They also serve who only stand and wait: John Milton and ACC

[rrlbees]

Damn no takers..

Because Frank is as much a blowhard as all of then.

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[Orangepace]

I think everyone subscribes too much power to the B1G and the PAC 12. The PAC 12 has no logical additions. If you believe as I do that Texas and Oklahoma are just not going to the PAC12 that doesn't leave that many options. I don't believe this is necessarily true. They are either SEC or Pac-12 bound, but won't know until one or the other acts. I think that's when the final chips will begin to fall.

If the B1G could take anyone they wanted why the hell take RU and MD right out of the box? They took the schools that they could get - not the schools they wanted. ND has always nixed the notion of joining a regional conference especially the B1G and they just proved that theory. B1G was responding to the ND commitment to the ACC. They basically did everything ND would have wanted short of Pitt and ND still thumbed their nose. MD was an attempt to destabilize the ACC. They also anticipated bringing along one of UNC or UVA. Neither jumped after MD had already committed and went public, out of necessity, and so they needed to grab one more to get to 14. They couldn't make 13 work, so they took the best of the leftovers. They likely also anticipated that once they made a move to 14, the SEC/B12 would make a play for ACC teams, thus dismantling the ACC, and leaving ND out in the cold asking for forgiveness. They "splashed the pot," only they ACC flopped the nut straight.

The SEC is the wild card in this deal and it is quite possible that they think there is no reason to split the pie more ways than they have to - if it ain't broke... You give the SEC too much credit for their collective IQ.

Seems to me for the ACC the end game is longer term. Nobody is starving (now that MD is gone) and they can afford to plan for the long term. The ACC has the population and the demographics and if they play their cards right they will have a hugely successful conference in the future. These folks are not stupid and the only way they break up is if they can't see their way clear to a huge long term. This I somewhat agree with... The only real thing that will lock the ACC up long term is if they can negotiate/finalize a TV/Digital deal before the SEC/Pac12 decide to make their next/final moves. If the ACC can eclipse the B12 in revenue/team and significantly close the gap with the SEC, the B12 likely dies and the ACC sweeps up the leftovers after the SEC/Pac12/B1G takes the top of the leftovers. Even that might not happen without losing a few ACC gems.

Interesting take, but few things related to your points in bold.

 

[Crusty]

Apparently, we agree that B1G took what they could get rather than what they really wanted. However, I don't subscribe to the notion that Delaney's move was out of spite and to force ND into his arms. That is just too far fetched a theory. He is a businessman and that would be a foolish move. I think he simply moved to plan B when ND went to the ACC. Also don't believe any other conference controls the ACC's destiny.
You may be right about the SEC IQ.

 

[CU44SE]

After Thinking about it, does anyone think that the B1G's first choices were Rutgirls and Maryland? It does not make sense, they are 2 of the most cash strapped athletic departments in the country. Yes they are in densly populated areas, but it doesnt seem like the B1G thing to do after adding Nebraska? Missouri wasn't good enough for them, but Rutgirls and Maryland were? The B1G has always gone for programs, and so it would only make sense if they were turned down by some of the bigger names in the ACC like UNC, GT, FSU, etc. These schools are not only big programs, but also have a good viewing population. These are 2 desperate schools, Rutgirls would have accepted an invitation from any conference and Maryland needs money yesterday. Maryland is not looking towards the future, they are only looking at what will help them right now and that is the B1G money.

 

[kirbivore]

Good work Arb, haven't had time to digest frank the tank.

Don't bother. He's a hack just like the WVU clowns.

 

[OrangePA]

I think everyone subscribes too much power to the B1G and the PAC 12. The PAC 12 has no logical additions. If you believe as I do that Texas and Oklahoma are just not going to the PAC12 that doesn't leave that many options.

If the B1G could take anyone they wanted why the hell take RU and MD right out of the box? They took the schools that they could get - not the schools they wanted. ND has always nixed the notion of joining a regional conference especially the B1G and they just proved that theory.

The SEC is the wild card in this deal and it is quite possible that they think there is no reason to split the pie more ways than they have to - if it ain't broke...

Seems to me for the ACC the end game is longer term. Nobody is starving (now that MD is gone) and they can afford to plan for the long term. The ACC has the population and the demographics and if they play their cards right they will have a hugely successful conference in the future. These folks are not stupid and the only way they break up is if they can't see their way clear to a huge long term.

I think this post is where I am on this issue.

Long term I think demographics favor the ACC.

