The Talk

[M2MPrinciples]

We have too many shooting guards heading into next season: Westry, Starling, Cuffe and Moore. And not a single PG in waiting. In theory if Judah leaves Copeland can shift to PG and spend the offseason transitioning but at this point I wouldn't feel great about it. So a portal PG makes the most sense there.

We also somehow have 4 guys 6'11" or taller but not a single one capable of playing more than 10-12 minutes. Maybe Carey makes a leap but if not that's almost as concerning if not moreso.

 

[br801]

Players we need to replace next year ---

Mintz (NBA)
Cuffe
Bell
Taylor
McLeod
Benny
Patterson
Carey
Copeland
Hima

These players are either too one-dimensional to be a big-time P5 starter or too inconsistent. I understand that we will not turn the roster over that much but that is who needs to be replaced...

If they want to stay they need to be recruited over and be open to an off-the-bench role otherwise peace.

Foundation for next year

JJ - Westry - Brown - Freeman - Moore

I predict you will be very disappointed.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Westry at 3.

IDK seems as likely Westry will not play at all as play. Some guys are snake-bit. If he does play, can’t say he will be close to what people are fantasying he will be.
Bell should be a 3-pt specialist off the bench. If he is hot, ride him. If not, take him out.
Taylor’s confidence is just shot. Feel badly for him. I had hopes.
Cuffe bring defense. Unsure what else.
McCloud, who knows?

When healthy, Hima can be a positive off the bench.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

It feels like Westry is a more polished Q and Q is a more athletic (higher ceiling) version of Westry. It will be fun to have both going forward

How would you know what he will look like? There is no way to (reasonably) have a guess.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We have too many shooting guards heading into next season: Westry, Starling, Cuffe and Moore. And not a single PG in waiting. In theory if Judah leaves Copeland can shift to PG and spend the offseason transitioning but at this point I wouldn't feel great about it. So a portal PG makes the most sense there.

We also somehow have 4 guys 6'11" or taller but not a single one capable of playing more than 10-12 minutes. Maybe Carey makes a leap but if not that's almost as concerning if not moreso.

The problem is: #1 may never play again or may be a shell of his HS self; #2 seems to be rounding into form, but still inconsistent; #3 can’t shoot, and #4, tbd. (Seems like Moore will be good, but we’ve seen this movie before.)

 

[MamesJungro]

I have no idea if I missed info, but it's my understanding that nothing acute happened to McLeod's foot; it just hurt a lot until they shut him down. 7'4" guys with chronic foot injuries don't tend to keep playing very long - are we sure he will even be able to play?

 

[phil77]

I predict you will be very disappointed.

Oh of course but the bar is set so low now this is an acceptable roster at Syracuse "that just needs a few tweaks" and has been for years now. If you want to look at the reason why the problem has fallen off this past decade it has nothing to do with coaching but it has everything to do with the roster. These players just aren't good enough to compete at the level Syracuse was at or wants to be at.

 

[Orangefizz]

Westry at 3.

I don’t think Red will be counting on Westry as the starting 3 after not playing for two years.

 

[orangecuse]

We have too many shooting guards heading into next season: Westry, Starling, Quadir, Cuffe and Moore. In theory if Judah leaves Copeland can shift to PG and spend the offseason transitioning but at this point I wouldn't feel great about it. So a portal PG makes the most sense there.

We also somehow have 4 guys 6'11" or taller but not a single one capable of playing more than 10-12 minutes. Maybe Carey makes a leap but if not that's almost as concerning if not moreso.

The center spot has been so problematic for us for some time now. All of those JB misses on the recruiting trail continues to linger. This isn't anything new. We played Lydon at the 5, Merek, etc., it has been a joke. Now, we are forced to play Brown and Benny there...and the beat goes on.

I realize we unexpectedly lost Jesse, but some folks made him out to be all world, which he wasn't, especially against stiffer and more physical competition. Not to mention, it took him a long time for him to develop to where he could be reliable/somewhat consistently producing.

I also recall how his former coach repeatedly threw him under the bus about his inconsistencies, lack of prowess, production, etc. Until, of course, after fracturing his wrist and then JB conveniently went with if we had Jesse, we'd be in the tourney...yada, yada, yada.

Overall point being, our lack of a viable P5 level center is, and has been, a problem for us for quite a while.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Oh of course but the bar is set so low now this is an acceptable roster at Syracuse "that just needs a few tweaks" and has been for years now. If you want to look at the reason why the problem has fallen off this past decade it has nothing to do with coaching but it has everything to do with the roster. These players just aren't good enough to compete at the level Syracuse was at or wants to be at.

