This article from syracuse.com sure paints things in a different light | Syracusefan.com

This article from syracuse.com sure paints things in a different light

pretty clear the school and the paper and ESPN all tried to look into this. Hard to believe JB didnt know they were looking into it. no witnesses, no evidence other than the say so of someone. Should the school have done more then based on that ? 30 year old accusations are tough to prove, unless something more recent comes out.
 
djcon57 said:
The Post-Standard interviewed a handful of other men whom the accuser said had spent a lot of time at the Fines’ house as children and whom the accuser suggested might have been molested by Fine. All of these men, including one of the accuser's close relatives, denied Fine had sexual contact with them.
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Look, I'm not suggesting that this isn't true--and if it is then Bernie deserves to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

But the evidence seems to paint a story that doesn't support this guy's claim.

If it is true, then he is the victim of a reprehensible crime.

But I sure feel better knowing that the University conducted a comprehensive investigation in 2005 that shot this down, on the heels of both ESPN and the Post-Standard looking into it separately and both failing to bring it to print due to lack of supportable evidence.
 
RF2044 said:
Look, I'm not suggesting that this isn't true--and if it is then Bernie deserves to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

But the evidence seems to paint a story that doesn't support this guy's claim.

If it is true, then he is the victim of a reprehensible crime.

But I sure feel better knowing that the University conducted a comprehensive investigation in 2005 that shot this down, on the heels of both ESPN and the Post-Standard looking into it separately and both failing to bring it to print due to lack of supportable evidence.
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Just remember that other people might look at this as a coverup by the police and the paper. People here can't be jaded and have to remain very objective.
 
the same paper that got the program in trouble before covered it up? the police didnt cover it up they said they couldnt do anything about it. and who covered it up at ESPN?
 
I will not comment too much until all the facts come out. But right now his stories have a lot of holes in it. Couple others things he first reported this in 2003 at the height of Syracuse Basketball and now it comes back out when everyone is on edge with the Penn State stuff. There seems to be a ton of holes right now so I will not comment until those holes get filled. I don't want to have to eat my words later...
 
It is good that ESPN tried to do a story on it and also found nothing to run at the time.
 
Even his own relative didn't back up his stories.Does this 39 year old MAN have a beef with Bernie?
 
The timing of this whole accusations seems a little suspect to me. In 2005 there was nobody around to back up this guy's story. Now, in 2011, the week following the biggest molestation scandal in college sports history, his cousin (I think) all of a sudden can back up his story?

I'm not saying his claim isn't true, that's not for me to decide. But this guy KNEW that his story would get major play because of the PSU scandal.

I'm not sure if he's trying to set up some kind of financial gain (lawsuit settlement), because of all of the recent talk that "Penn State will be paying boatloads of money to the victims".
 
cliftonparksufan said:
Just remember that other people might look at this as a coverup by the police and the paper. People here can't be jaded and have to remain very objective.
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Okay, then how about ESPN?

And what about the University investigation?

They can look at it any way they want--here's the way this appears to have unfolded:

  • Guy came forward in 2003, went to ESPN who conducted a dug in and chose NOT to run the story due to lack of any evidence supporting the guy's claim
  • Post standard gets wind of the story, they investigate and also choose not to run story
  • University conducts a separate investigation, and determined that there was no evidence [beyond the claim itself]
Again, I'm not saying that it isn't true--I hope to christ it isn't. If it is, then Boeheim deserves to be fired just like Joe Paterno was.
But this looks a lot like a story without merit, and without any evidence that will support the guy's claims.
 
even if it is true why would you fire JB? unless he knew it was true what did he do wrong?
 
"All of these men, including one of the accuser's close relatives, denied Fine had sexual contact with them."