I think the conference not only survives but flourishes.

 

[Alsacs]

The key to this whole expansion is North Carolina, and the article by Frank is 100% right. North Carolina is the Texas of the ACC, and they aren't going to leave being the Kings of the ACC to become bishops or knights in the B1G or SEC. While the B1G or SEC could poach other ACC teams other than UNC neither conference wants to make the first move without UNC because then the other conference would be in a position to take UNC and UVA. Thus, its a game of chicken between the B1G and SEC and if UNC decides the extra money is worth giving up their power then the ACC is screwed, but I think UNC will be happy with power so long as they aren't making significantly money less than the other conferences. I would rather be the King fish of a decent sized pond rather than medium sized fish in the biggest pond. I just hope Swofford knows what he is doing creating an alliance with the Big XII.

 

[DoctorBombay]

The key to this whole expansion is North Carolina, and the article by Frank is 100% right. North Carolina is the Texas of the ACC, and they aren't going to leave being the Kings of the ACC to become bishops or knights in the B1G or SEC. While the B1G or SEC could poach other ACC teams other than UNC neither conference wants to make the first move without UNC because then the other conference would be in a position to take UNC and UVA. Thus, its a game of chicken between the B1G and SEC and if UNC decides the extra money is worth giving up their power then the ACC is screwed, but I think UNC will be happy with power so long as they aren't making significantly money less than the other conferences. I would rather be the King fish of a decent sized pond rather than medium sized fish in the biggest pond. I just hope Swofford knows what he is doing creating an alliance with the Big XII.

What's most obvious in realignment is that each conference has its Alpha males.
PAC- Oregon, USC, maybe UCLA, Stanford.
B1G- OSU, Michigan
SEC- Bama, UF, maybe UK
Big12- Texas...then OU...and maybe, KU
ACC- UNC, Duke, maybe FSU and UM when they are good in ftball.
These are not necessarily the "best" programs, but the most indispensable to any conference.
SU was the Alpha in the BE, IMO, since losing us was the final straw to maintain stability. Regardless of our ftball stature at the time, losing SU doomed the BEast, psychologically.
With that said- UNC is NEVER...I repeat, NEVER, going to leave the ACC.
They'll watch FSU, GT, etc. go if they want- but here in Carolina, it would be sacrilege.
Just like Bama, or WVU, who represent more than just athletics, these folks IDENTIFY with UNC...its in the societal DNA.
To think they'd give that up to join w/ KSU, and ISU, and Baylor...or go mano-a-man with Texas, is unrealistic.
Even the SEC/B1G offer would have to be because the ACC is on life support- and as long as ND is there to shore them up along w/ the new arrivals, the ACC will be just fine...regardless of who defects.
THAT'S what the WVU sock-puppets don't seem to, or want to comprehend.

 

[Guinness]

Don't bother. He's a hack just like the WVU clowns.

I don't think that is a fair comparison because Frank is not trying to break news or be an insider like the WVU clowns are. He is simply trying to analyze what we know and what potentially might happen.

 

[Alsacs]

What's most obvious in realignment is that each conference has its Alpha males.
PAC- Oregon, USC, maybe UCLA, Stanford.
B1G- OSU, Michigan
SEC- Bama, UF, maybe UK
Big12- Texas...then OU...and maybe, KU
ACC- UNC, Duke, maybe FSU and UM when they are good in ftball.
These are not necessarily the "best" programs, but the most indispensable to any conference.
SU was the Alpha in the BE, IMO, since losing us was the final straw to maintain stability. Regardless of our ftball stature at the time, losing SU doomed the BEast, psychologically.
With that said- UNC is NEVER...I repeat, NEVER, going to leave the ACC.
They'll watch FSU, GT, etc. go if they want- but here in Carolina, it would be sacrilege.
Just like Bama, or WVU, who represent more than just athletics, these folks IDENTIFY with UNC...its in the societal DNA.
To think they'd give that up to join w/ KSU, and ISU, and Baylor...or go mano-a-man with Texas, is unrealistic.
Even the SEC/B1G offer would have to be because the ACC is on life support- and as long as ND is there to shore them up along w/ the new arrivals, the ACC will be just fine...regardless of who defects.
THAT'S what the WVU sock-puppets don't seem to, or want to comprehend.

