This is what I see as the coaching staff's biggest problem

[OttoinGrotto]

That Louisville game was so discouraging because we lost that game on our first offensive possession. The staff has a very concerning tendency to play for later in the game and not look to produce in the moment. I don't understand it. They conceded that drive.

It looked like as soon as they saw that we were going to take the ball deep in our own territory the objective wasn't to move the ball, but to avoid being pinned deep. Two ultra conservative running plays and then a bunch formation (in my opinion, the worst formation in college football for passing) on third and long screamed that they were giving up on the drive. Which sucked since we buried ourselves with a penalty. I imagine the thinking was that Louisville's offense was crappy, there's a lot of time left, so let's just play for later in the game. We've seen decisions that suggest that thinking before. It bothers me.

I don't think the players play to the level of their competition, I think the coaching staff is content to scheme around what they think the game will be. They knew they needed points to beat WFVU, so they weren't afraid to get points. Get them in a game that struggles to score though and they just don't have the same urgency.

 

[SoBristol]

We were still in the game at the start of the third quarter, down 14-3, and receiving the opening kick off in the second half. Express run by Bailey for 19 yards gave us good field position. The drive stalled when we failed to convert a third down. We punted, stopped Louisville, had good field position a second time. If either of those drives had been productive, we are in the mix despite the weak opening to the game.
You have to credit the Louisville defense. They won the battles on first down; put Nassib into 2nd and long and 3rd and long; and made him uncomfortable. Coaches tried a number of different approaches -- Louisville stopped the runs and covered the short passing routes, giving up only short gains.
Some of our defenders (Spruill and S. Thomas) made some big hits; Louisville's defense overall was just better.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We were still in the game at the start of the third quarter, down 14-3, and receiving the opening kick off in the second half. Express run by Bailey for 19 yards gave us good field position. The drive stalled when we failed to convert a third down. We punted, stopped Louisville, had good field position a second time. If either of those drives had been productive, we are in the mix despite the weak opening to the game.
You have to credit the Louisville defense. They won the battles on first down; put Nassib into 2nd and long and 3rd and long; and made him uncomfortable. Coaches tried a number of different approaches -- Louisville stopped the runs and covered the short passing routes, giving up only short gains.
Some of our defenders (Spruill and S. Thomas) made some big hits; Louisville's defense overall was just better.

You're missing my point completely. We have drives stall all the time. We need to treat each possession with more respect and maximize the opportunity to try and put points on the board by, uhm, trying to put points on the board.

You cannot tell me that the objective on the first drive was to score. The playcalling suggests to me that the goal was to not punt out of the endzone.

We were never in that game.

 

[ForeverOrange]

To me we still don't quite have an identity yet, we want to run the ball and be a running team, but it seems we do best passing to set up the run, we are content to let other teams set the way a game is played. Reality is, for right now our secondary is a liability, we need to put up points, we need to pass the ball. We know Nassib can't throw the long ball, but we need to get more creative with the passes he can make, some of the passes are starting to get a tad predictable.

 

[orangenirvana]

So because two running plays were called, that means they were "ultra-conservative" and they weren't trying to get a first down?

So basically what you're saying is - coaches are only trying when they call a passing play. Otherwise, they're just playing for the punt?

 

[SmilinBob]

SU has been in 3rd and 4 or lower situations and in this game they were not. Louisville now can attack and the Orange were on their heels offensively way too often in this game, due to good Louisville defense and the lack of execution by SU. SU made some big 3rd down plays against wv in that game and in the Louisville game they didn't make those plays. Louisville tackled well and attacked. SU needs a guy that can catch the ball and turn it upfield for a td against that type of defense and we do not have that player right now.

 

[MikeSU02]

To me we still don't quite have an identity yet.

This is spot on, imo. There are tons of problems with this team. Some big, some small, some on the coaches, some on the players. There is plenty of blame to go around.

However, we have no identity. I have no idea what this team is or what they want to be. Pick something. Be great at it. Own it. And run with it.

 

[Dcuse]

This is spot on, imo. There are tons of problems with this team. Some big, some small, some on the coaches, some on the players. There is plenty of blame to go around.

However, we have no identity. I have no idea what this team is or what they want to be. Pick something. Be great at it. Own it. And run with it.

Guess what? If those passes are completed that were WIDE open- suddenly we have an identity. These words are so over-used it's ridiculous.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This is spot on, imo. There are tons of problems with this team. Some big, some small, some on the coaches, some on the players. There is plenty of blame to go around.

However, we have no identity. I have no idea what this team is or what they want to be. Pick something. Be great at it. Own it. And run with it.

alot of truth to that, instead of being multiple hang your hat on something... run it into the ground and perfect it, do not waiver... Great teams do that.. I know I know, talent, complete rebuild, more time etc etc etc

 

[SmilinBob]

Identity, I don't get it. Execute, players and staff, and you have an identity and it's called scoring points. I don't understand the need to label things like west coast offense or run and fun or whatever.

 

[Rocco]

For whatever reason, Marrone and Hackett seem scared to play aggressively most games. The WVU game was an exception and look at what happened.

 

[kcsu]

alot of truth to that, instead of being multiple hang your hat on something... run it into the ground and perfect it, do not waiver... Great teams do that.. I know I know, talent, complete rebuild, more time etc etc etc

We are pretty great at three and out

 

[SmilinBob]

For whatever reason, Marrone and Hackett seem scared to play aggressively most games. The WVU game was an exception and look at what happened.

You can be more aggressive when the defense you're playing against isn't. Louisville's defense matched up extremely well vs the Syracuse offense and this does have to be fixed I agree but comparing the 2 defenses you have to agree the cards d is way better.

