inability to chuck shots at a ridiculous rate. I really felt it was all about getting to the league, Jeremy Hazell had the greenest light in CBB history
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Couldn't find it, but I reference it more than once.
At least one interview that is too old to dig (at least 2012) and an article in which he just willed and willed and willed to get his team back in the game. Doubled? Get it to your teammates. Asked to rebound from the off guard spot? Done. That sort of thing. Whatever his coach told him to do to get back in the game or finish it off.

That's the biggest problem I have with the theory of him just being the man in a smaller school. I thought he would want to win on the big stage or at least put himself in a position to do so. Like I said and others have said, he wouldn't worry about competing for a 2 here if he thought or knew he was the best. Winning is not something he really mentions in recent interviews. He did say putting Seton Hall back on the map, but by no way does that mean winning a championship.

Nevertheless, I can appreciate his decision if it was strictly a business decision, ie, the league.
 
tee1222 said:
Couldn't find it, but I reference it more than once.
At least one interview that is too old to dig (at least 2012) and an article in which he just willed and willed and willed to get his team back in the game. Doubled? Get it to your teammates. Asked to rebound from the off guard spot? Done. That sort of thing. Whatever his coach told him to do to get back in the game or finish it off.

That's the biggest problem I have with the theory of him just being the man in a smaller school. I thought he would want to win on the big stage or at least put himself in a position to do so. Like I said and others have said, he wouldn't worry about competing for a 2 here if he thought or knew he was the best. Winning is not something he really mentions in recent interviews. He did say putting Seton Hall back on the map, but by no way does that mean winning a championship.

Nevertheless, I can appreciate his decision if it was strictly a business decision, ie, the league.
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that's the thing that sucks about this. nobody except maybe 3 people know exactly what went down. so personally i just find it tough to criticize the move on both ends without knowing for sure, and all the other things making sense.
 
hard not to see it as a win win. He could have went to ville or indiana and gave us tougher competition instead hes at seton hall.
 
OttoMets said:
Way wrong on Willard's end: he's got a responsibility to the school, their board, and their students to hire the three best assistant coaches he can reasonably find. He didn't do that here.

And wrong on Tiny's end, too.

Whitehead, ah. Nothing wrong; feel bad for the kid.
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IW is complicit in the entire scheme, it isn't just a play by the coach. It's highly likely that Morton will "kick back" some amount of his new found cash to IW's parent. Willard is just doing what's allowed by the rules but ethically it stinks.
 
Can't convince me Cash money isnt being exchanged here somehow. We are talking about Seton Freaking Hall. This dude wasnt even interested in them until late. Sad goings on here. The taint is strong with this one, and not the one in my pants.
 
anomander said:
It's no different on how he got Angel Delgado. He hired Oliver Antigua, who has ties to the Dominican Republic national team. Pretty smart move imo. You want assistant coaches with ties. Sure Morton is Whitehead's coach, but more importantly he is a well known NYC basketball coach. He has connections all throughout the city, and obviously the Hall intends to target NYC for recruits. The move getting Morton, and Antigua is smart. He needed to find a way to give SH a buzz and he has done that. I know if I was a fan of the program I would be thrilled. It's no different then Willie Taggert of USF hiring well known Miami HS football coach Telly Lockette in order to strengthen their recruiting ties in Miami. it happens all the time
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so how does this current regime rank in shadiness compared to Amaker's days at the Hall?
 
In today's articles, Andy Katz writes a nice little blurb about Seton Hall hiring Tiny Morton. This move is legal and it happens occassionally. It is a desperate move, made by desperate coaches. It isn't something that your power houses normally do, because coaches like JB are not going to be strong armed into hiring a coach that he doesn't want on staff. So, Isaiah Whitehead will go to Seton Hall. He will likely play his one year there with little fanfare as the "face of the program". A program that nobody cares about. He, all the time, just a pawn to get his coach a college job. Tiny will exit Seton Hall when Willard does, likely in around two years. Tiny will have gotten his foot in the college coaching door, but will a reputable coach hire him? He knows NYC basketball, but it would seem that all the talent in NYC goes to prep schools in New England and New Jersey. It isn't the old days, and in the tight knit coaching fraternity, Tiny may have burned some bridges with his tactics. Time will tell.
 
anomander said:
It's no different on how he got Angel Delgado. He hired Oliver Antigua, who has ties to the Dominican Republic national team. Pretty smart move imo. You want assistant coaches with ties. Sure Morton is Whitehead's coach, but more importantly he is a well known NYC basketball coach. He has connections all throughout the city, and obviously the Hall intends to target NYC for recruits. The move getting Morton, and Antigua is smart. He needed to find a way to give SH a buzz and he has done that. I know if I was a fan of the program I would be thrilled. It's no different then Willie Taggert of USF hiring well known Miami HS football coach Telly Lockette in order to strengthen their recruiting ties in Miami. it happens all the time
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Obviously the strategy makes sense from Willard's standpoint. The question is ... should coach-poaching be allowed under NCAA rules?

My problems with the practice are: 1) it confers an improper benefit on the recruit; and 2) it creates undue influence that corrupts the recruiting process.

As far as the improper benefit, if you tell a recruit, I'll give your father 30k if you go here, I think most people would agree that an improper benefit was offered. Why shouldn't it be the same for handing a recruit's coach -- a father-figure for many players -- a lucrative assistant's job at a D-1 BB school?

The other problem is influence -- offering a coach an economic benefit is almost certainly going to skew the coach's opinion as far as college choices, and not for the good of the recruit. Again, if we're protecting the integrity of the recruiting process ... I don't see how buying a recruit's HS coach passes the sniff test.
 
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It's all legal, so who cares I guess. I do imagine that money changes hands indirectly though. It's probably just a way to funnel it to the player somehow.
 
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