I think everybody knows WVU fans are FOS and just want to create instability for self-preservation. I agree with most of your alpha dogs comparisons
B1G- alpha dogs are clearly Michigan and Ohio State
SEC- Florida and Alabama.
Big XII- is Texas all by themselves while Oklahoma has national juice, Texas owns Oklahoma.
Pac-12 its USC
ACC- its North Carolina who is the alpha dog.
The SEC/B1G obviously want to position themselves as viable options for North Carolina, and UNC isn't going to give up their power unless the ACC is FUBAR. The Big XII admitted it doesn't have the juice to add 2 ACC teams when the Commish admitted the 2 new schools have to bring 26 million each in value to the conference. Florida State and Clemson aren't worth 26 million each to the Big XII contract, and while the K-State's, Iowa State's of the world would want to add Clemson and Florida State for future stability for them the big dog in the conference Texas isn't going to green light Clemson and Florida to the Big XII and take less money and have a potential conference championship game from making the new 4 team playoffs. Thus, the Big XII isn't expanding unless a Notre Dame wants to join for football which they won't now. Thus, the B1G and SEC will play a game of chicken. Honestly, I think neither conference expands into the ACC footprint without UNC coming on board as it would cause the other conference to come out better in expansion. Why would the SEC add Va. Tech and NC State first and basically give the B1G to flag ship state universities in UVA and UNC to the B1G. Slive is no idiot and isn't going to the B1G's work for them. The only potential problem I could happening to the ACC without UNC leaving is the B1G going after Missouri and causing the SEC to come after the ACC for a 14th school. The SEC has no exit fee and this is the only backdoor way Delany and B1G can cause dominos to fall without UNC jumping to either conference.

 

[Crusty]

UNC is going nowhere.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I keep hearing Oklahoma to the Big Ten

 

[WoadBlue]

The key to this whole expansion is North Carolina, and the article by Frank is 100% right. North Carolina is the Texas of the ACC, and they aren't going to leave being the Kings of the ACC to become bishops or knights in the B1G or SEC. While the B1G or SEC could poach other ACC teams other than UNC neither conference wants to make the first move without UNC because then the other conference would be in a position to take UNC and UVA. Thus, its a game of chicken between the B1G and SEC and if UNC decides the extra money is worth giving up their power then the ACC is screwed, but I think UNC will be happy with power so long as they aren't making significantly money less than the other conferences. I would rather be the King fish of a decent sized pond rather than medium sized fish in the biggest pond. I just hope Swofford knows what he is doing creating an alliance with the Big XII.

UNC is best understood as the anti-Texas. By that I mean that while Texas would dump any conference mate of even 100 years should it get an itch that will make Texas richer and/or more powerful, UNC is loyal to all ACC members. Texas was happy as an alcoholic discovering punch spiked with PGA at a Temperance meeting to dump Rice, TCU, SMU, and Houston. Texas apparently preferred a 10 member new league rather than the Big XII, which would have dumped Texas Tech or Baylor or both.

Neither UNC nor UVA is going to leave behind Wake, for example.

The only alliance with the Big 12 the ACC will have will be about some OOC scheduling and perhaps new bowl ties - perhaps a Big 12 team in the Belk Bowl in Charlotte. I could see a number of OOC games arranged with help from conference offices, to make certain every ACC football team has at least 1 big OOC game per year. Unless Texas gets back to playing A&M, it even needs to think about beefing up OOC schedules, like every ACC team not playing an SEC name team annually.

 

[HtownOrange]

I keep hearing Oklahoma to the Big Ten

I'm still waiting to hear from my governmental source, "NASA DUDE", (cue SU2NASA), but that is what I've been hearing.

 

[All4SU]

I keep hearing Oklahoma to the Big Ten

That's what I've been hearing too.

 

[All4SU]

UNC is best understood as the anti-Texas. By that I mean that while Texas would dump any conference mate of even 100 years should it get an itch that will make Texas richer and/or more powerful, UNC is loyal to all ACC members. Texas was happy as an alcoholic discovering punch spiked with PGA at a Temperance meeting to dump Rice, TCU, SMU, and Houston. Texas apparently preferred a 10 member new league rather than the Big XII, which would have dumped Texas Tech or Baylor or both.

Neither UNC nor UVA is going to leave behind Wake, for example.

The only alliance with the Big 12 the ACC will have will be about some OOC scheduling and perhaps new bowl ties - perhaps a Big 12 team in the Belk Bowl in Charlotte. I could see a number of OOC games arranged with help from conference offices, to make certain every ACC football team has at least 1 big OOC game per year. Unless Texas gets back to playing A&M, it even needs to think about beefing up OOC schedules, like every ACC team not playing an SEC name team annually.