So his close relative obviously a brother or cousin? Said on many other occasions that this abuse never happened but now because of Penn State this close relative apparently was inspired to tell the truth? After reporters, lawyers and the school had failed to get this information, he apparently lied on many occasions saying it didn't happen? Something isn't right here. Now if it is true then Bye Bye Bernie and Burn in Hell...
 
rf, I disagree. If it is true and jb knew, he gets fired. But this was investigated by the school, espn, the Post Standard and nothing was proven. Why would jb fired if it is now determined that it was true but it wasn't known until now?
 
dash-30-dash said:
rf, I disagree. If it is true and jb knew, he gets fired. But this was investigated by the school, espn, the Post Standard and nothing was proven. Why would jb fired if it is now determined that it was true but it wasn't known until now?
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If any fraction of this is true, then I can't envision a circumstance where JB doesn't perish in flames--especially given the heightened sensitivity in the aftermath of the PSU scandal.

I agree that the University seems to have given this matter the serious attention it deserves. But if it has legs, then this is going to turn into a shitstorm that I don't think JB will survive.

Edit: I do feel more confident about the program's hands being clean after hearing about the University investigation, and the comments from the DA.
 
CUSEBB1 said:
Even his own relative didn't back up his stories.Does this 39 year old MAN have a beef with Bernie?
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While it might be possible that the guy is lying, you are sounding an awful lot like the in-denial PSU fans.
 
pearl31 said:
While it might be possible that the guy is lying, you are sounding an awful lot like the in-denial PSU fans.
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Keep in mind that at the time the PSU story really broke, there was grand jury testimony from eyewitnesses corroborating the kid's claims.
 
Yes, its starting to look better as more of the facts come out.
If the accuser's step-brother is now coming forward after previously denying any abuse, then theres a question of credibility.

Its early yet, but if other accuser's come out of the woodwork, then we'll have a different situation. But right now, its just ESPN's sensational headlines & little else.
 
A curious discrepancy in what's been reported so far...

The P-S and ESPN are reporting that the accuser said he went on road trips with Fine, including to the 87 Final Four and two tournaments in Hawaii. But ESPN attributes the following to the accuser's mother: "She said when Davis was young, he 'was with Bernie Fine quite a bit.' She said he traveled with the team extensively, though she said he did not go on trips when an airplane flight was required because he didn't like to fly. The 1987 Final Four, where Davis said he went with Fine, was in New Orleans."
 
Bortukal said:
A curious discrepancy in what's been reported so far...

The P-S and ESPN are reporting that the accuser said he went on road trips with Fine, including to the 87 Final Four and two tournaments in Hawaii. But ESPN attributes the following to the accuser's mother: "She said when Davis was young, he 'was with Bernie Fine quite a bit.' She said he traveled with the team extensively, though she said he did not go on trips when an airplane flight was required because he didn't like to fly. The 1987 Final Four, where Davis said he went with Fine, was in New Orleans."
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I'm thinking we're gonna see a lot of discrepancies, it was in the 80's after all.
If this is bogus, we'll know soon enough.
The key will be new accuser's if any, & the prior role of JB & the SU admin.
Either way, this will get played on ESPN- facts & perspective be damned!
 
RF2044 said:
Okay, then how about ESPN?

And what about the University investigation?

They can look at it any way they want--here's the way this appears to have unfolded:

  • Guy came forward in 2003, went to ESPN who conducted a dug in and chose NOT to run the story due to lack of any evidence supporting the guy's claim
  • Post standard gets wind of the story, they investigate and also choose not to run story
  • University conducts a separate investigation, and determined that there was no evidence [beyond the claim itself]
Again, I'm not saying that it isn't true--I hope to christ it isn't. If it is, then Boeheim deserves to be fired just like Joe Paterno was.
But this looks a lot like a story without merit, and without any evidence that will support the guy's claims.
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Before we all go off the deep end here and start PSU comparisons...there are NO comparisons! If what we see in the Post Standard is true, and I have no reason to think it isn't (this is the paper that reported against SU around 1990, a story which landed the hometown team on probation) then there a A LOT of holes here. THREE different outlets (ESPN, PS, and SU) ran thorough investigations and found nothing to warrant even PUBLISHING the story. Plus, the guy says it went on for from when he was 11 or 12 until he was 22? What is that? And then he never comes forward until he's like 30? I'm sorry, but this story stinks and probably gets no airplay if not for the PSU scandal.