 

[OrangeMojo]

SU has been in 3rd and 4 or lower situations and in this game they were not. Louisville now can attack and the Orange were on their heels offensively way too often in this game, due to good Louisville defense and the lack of execution by SU. SU made some big 3rd down plays against wv in that game and in the Louisville game they didn't make those plays. Louisville tackled well and attacked. SU needs a guy that can catch the ball and turn it upfield for a td against that type of defense and we do not have that player right now.

screen passes against an attacking SU defense seem to work all the time - wish SU could pull that off more often

 

[SmilinBob]

screen passes against an attacking SU defense seem to work all the time - wish SU could pull that off more often

I'd like to see that and have Bailey sneak out but the break down happens too quick sometimes along with safetys pinching in because of the lack of respect for our deep speed. Corners take the SU wr's one on one and if we can get the wr's to disrupt that the safetys will continue to cheat in.

There is something up with not using Bailey in the screen more often and I'm not sure what it is other than what I wrote. He has excellent hands but maybe the d guy is on Nassib too quick for him to just pop one over to him? Misdirection to get the d thinking instead of reacting? You still need time to do it and maybe Baileys height has something to do with it?

 

[SoBristol]

You're missing my point completely. We have drives stall all the time. We need to treat each possession with more respect and maximize the opportunity to try and put points on the board by, uhm, trying to put points on the board.

You cannot tell me that the objective on the first drive was to score. The playcalling suggests to me that the goal was to not punt out of the endzone.

We were never in that game.

Well, I don't think your point is valid. Games aren't won or lost by how the first couple of drives go. Lots of times teams will stink up the field in the first half, make some adjustments, and put up points in the second half.
The coaches went to the Express after half time -- it did provide a spark. They tried other ways to get the ball to Chew or to take a shot down the field.
It is a platitude that you have to treat each possession with more respect, or try to put points on the board. Obviously. But in that third quarter, with good field position, we were still in the game --

 

[CIL]

screen passes against an attacking SU defense seem to work all the time - wish SU could pull that off more often

If I were Hackett i would screen pass the hell out of team like Rutgers and L'Ville. I'd do it until they stopped it three times in a row. Then you throw the old fake bubble screen deep ball (ala Spence) right over them.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So because two running plays were called, that means they were "ultra-conservative" and they weren't trying to get a first down?

So basically what you're saying is - coaches are only trying when they call a passing play. Otherwise, they're just playing for the punt?

It was more the combination of the two run calls followed by a pass play with an absolutely horrible formation. I didn't have an issue with the run calls until I saw what we tried to pass out of on 3rd. Take the three plays as a whole. Does that make sense?

 

[rrlbees]

If I were Hackett i would screen pass the hell out of team like Rutgers and L'Ville. I'd do it until they stopped it three times in a row. Then you throw the old fake bubble screen deep ball (ala Spence) right over them.

I'm with you there. Against Ville I was begging for some screens and draws.

 

[DezisOrange]

I have to agree with Otto. I keep hoping that as time goes on I would stop seeing this but it continues. I think, and this is just my opinion, that we still haven't figured out the difference between what more often than not goes on in college and the thinking and strategy and for lack of a better term psychology of the college game vs the pro game. A lot of our conservative nature to me is as much the "nature" of our coach and his OC. Does better talent play a part?...of course it does, but if you have it even being conservative can bring results. Without it being conservative and having a plan doesn't leave you much when that 'plan' is taken away from you. As happy as we should be for what we have, we are still rushing this process a bit. I personally wasn't thrilled with this OC in the first place, but since he's ours and Marrone sees something there, i feel like, just as a new recruit needs time, he's gonna need some time to grow into his position. For coach Marrone, he may need to recognize going forward that he doesn't have the luxury of waiting for many parts of his well planned and thought out "notebooks" to come to fruition. There's a place sometimes to toss it out and just play football, there are times to just go for it, there is precedence sometimes to tell starters that I can't wait for you to learn to beat a back or coverage...we are throwing the ball today and I expect you to go and get it! There are times when you have to tell your o-line 'hey boys, 3 yards and a cloud of dust today, get it done'! Ultimately, no matter what we have now we are infinetly better than where we were and we are speeding in the right direction. A couple of more recruiting classes under our belt and hanging on to the staff will go a long way in our return to the top 25. Go SU

 

[SmilinBob]

You have to sell the screen and unless I'm mistaken Rutgers read one and intercepted it. Maybe this particular team is not that good at it and fails to execute it well in practice.

 

[timkay99]

For whatever reason, Marrone and Hackett seem scared to play aggressively most games. The WVU game was an exception and look at what happened.

The exception in the WV game was Nassib completed his deep balls.

 

[SmilinBob]

The exception in the WV game was Nassib completed his deep balls.

I agree and if you smash him in the mouth he has a tendency to hurry his throws and put less air on them...he had plenty of time vs wv because the running game was doing well and they bought the play fakes or they just didn't blitz. You have to get in Nassib's head and that is something Nassib HAS to improve on.

 

[Rocco]

The exception in the WV game was Nassib completed his deep balls.

True. Their gameplan was still attacking versus sitting back on their heels. Nassib hit every throw against WVU. Against LVille he didn't throw that many, and the ones he did throw, he missed horribly.

 

[rrlbees]

The exception in the WV game was Nassib completed his deep balls.

He did? Our longest pass play was 29 yards and that was a catch and run to Stevens. He didn't complete a single deep ball that game either.

The difference in that game was that the OL gave him all day to throw and nothing was rushed or thrown under duress, the WR made 3 great catches to help, and the run game was clicking.