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Message: [QUOTE="IthacaBarrel, post: 1901999, member: 363"] I think the worse the design is the higher the prices will come in, when in doubt most contractors will cover their asses the problem that you discuss with contractors submitting bids below cost so they can get massive change orders later is a very risky proposition and not common practice. Why would you bid to lose money? Sure it's one school of thought but a lot of that will get sifted through post bid decopes with Turner as they attempt to get each contractor apples to apples. The method that you refer to is pretty old school and really only seen on public hard bid type project where low bid always wins and public money dictates lowest qualified bidder. A accompany like Turner will rip through all bids and bring in the low 3 bidders for a page turn and a comprehensive review of proposals and bid documents. They will also pick contractors brains etc. I assure you that a CM at risk (versus an agency CM who has no risk) which I would imagine Turner is will not want to send documents out to bid that are littered with gray area and design omissions, Turner has blood in the game with regard to project overruns as well. In addition, most contractors won't want to battle with Turner and the University and tie things up in litigation as I assure you they have more money for this than most contractors. Cm and design professionals have clauses in bid documents and use shite such as "design intent" to argue with things of this nature. That said, renovation work has a lot of unknowns by nature, using as built drawings from even 40 years ago proposes great risk for all parties, many times things just aren't where or what they are suppose to be. It's a high risk situation for all parties.. The University and turner would be smart to delay construction if needed to make sure that they confident in their design and bid documents, this is one of the reasons they hire a construction manager. I am sure they will finish the roof design and bid that 1st. As I have said, on paper Turner is about as good as you can get for this type of project which to me shows that the University is putting their best foot forward and I don't see them trying to mickey mouse anything. A CM like Turner will have their in house QC structural, architectural and MEP guys rip through the documents looking for gray area and omissions prior to bid process but there will always be questions and changes but how many is the issue The lighting will be a cost savings long term and will greatly improve the look and viewing experience for all. Many of the systems in the dome are caveman like. I have sat on both the CM and construction side.. still do but much more so on the construction side these days, we build shite not just stare at it [/QUOTE]

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