In today's environment, I have a difficult time believing that UNC is loyal to all of their conference mates. I do however agree with the poster who suggested they like being in the position of control, which they would lose if they went someplace else.

 

[Chip]

In today's environment, I have a difficult time believing that UNC is loyal to all of their conference mates. I do however agree with the poster who suggested they like being in the position of control, which they would lose if they went someplace else.

All comes down to the price tag. Ted DiBiase was ahead of his time. For 5m extra per year would UNC jump? Probably no. For $20m more? Wake who? That's if they believe the suitor's projections.

 

[Crusty]

It is a question of looking longer than 5 years. UNC knows they have the cards for the long haul.

 

[OrangeHeel]

All comes down to the price tag. Ted DiBiase was ahead of his time. For 5m extra per year would UNC jump? Probably no. For $20m more? Wake who? That's if they believe the suitor's projections.

I get the C.R.E.A.M. principle (cash rules everything around me), but as a Carolina grad I'd be shocked if the Heels left the ACC short of an Armageddon situation that they didn't start. I think we keep forgetting that Carolina is a basketball first school, is far from broke, & gets to lead rather than follow in the ACC.


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[SmilinBob]

I get the C.R.E.A.M. principle (cash rules everything around me), but as a Carolina grad I'd be shocked if the Heels left the ACC short of an Armageddon situation that they didn't start. I think we keep forgetting that Carolina is a basketball first school, is far from broke, & gets to lead rather than follow in the ACC.


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That's the thing OH, Swofford has the inside info and if crap is hitting the fan in the ACC, he'll be the first to know and I'd be shocked if he didn't have a quick exit plan for North Carolina. The keys to me are NC and Virginia, VT is a whore so I have no faith in that school what so ever. SU hopefully has kept an open dialog going with the Big 10 but I don't think it'll go to that and to be honest the Big 10 and SEC would want NC and Virginia and both those schools match up academically with the Big 10 so again if it hits the fan, we will be picked after those two schools. And you're right, Money (Football and Academically) is the #1 force and I hope fear doesn't push these two schools to jump.

I hope that the Big 10 move to grab the 2 desperate schools Maryland and Rutty and was out of cable and fear of not having a playmate for PSU. Imagine, as much as the hillbillies and the Texas Longhorn mouthpieces have been spreading rumors about the ACC as being weak what actually may have happened is that the great and powerful Big 10 got nervous and thought PSU may indeed leave for the ACC.

I'm not too worried about the Big 12, they're a mess and always have been.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I get the C.R.E.A.M. principle (cash rules everything around me), but as a Carolina grad I'd be shocked if the Heels left the ACC short of an Armageddon situation that they didn't start. I think we keep forgetting that Carolina is a basketball first school, is far from broke, & gets to lead rather than follow in the ACC.


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Love the Wu Tang reference, and yes, UNC isn't going anywhere- short of total ACC Armageddon.
Its the B1G/SEC threat that I'd worry about.
If Delaney & Slive pull a Don Corleone on UVA, FSU, GT, Miami- and "give them an offer they can't refuse", then the dominoes might fall.
Also, I just realized that I know every Big 5 Commissioner by name.
Excuse me while I go take a shower. :bang:

 

[baggerbob]

Look the SEC doesn't want the Big 10 in the south anymore then the ACC, or Big 12. I firmly believe by taking Maryland almost a southern school, Delaney made a big mistake, and that type of blunder could get the south to unite against the Big 10.

 

[Resonator]

I think this post is where I am on this issue.

Long term I think demographics favor the ACC.

I think the conference not only survives but flourishes.

I agree wholeheartedly. I believe that both Syracuse and Pitt will help improve football, and, the basketball will be nothing short of incredible. This league is set up for a very prosperous future.

 

[Resonator]

UNC is going nowhere.

That says it all. UNC likes being in a league where the members share similarities. Similar size enrollments, similar commitment to balancing academics and athletics, similar commitment to Olympic sports, etc. SU and Pitt do, too.

I am very anxious for this fall to arrive, so the new ACC can get underway. I think we are all going to love this league, and, very much enjoy what its going to offer.

 

[Resonator]

Look the SEC doesn't want the Big 10 in the south anymore then the ACC, or Big 12. I firmly believe by taking Maryland almost a southern school, Delaney made a big mistake, and that type of blunder could get the south to unite against the Big 10.

The best way to keep the Big 10 out of the South is for the ACC to prosper in similar fashion to the SEC.