Second, after these three organizations do their own own separate investigations, and all come to the SAME conclusion, how is JB and or SU justified in firing Bernie Fine? Isn't that a lawsuit Bernie would win any day of the week? How could JB be culpable? The investigation was 4 months long. Key potential witnesses were interviewed. Not one shred of evidence supported the claims. What do you do? You cannot fire a guy who is deemed innocent.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see any comparison to the PSU case. None. This story stinks. The timing seems like opportunity to me. The guy couldn't get anything to stick in 2003. Maybe he figures with the media attention on the subject he has a better shot? Just playing devil's advocate.

The University did the right thing. Remove Fine from the situation until the new investigation can take place. If he's guilty, then he should be punished. However, if there is still no supporting evidence after another lengthy review, or these "NEW" witnesses don't hold water, what do you do? Does the witch hunt still demand a mandatory retirement?

I hope this turns out to be nothing, but if it isn't...

If Fine has something to say, he should come out and say it soon.
 
PeteCalvin said:
Before we all go off the deep end here and start PSU comparisons...there are NO comparisons! If what we see in the Post Standard is true, and I have no reason to think it isn't (this is the paper that reported against SU around 1990, a story which landed the hometown team on probation) then there a A LOT of holes here. THREE different outlets (ESPN, PS, and SU) ran thorough investigations and found nothing to warrant even PUBLISHING the story. Plus, the guy says it went on for from when he was 11 or 12 until he was 22? What is that? And then he never comes forward until he's like 30? I'm sorry, but this story stinks and probably gets no airplay if not for the PSU scandal.

Second, after these three organizations do their own own separate investigations, and all come to the SAME conclusion, how is JB and or SU justified in firing Bernie Fine? Isn't that a lawsuit Bernie would win any day of the week? How could JB be culpable? The investigation was 4 months long. Key potential witnesses were interviewed. Not one shred of evidence supported the claims. What do you do? You cannot fire a guy who is deemed innocent.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see any comparison to the PSU case. None. This story stinks. The timing seems like opportunity to me. The guy couldn't get anything to stick in 2003. Maybe he figures with the media attention on the subject he has a better shot? Just playing devil's advocate.

The University did the right thing. Remove Fine from the situation until the new investigation can take place. If he's guilty, then he should be punished. However, if there is still no supporting evidence after another lengthy review, or these "NEW" witnesses don't hold water, what do you do? Does the witch hunt still demand a mandatory retirement?

I hope this turns out to be nothing, but if it isn't...

If Fine has something to say, he should come out and say it soon.
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Don't take this the wrong way & I hate to say it, but this sounds like stuff I've been reading on the PSU board.

There are plenty of people who won't bother reading the fine print- all they see are headlines & scandal.

We might of seen the last of Coach Bernie Fine- regardless of the investigation's outcome. :bang:
 
upperdeck said:
even if it is true why would you fire JB? unless he knew it was true what did he do wrong?
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Exactly. And I don't see JB as the type who would risk keeping a guilty guy around, friendship or not. He does not seem like that type of person. If there was no evidence to prove that Fine did anything, you can't just fire the guy.
 
DoctorBombay said:
Don't take this the wrong way & I hate to say it, but this sounds like stuff I've been reading on the PSU board.

There are plenty of people who won't bother reading the fine print- all they see are headlines & scandal.

We might of seen the last of Coach Bernie Fine- regardless of the investigation's outcome. :bang:
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I'm not trying to defend him or trying to play it off. The facts just don't sit right. If there were 3 very thorough investigations done in 2003 and there were no corroborating witnesses, evidence, etc...then what?...these are questions that need to be asked. I hope the police grill both of them (the accuser and Fine) and get this figured out once and for all.

What I cannot stand are the people jumping to conclusions already that JB may be somehow involved. Really? What part of the story that has been reported thus far would lead people to that conclusion?
 
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