Ehhh, I think you’re overreacting. If you want this many guys to transfer then you could have made the case for a lot of guys on our great teams a decade ago after their freshman and sophomore years.

 

[JimBoston]

In the long run, what kind of offense and defense does Red want to run? Clearly, he has moved on from Boeheim's system, but most of the players were recruited for the old system. Red needs to recruit to his system and then develop those players. I don't think he wanted to take the Pitino path and blow up the roster which meant showing meaningful improvement was going to take longer, but it would help build a culture. I think he is taking the Danny Hurley path. Slowly bring in players and build his culture. Remember, Hurley was 16-17 and 19-12 his first 2 seasons and he didn't make an NCAA tournament until year 3. I hope everyone has patience.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This thread is bananas, and really strayed from the OPs point.

Not every game result is a referendum on the program.

We had a bad game. Nobody outside of Judah played well.

We definitely, definitely have problems on this roster.

But we're not going to see a massive roster overhaul. Freeman and Moore are the reinforcements. We'll see whatever becomes of Westry. There will probably be a little portal action.

 

[jdubs30]

Taylor came here as a 2 and now he’s having to guard the 4 every night no matter the size difference. I do wonder if the physicality he’s having to exert on the defensive end, plus he’s being asked to rebound (which he’s doing a good job at).

I thought Taylor would be a 2. And I could see a future season (here or elsewhere) where he’s a starting 2G, averaging 16ppg and 8rpg - once he fixes his shot I think uou can see the potential. I do question if he’s quick enough to guard opposing 2s. But he’d be a very strong a physical 2 guards.

I’d be open to havjng JT back but he has to be a 3 or 2

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Taylor came here as a 2 and now he’s having to guard the 4 every night no matter the size difference. I do wonder if the physicality he’s having to exert on the defensive end, plus he’s being asked to rebound (which he’s doing a good job at).

I thought Taylor would be a 2. And I could see a future season (here or elsewhere) where he’s a starting 2G, averaging 16ppg and 8rpg - once he fixes his shot I think uou can see the potential. I do question if he’s quick enough to guard opposing 2s. But he’d be a very strong a physical 2 guards.

I’d be open to havjng JT back but he has to be a 3 or 2

Taylor's problems on offense would be the same if he were getting guard minutes.

 

[Doc5120]

Players we need to replace next year ---

Mintz (NBA)
Cuffe
Bell
Taylor
McLeod
Benny
Patterson
Carey
Copeland
Hima

These players are either too one-dimensional to be a big-time P5 starter or too inconsistent. I understand that we will not turn the roster over that much but that is who needs to be replaced...

If they want to stay they need to be recruited over and be open to an off-the-bench role otherwise peace.

Foundation for next year

JJ - Westry - Brown - Freeman - Moore

This seems a bit excessive to me. You have 10 guys who need replacing and only 1 for a good reason (Mintz to NBA/pros). Bell, Benny & Copeland do not need replacing. Copeland is a starter. Bell can be a great shooter. Benny we take the good with the bad. The expectation that we can and/or need 10 high level players is a bit crazy. 1 to 2 players can literally change the makeup of an entire basketball team.

We have 2 main problems as I see it:

1) The center position. We consistently recruit projects. Numerous guys who we as fans know will never amount to anything. We've been doing this for years. Hima, Carey, Patterson and even McLeod all fit that mold.

2) We lack outside shooting. Bell, when open can be deadly. We need another reliable guy on the court to help with spacing and open things up even more for guys like Judah & JJ.

If we can address these 2 things, I think we can have a quality team that is squarely in the tournament with something along the lines of a 6-9 seed.

 

[phil77]

Ehhh, I think you’re overreacting. If you want this many guys to transfer then you could have made the case for a lot of guys on our great teams a decade ago after their freshman and sophomore years.

Look I listed 10 players and said multiple times that all 10 will not leave just those 10 players can/should be replaced. Of course, all 10 won't leave.

We need a starting PG a starting SF and a starting C in the portal. And the PG and SF need to be shooters. And all three need to be high level P5 starting caliber players. Not third-string centers from Florida State.

