The statistical oddity that is Adrian Flemming's senior season

[CIL]

Marrone had a hard on for big bodied receivers. His system called for a ton of slants, hitches, and intermediate routes. He pretty much believed (and rightfully so) he could scheme them open and wanted bigger receivers to be able to withstand the hits and pounding.

Unfortunately for us, we aren't getting the Julio Jones type of big receivers. Guys like Flemming, Lewis, Cornelius, even West aren't really creators in space. Their skill set isn't that condusive in a spread type system.

 

[Millhouse]

I do too, but he's only one guy. We need more. He'll end up getting hurt or have some other issue and we'll go from bad to hopeless. (assuming as he gets older and better he helps get us out of our current state of helplessness). You would think a healthy Estime, a healthy Ishmael, a healthy Phillips, we have some people who can do some damage. Doesn't turn us into Baylor, but shouldn't be this 100-200 yard sh!tshow by any means.

not sure how many we'll need in lester's offense, unfortunately

worried they're going to leave us behind the eightball when they all get sh!tcanned next year

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Marrone had a hard on for big bodied receivers. His system called for a ton of slants, hitches, and intermediate routes. He pretty much believed (and rightfully so) he could scheme them open and wanted bigger receivers to be able to withstand the hits and pounding.

Unfortunately for us, we aren't getting the Julio Jones type of big receivers. Guys like Flemming, Lewis, Cornelius, even West aren't really creators in space. Their skill set isn't that condusive in a spread type system.

West would have been a TE at Stanford

 

[OttoinGrotto]

not sure how many we'll need in lester's offense, unfortunately

worried they're going to leave us behind the eightball when they all get sh!tcanned next year

Pfft. IF that happens we'll just fill the roster holes with JUCOs, and it'll be all better.

 

[Crusty]

Marrone had a hard on for big bodied receivers. His system called for a ton of slants, hitches, and intermediate routes. He pretty much believed (and rightfully so) he could scheme them open and wanted bigger receivers to be able to withstand the hits and pounding.

Unfortunately for us, we aren't getting the Julio Jones type of big receivers. Guys like Flemming, Lewis, Cornelius, even West aren't really creators in space. Their skill set isn't that condusive in a spread type system.

How I miss those slants, hitches and intermediate routes!

 

[Finwad32]

I really like Cornelius.
Lewis is going to make a fine possession guy with plenty of blocking ability.
Ishmael will be, IMO, a top tier guy by the time he's done here.
AB I put no stock in at this point, whatever comes from him next year is a bonus.
Bristly Estime has the ability to be the spark plug and make plays in space, gotta stay healthy though.
Quinta Funderburke - an anomaly. The only way I can explain it is he must be his own worst enemy. I dont know why else.
Avant/Enoicy/Custis - I dont know enough about any of them to make a prediction. Avant strikes me as a possession guy in a smaller body. Custis should have limitless potential if we put him in the right position. Enoicy, I've got nothing for you.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Guys like Flemming, Lewis, Cornelius, even West aren't really creators in space. Their skill set isn't that condusive in a spread type system.

Good take. I wondered if the opposite might be true with Lewis. There were times this year where he looked like our best YAC option, by far.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Weird career overall.

His biggest contribution might have been blowing his redshirt year in 2010 when we were incredibly injury depleted, and playing a few snaps at WR during a critical game against Rutgers where he registered ZERO receptions, but drew a key pass interference call that kept a scoring drive alive and helped us achieve bowl eligibility.

Glad he was able to bounce back after so many injuries and find a way to at least contribute in some way, but as you point out the projection just wasn't there.

Wasn't he also the target for the goal line interception that bounced off his chest when we called a pass play from the freaking 2 yard line or am I confusing him with another rarely played WR?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Wasn't he also the target for the goal line interception that bounced off his chest when we called a pass play from the freaking 2 yard line or am I confusing him with another rarely played WR?

No, that was Foster I think.

 

[Millhouse]

Guys like Flemming, Lewis, Cornelius, even West aren't really creators in space. Their skill set isn't that condusive in a spread type system.

what system would be for flemming and cornelius?

 

[ImperialOrange]

No, that was Foster I think.

I couldn't remember, I just remember thinking "why the hell are we passing... and why to a WR we never use?! Oh look, a pick!" This happened right in front of me in the dome as well so I can't even repress the memory.

 

[RF2044]

Wasn't he also the target for the goal line interception that bounced off his chest when we called a pass play from the freaking 2 yard line or am I confusing him with another rarely played WR?

That was Foster. It was also the following year [2011].

 

[CIL]

what system would be for flemming and cornelius?

Ditch digging :noidea:

In all seriousness, I'm not sure what you are getting at and may have missed something. Flemming is 6'4" 210 and Cornelius is 6'1" 200. I'm not sure the could make Ivan Foy miss in the open field.

