The shame that is Kentucky Basketball

[bpo57]

Lets not go too far. A bachelors degree earns over $1 million more over their lifetime than a high school degree. A masters degree, over $1.5 million more. The value is real although the cost is crazy

No doubt from a historical perspective the odds were heavily in your favor if you had a bachelors or masters degree and the stats would support your contention. Not sure that the stats will be that strong in the coming years. The return on investment for a college education is flagging due to weaker job prospects and ever escalating tuition costs. I can point to mediocre colleges that will cost you well over $200K all in for a bachelors degree. Kids are coming out of those schools and are taking jobs that in many cases don't even require a college degree.

 

[bpo57]

College w the rampant inflation of tuition (and throw in the fact that many schools are almost favoring foreign born students over american born students) has become a scam imo. I have saved up the tuition $ for my son and when the time comes in a few years, i will give him the choice between college or taking that $ and starting his own business. Its his decision but i almost hope he decides to forgo college. The two scenarios i described, as a parent which scenario do you think you will see a better ROI? Its not a clear choice, its a tough call.

Agreed. I have a senior in High School. PURELY FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE I've thought what if I gave the senior $200 K upfront and had him put the money in a Vanguard S&P 500 index fund and then had him go learn some technical skills. Would he be ahead of the game FINANCIALLY after 20-30 years have passed? I think the answer depends in part on the nature of that particular person but I don't think it's a slam dunk decision like it used to be. I understand there are other considerations besides financial ones but I do think the dynamic has changed in recent years.

 

[Jack Hall]

Agreed. I have a senior in High School. PURELY FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE I've thought what if I gave the senior $200 K upfront and had him put the money in a Vanguard S&P 500 index fund and then had him go learn some technical skills. Would he be ahead of the game FINANCIALLY after 20-30 years have passed. I think the answer depends on the nature of that particular person but I don't think it's a slam dunk decision like it used to be. I understand there are other considerations besides financial ones but I do think the dynamic has changed in recent years.

Great post and you bring up a great scenario about a less expensive technical/trade degree and investing the balance. Believe me we are considering that as well, and as you say, the trick is obviously being able to read the nature of the individual. Good luck to us!

 

[OrlandoCuse]

No doubt from a historical perspective the odds were heavily in your favor if you had a bachelors or masters degree and the stats would support your contention. Not sure that the stats will be that strong in the coming years. The return on investment for a college education is flagging due to weaker job prospects and ever escalating tuition costs. I can point to mediocre colleges that will cost you well over $200K all in for a bachelors degree. Kids are coming out of those schools and are taking jobs that in many cases don't even require a college degree.

College degrees are still valuable, as long as they are still in a strenuous major. The problem is the addition of several "soft majors" in an effort to increase enrollment and keep kids in college. There's way too many majors out there nowadays. Way too many weak tracts that allow students to get a piece of paper but lacks in actually educating (preparing) the student for the real world. Degrees should be career prep.

 

[rrlbees]

Agreed. I have a senior in High School. PURELY FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE I've thought what if I gave the senior $200 K upfront and had him put the money in a Vanguard S&P 500 index fund and then had him go learn some technical skills. Would he be ahead of the game FINANCIALLY after 20-30 years have passed? I think the answer depends in part on the nature of that particular person but I don't think it's a slam dunk decision like it used to be. I understand there are other considerations besides financial ones but I do think the dynamic has changed in recent years.

Get your point but more of the money in that scenario night come on the back end and a yearly salary going through life might be less. Also, retirement benefits are hard to compare.

 

[bpo57]

College degrees are still valuable, as long as they are still in a strenuous major. The problem is the addition of several "soft majors" in an effort to increase enrollment and keep kids in college. There's way too many majors out there nowadays. Way too many weak tracts that allow students to get a piece of paper but lacks in actually educating (preparing) the student for the real world. Degrees should be career prep.

Agree 100%.

 

[bpo57]

Get your point but more of the money in that scenario night come on the back end and a yearly salary going through life might be less. Also, retirement benefits are hard to compare.

Many college grads will earn far more than the kid with the job with the technical skills. No doubt. But some will not and IMO a higher % will not than was the case in the past. I'm just saying college is not for everybody. CEOs say all of that time that well paying technical jobs go unfilled at their companies because young people don't have the appropriate skills to fill those jobs. Btw I'm not talking about a job paying $8.50 an hour. I'm talking about decent jobs. And if somebody had one of these jobs at a good company I don't know why they wouldn't have good benefits too.

 

[bpo57]

Great post and you bring up a great scenario about a less expensive technical/trade degree and investing the balance. Believe me we are considering that as well, and as you say, the trick is obviously being able to read the nature of the individual. Good luck to us!