Portal PG - JJ - Portal SF - Freeman/Brown - Portal C

Bench - Westry - Freeman/Brown - Moore - and then whoever is left over from the team that wants to be demoted.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Look I listed 10 players and said multiple times that all 10 will not leave just those 10 players can/should be replaced. Of course, all 10 won't leave.

We need a starting PG a starting SF and a starting C in the portal. And the PG and SF need to be shooters. And all three need to be high level P5 starting caliber players. Not third-string centers from Florida State.

Portal PG - JJ - Portal SF - Freeman/Brown - Portal C

Bench - Westry - Freeman/Brown - Moore - and then whoever is left over from the team that wants to be demoted.

We have 3 guaranteed starters already next year in Brown, Freeman and Starling. Brown or Freeman aren’t starting on the bench.

 

[dasher]

3 of those names have never played in an SU uniform or set foot in college. Lots of speculation.

The one thing almost everyone agrees on is the need for a portal SF. This is Syracuse. We're offering a starting position. We should aim for something higher than glue.

First, we haven't been anything special for a very long time. We aren't that Syracuse right now. Second, I think our idea of a glue guy are very different. The glue guy can be the difference between winning and losing. Someone that can hit a 3. Someone that can grab a rebound. Someone that can handle the ball against pressure. Someone that understands the game of basketball. Sign me up for that all day long.

 

[Marty McFly]

what this team lacks the most is a leader when things go sideways, that's the biggest missing ingredient this year IMHO. Maybe we have that and don't have the pieces to execute well when the chips are down as well, but I have never seen more apathy from a team once they are in a hole against a decent squad.

 

[FrancoPizza]

what this team lacks the most is a leader when things go sideways, that's the biggest missing ingredient this year IMHO. Maybe we have that and don't have the pieces to execute well when the chips are down as well, but I have never seen more apathy from a team once they are in a hole against a decent squad.

I wonder if guaranteed NIL $ is contributing to complacency. Win or lose they still get their money.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

I have never seen more apathy from a team once they are in a hole against a decent squad.

I'd really like to get Red's take on this trend. Judah and JJ play 35+ minutes most nights, as has Maliq since Naheem went down; Are they gassed? What role does conditioning play, knowing that Red's style requires a different level of intensity and movement than Boeheim's did and that Judah's style specifically involves so much contact?

I know our talent level hasn't been where it needs to be, but I don't think it's that simple because FSU, UVA, Gonzaga and Tenn aren't especially talented, at least not in terms of HS pedigree. Obviously Duke and UNC are. Benny and Bell have exhibited troubling body language when we've gotten down and Benny might be a lost cause in that regard. I'm hopeful for Red but whatever he's tried to help them stay focused through adversity hasn't worked.

 

[ar inj]

Last night Judah was gassed. When he hit the wall the whole team fell apart.

 

[Madbiker]

I doubt Benny is back next year. He's going to lose most of his PT to Freeman. Very likely he will portal.

 

[miamicuse]

What makes you think the program has the upper hand in these talks?

Is there a long line of better players waiting in line to come join the cuse that we need some the slots for?

The program have been on a downward slide for years. We are simply not relevant nationally anymore. We kind of lived on the largest BB attendance and a HOFer coach for a while and those are no longer primary considerations for many recruits. Fewer and fewer players who grew up "always wanted to play for the orange".

NIL and the portal has changed the game forever. You simply can't operate with the mindset of "we will keep A B C D E players and replace G H I with better players". At the end of every year is the musical chairs all over the game, it's more likely then not that the players you want to keep are either testing for NBA waters despite not being ready or asking for more NIL money that the coaches are trying to arrange, and then you are half a dozen players who left other programs who have expressed interests because they do not fit their former programs and may or may not fit here but you have to roll the dices on because you don't know who might end up staying or leaving.

The end result is everyone is probably going to get a talk, then will be like 2 months of chaos.

 

[NorSyr66]

.what this team lacks the most is a leader when things go sideways, that's the biggest missing ingredient this year IMHO. Maybe we have that and don't have the pieces to execute well when the chips are down as well, but I have never seen more apathy from a team once they are in a hole against a decent squad.

I tend to agree with your post and would like to add it is so evident when this team gets down, they seem to roll over and quit. Look at our losses, all by rather sizable margins. The body language displays a beaten image. Maybe a vocal leader could spark the team? Red tries to pull strings but it appears most players are simply going through the motions with little drive to win once we get behind. The spirit seems to be there when we are winning or playing even up but once the hole starts to deepen, we shut down? Real head scratcher!