 

[KaiserUEO]

The most frustrating thing for me about him is his inability to play the ball. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a pass underthrown to him that he just stands there rather than move forward and prevent a pass breakup/int from happening.

That's one of the things I really like about Ishmael, he does a great job of playing the ball.

This drives me crazy! Hey, the ball wasn't thrown right into my hands. I'm only 6'4 and 200 pounds, how could I possibly do anything to make a play on the... oh it was picked. Nothing to see here. Hate it! I've seen him and a couple other guys on our team just watch the ball get picked/swatted. How is this not being coached! Make a play on the damn ball!

he must be watching & learning from the game film of the Giants from the last 3 years.

with ODB's intended passes edited out.

 

[Millhouse]

Ditch digging :noidea:

In all seriousness, I'm not sure what you are getting at and may have missed something. Flemming is 6'4" 210 and Cornelius is 6'1" 200. I'm not sure the could make Ivan Foy miss in the open field.

for cornelius and flemming to be an argument against going spread, there must be some other offense they're more suited to

 

[rrlbees]

I couldn't remember, I just remember thinking "why the hell are we passing... and why to a WR we never use?! Oh look, a pick!" This happened right in front of me in the dome as well so I can't even repress the memory.

And he was a true frosh.

 

[anomander]

Marrone had a hard on for big bodied receivers. His system called for a ton of slants, hitches, and intermediate routes. He pretty much believed (and rightfully so) he could scheme them open and wanted bigger receivers to be able to withstand the hits and pounding.

Unfortunately for us, we aren't getting the Julio Jones type of big receivers. Guys like Flemming, Lewis, Cornelius, even West aren't really creators in space. Their skill set isn't that condusive in a spread type system.

It seems that Shafer has kept this practice of recruiting big bodied wr's (Ish,Custis, Enoicy, KJ), but we are no longer running those slants, hitches, and intermediate routes. Then all a sudden our offense seemed to emphasize getting playmakers the ball in space. What was I missing here with the reasoning to remain recruiting bigger wr's ?

 

[CIL]

It seems that Shafer has kept this practice of recruiting big bodied wr's (Ish,Custis, Enoicy, KJ), but we are no longer running those slants, hitches, and intermediate routes. Then all a sudden our offense seemed to emphasize getting playmakers the ball in space. What was I missing here with the reasoning to remain recruiting bigger wr's ?

Custis and Enoicy were really recruited as a move TE. The idea there is to create mismatches against LB's or safeties. I think both are good players and could play WR as well. Ish was recruited because he is fuggin good. We'll never know the story on KJ. I have heard he may have been a S or LB here. His defensive film was very good.

 

[anomander]

Custis and Enoicy were really recruited as a move TE. The idea there is to create mismatches against LB's or safeties. I think both are good players and could play WR as well. Ish was recruited because he is fuggin good. We'll never know the story on KJ. I have heard he may have been a S or LB here. His defensive film was very good.

Interesting. Wonder what happens with Enoicy and Custis now?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Interesting. Wonder what happens with Enoicy and Custis now?

Somewhat unrelated - do we know if Custis is joining the hoops team? I remember that had been talked about.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Despite the fact that Bees says he's a great blocker, which I haven't looked to see is correct, I am ecstatic that he will not be here next year and that his reps will go to someone who will be more durable and more effective at freaking catching the ball for positive yards. I'll trade you a Senior Flemming right now for a Sophomore Custis or RSF Enoicy. I was one of West's biggest critics before this year and I have to eat crow on that one and say I loved that kid by year's end. Ishmael will in my opinion go down as the best WR ever at SU. Estime back healthy next year. We'll see what Broyld has in him. Custis, Enoicy, Yukon. We've got plenty of targets that should catch a hell of a lot more passes than Flemming did this year.

 

[Ottoble]

I can't understand not using Cornelius! The staff hasn't proven a penchant for using personnel correctly from what I've been observing. Something I hope they greatly improve on for next season.

Agreed in several cases.

 

[Dcuse]

Can somebody confirm that Flemming caught his 1st career pass at SU from Chuck Zimmerman and his last ( and 3rd in his career) from AJ Long?

 

[reedny]

I'd replace "weird" with "extremely disappointing/woefully inadequate". Those are numbers that talented (opposing) wideouts run up on us in a single game -- I think Green had about that many receiving yards against us in the Fla. St. game, for example.

 

[money3189]

Never been a big fan of flemming as a player, wasnt highly recruited and it showed throughout his career but I am a fan of his character. Never heard anything negative about him, coaches loved him, thats why he was invited back for a 5th year. He never got going this year though. Im sure he would have been more serviceable if he has a guy like Nassib at QB. We never got the chance to see what he can bring to the table. Like previosly stated, the PI call he got against Rutgers that year was big. Wont forget him for that. Hope the best for him, he will represent SU well in his future endeavors