Good luck to you too. I don't remember my parents worrying about my siblings and me the way I worry about my crew. Crazy. Of course it's an entirely different era.

 

[longtimefan]

Please... a college education isn't what it used to be. It's not the end all be all of education. It's more of a social experience than anything related to education.

It doesn't have to be. I know it's hard to convince 18-year-olds that it's important to take advantage of the educational experience (I raise my hand), but a significant number of them still do, especially foreign-born students.

 

[Ghost]

Agreed. I have a senior in High School. PURELY FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE I've thought what if I gave the senior $200 K upfront and had him put the money in a Vanguard S&P 500 index fund and then had him go learn some technical skills. Would he be ahead of the game FINANCIALLY after 20-30 years have passed? I think the answer depends in part on the nature of that particular person but I don't think it's a slam dunk decision like it used to be. I understand there are other considerations besides financial ones but I do think the dynamic has changed in recent years.

If that was your option, I'd give him the $200K. If he's moderately successful he would be ahead of the game - obviously the biggest opportunity he forgoes is the chance to be an extremely high earner. That $200K though...that's going to make up for it down the road.

It obviously matters to what extent he would be taking student loans out while in school as well. If you're paying for it all - well, the odds of being a high earner go up. Those loans can really derail a 22 year old - you can't take the same risks when you already have a huge debt payment. You may stay at a job merely because it pays well even if it limits your long-term potential because you need that money now, etc...

 

[NKR1978]

I really don't get the Cal hate. He is preparing his guys for life after college. It isn't his fault that his recruits are too good and are ready for a professional career.

If a drama major leaves school to star in a movie that's never whined about, yet somehow I'm supposed to feel bad about kids living their dream.

I'll never cheer for Kentucky (except against Georgetown or Storrs) but I kind of hope they win. Heads will explode and pearls will be clutched.

 

[jec1521]

Lets not go too far. A bachelors degree earns over $1 million more over their lifetime than a high school degree. A masters degree, over $1.5 million more. The value is real although the cost is crazy

20 years ago, sure. But those stats don't show what financial difference (positive or negative) college will have for the current generation. That has yet to be seen. And it isnt looking good.

 

[jekelish]

I honestly have no problem with what Cal does in terms of recruiting a lot of one and two year players. He's taking advantage of a system that enables him to do exactly that. Theoretically, any school in America could follow suit.

But I will say this: if Kentucky played in the ACC rather than the SEC, Kentucky would still win the conference, but I'm willing to bet they'd have 2-3 losses.

 

[AlaskaSU]

How about whether they are being educated or not? That is the question.

I have no idea if UK is actually making real learning an option for their players. I do know that bailing in the middle of your second semester on campus to go work out for the NBA does not further one's education. But, it's the system we're stuck with right now.

Very few schools provide an education, excluding the hard sciences, economics, business and accounting unless you call liberal indoctrination 'education'.

 

[longtimefan]

Very few schools provide an education, excluding the hard sciences, economics, business and accounting unless you call liberal indoctrination 'education'.

There's a discussion going on here that didn't need an injection of politics..

 

[longislandcuse]

I really don't get the Cal hate. He is preparing his guys for life after college. It isn't his fault that his recruits are too good and are ready for a professional career.

If a drama major leaves school to star in a movie that's never whined about, yet somehow I'm supposed to feel bad about kids living their dream.

I'll never cheer for Kentucky (except against Georgetown or Storrs) but I kind of hope they win. Heads will explode and pearls will be clutched.

I don't hate Cal but it's pretty easy to understand the UK/Cal hate especially from a Syracuse fan when we just got raped with sanctions for some bs meanwhile UK is doing whatever the they want and owning the NCAA. All the while they get drooled over by ESPN nonstop as Cal gives his stupid speeches about how young they are.

 

[longislandcuse]

Now I get to watch UK and their fans get all hyped up against the worst team ever in a conference semi finals with their 2 tallest players suspended.

 

[Quazzum69]

So UK seems pre-destined to go undefeated and win another championship. They will probably go down as "one of the best teams of all time" unless they are upset along the way. If Calipari put together a team the "right way" then I would actually have no problem rooting for them to win it all and go undefeated. However, UK isn't doing it the right way. In fact, they represent everything that is wrong with college basketball. UK is nothing but a basketball mill with a soul purpose of winning championships, everything else related to college be damned.

Here's some facts about Calipari's reign at UK since 2009:

• Only two players that were signed in Calipari recruited classes since 2009 graduated from UK
• One of the graduates (Eloy Vargas) was a junior college transfer so he only played for 2 years at UK
• The only player signed in a Calipari recruiting class at UK that played for 4 years and graduated from UK was Jon Hood (yes, that's right, Jon Hood - if people are interested, Mr. Hood appeared in a total of 86 games in his UK career logging a total of 425 minutes, scoring a grand total of 95 points in his career)
• A total of 31 recruits have been signed by Cal from 2009 to 2014 (average of 5.2 per class)
• 11 of the 31 recruits are still on the team, making up the current UK roster
• 3 players transferred to other schools after playing at least 1 year at UK
• 1 player never arrived (Enes Kanter)
• Only three players have played more than two years for UK (Jon Hood, Alex Poythress and Willie Cauley-Stein)
• No recruited player on the current roster is eligible to graduate this year
• 14 early entry NBA draftees (plus another 5+ likely this year)

Take that all in as we sit on the sidelines watching the NCAA tourney this year and will be forced to deal with reductions in scholarships over the next 5 years.

And...? How many Syracuse players have graduated since 2009? Seven or eight more than Kentucky's two? Outrage!

Nobody cares except for old people that think these kids are really student athletes or bitter people that are jealous of UK's/Calipari's teams.

These players would all be leaving early if they went to other schools but they all happen to be concentrated at Kentucky because Cal is a good coach and recruiter and understands these players' wants and needs (not bash them about leaving early in public).

 

[SWC75]

So UK seems pre-destined to go undefeated and win another championship. They will probably go down as "one of the best teams of all time" unless they are upset along the way. If Calipari put together a team the "right way" then I would actually have no problem rooting for them to win it all and go undefeated. However, UK isn't doing it the right way. In fact, they represent everything that is wrong with college basketball. UK is nothing but a basketball mill with a soul purpose of winning championships, everything else related to college be damned.

Here's some facts about Calipari's reign at UK since 2009:

• Only two players that were signed in Calipari recruited classes since 2009 graduated from UK
• One of the graduates (Eloy Vargas) was a junior college transfer so he only played for 2 years at UK
• The only player signed in a Calipari recruiting class at UK that played for 4 years and graduated from UK was Jon Hood (yes, that's right, Jon Hood - if people are interested, Mr. Hood appeared in a total of 86 games in his UK career logging a total of 425 minutes, scoring a grand total of 95 points in his career)
• A total of 31 recruits have been signed by Cal from 2009 to 2014 (average of 5.2 per class)
• 11 of the 31 recruits are still on the team, making up the current UK roster
• 3 players transferred to other schools after playing at least 1 year at UK
• 1 player never arrived (Enes Kanter)
• Only three players have played more than two years for UK (Jon Hood, Alex Poythress and Willie Cauley-Stein)
• No recruited player on the current roster is eligible to graduate this year
• 14 early entry NBA draftees (plus another 5+ likely this year)

Take that all in as we sit on the sidelines watching the NCAA tourney this year and will be forced to deal with reductions in scholarships over the next 5 years.

And more schools will likely be trying to do the same thing because it worked. What did our supposedly more laudable approach get us?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Just pointing out we haven't played UK since 2000 and cal since 2008 #obsessed.

 

[bpo57]

If that was your option, I'd give him the $200K. If he's moderately successful he would be ahead of the game - obviously the biggest opportunity he forgoes is the chance to be an extremely high earner. That $200K though...that's going to make up for it down the road.

It obviously matters to what extent he would be taking student loans out while in school as well. If you're paying for it all - well, the odds of being a high earner go up. Those loans can really derail a 22 year old - you can't take the same risks when you already have a huge debt payment. You may stay at a job merely because it pays well even if it limits your long-term potential because you need that money now, etc...

I hear ya. Excellent points.

 

[NKR1978]

I don't hate Cal but it's pretty easy to understand the UK/Cal hate especially from a Syracuse fan when we just got raped with sanctions for some bs meanwhile UK is doing whatever the they want and owning the NCAA. All the while they get drooled over by ESPN nonstop as Cal gives his stupid speeches about how young they are.

I haven't seen anyone prove anything that Cal pays players.

 

[690West]

20 years ago, sure. But those stats don't show what financial difference (positive or negative) college will have for the current generation. That has yet to be seen. And it isnt looking good.

2 years ago. I'll be sending my son to college. It's down to Princeton or Lemoyne right now. His choice

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I hire a lot of entry level people for my company. I can spot a mile away the kids that are the same person after college that they were in highschool. Really easy to tell the difference between them and the kids that actually tried to learn something. I'll talk a chance on the kids that want to learn. The other ones aren't worth the gamble.

 

[HoustonCuse]

What Calipari is doing is clearly within the rules, I just wish the media would quit putting them on a pedastal as some virtuous paradigm of college athletics when they're really nothing more than a barnstorming pre-NBA all-star team.

They're the Wildcats, so it would appear that the media is putting the p u s s y on a pedestal.