This really is the low t board | Syracusefan.com

This really is the low t board

GoSU96

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Bunch whiny little girls. Punts, kickers, no talent,weak arm the last guys fault,the dcs fault, the worst defense ever, too much running, play the young guys,too much youth.

This team was 7 -17 the prior two years. Babers is building a program with a proven blueprint.

So strap in, toughen up, and take a big dose of shut the hell up
 
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Our offense is on steroids but if you want to talk "Low T" - That's our defense.

I said in another thread that I'll give Babers a chance with his guys but I just don't see how the Tampa 2 works in CFB for a program like us.

I get that our defense is young and injury riddled but I don't get how players aren't even in the tv screen on most plays.

2 deep safeties.. How deep are the safeties playing because I never see them on any play.

Our linebackers outside of Franklin put on invisibility cloaks every play because I never see them anywhere.

Our defensive line clearly can't get pressure on anyone which is what it is but when we blitz, the blitzing player might as well hold up a neon sign that's flashes in bright lights telling the opposing team "IM BLITZING".
 
Our offense is on steroids but if you want to talk "Low T" - That's our defense.

I said in another thread that I'll give Babers a chance with his guys but I just don't see how the Tampa 2 works in CFB for a program like us.

I get that our defense is young and injury riddled but I don't get how players aren't even in the tv screen on most plays.

2 deep safeties.. How deep are the safeties playing because I never see them on any play.

Our linebackers outside of Franklin put on invisibility cloaks every play because I never see them anywhere.

Our defensive line clearly can't get pressure on anyone which is what it is but when we blitz, the blitzing player might as well hold up a neon sign that's flashes in bright lights telling the opposing team "IM BLITZING".

How is it that estime makes a couple of big returns if the defense doesn't make some stops

I'm pretty sure I saw another goaline stand. Somehow they held no to 1 for 7 on 3rd down in the first half

They need lot of work but it isn't hopeless. And it was never a secret the offense needed to carry the team
 
Hope this doesn't make the TLDR file for most...

It is obvious to me we do not have the personnel to run the Tampa-2

Below is a VG primer for those a little unsure of why HCDB chooses this defense and how it runs. My feeling is he needs some difference makers on the DL before it becomes anywhere near a complementary asset to the Baylor Offense. The big rub is Cuse can occasionally get 1 or 2 difference makers on the DL but usually we find guys that are developmental players or guys that are ready but are 2-3 inches shorter than a prototypical High D-1 DL. Without any semblance of pressure on most average/better teams...the QB sits back there and exploits the gaps.

BL in my mind: Cuse fans better be ready for several years of ping pong games of scoring. We can get over the hump more quickly on the offensive side but the defense is going to take 3-5 years to get there (if it ever does). If not we will still have exciting games (make lower level bowl games) and IMHO much easier on the eyes for average fans to watch.

How can we help the process? We need to fill the Dome to help DB recruit and SU needs to get this Dome Reno going ASAP.

Finding a Good Fit for the Tampa 2 Defense

The Tampa 2 is a variant of the general "Cover 2" style of defense which relies on having two safeties cover the deep part of the field. It actually doesn't get its roots in Tampa Bay, rather it originates from the 1970s style of football during the days of the Pittsburgh "Steel Curtain" defense. It's an older style of defense, but can still be effective in today's NFL with the right personnel. It's typically a difficult defense to score points on (really?) because of the "bend don't break" philosophy that tightens up when the field shrinks in the red zone.

In the Tampa 2 scheme each position requires very specific skill sets in order to effectively execute the scheme. You can't just throw any ol' football players in there and expect it to be run effectively. For example, the defensive line must be able to generate pressure from the four down lineman without having to commit other linebackers and corners to blitz. Those middle 5 players are needed to cover zones in the middle of the field, due to the fact that there are 2 safeties playing deep coverage. The scheme requires defensive ends that are quick and agile that can get to the quarterback, as well as a nose tackle that can take on extra blockers and help stuff the run.

The middle linebacker is one of the most important positions on the field since he has to read the opposing offense correctly and decide if it's a run play or a pass play. His responsibility is dramatic, as he has to either shoot the gap in run defense, or drop back in coverage and man the middle of the field behind the outside linebackers. It requires a middle linebacker with elite speed and a heady player that can quickly diagnose plays. Therefore, if the MLB is caught out of position it generally leaves the middle of the field wide open. The outside linebackers are generally responsible for covering their zones around the hash marks (inside the cornerbacks) to about 10 yards deep, but also need to be able to cover their gaps in run defense. They have a similar responsibility as the MLB, but aren't required to cover nearly as much of the field, nor do they make the primary calls and reads of the opposing offense.


The cornerbacks cover the sidelines, and because the outside linebackers are responsible for zone coverage, this scheme requires the cornerbacks to be effective tacklers in run support. It is why a player like Antoine Winfield thrived in this scheme: he was an elite tackler. A cornerback in this scheme doesn't have to be an elite man-to-man coverage corner, as the deep zone safeties provide a "safety blanket" (pun intended) in coverage breakdowns, but they do have to be elite tacklers because there is not much help against runs to the outside.

And finally, the two deep safeties are probably the 2nd most important position in the scheme. It requires two safeties that have elite speed, with above-average coverage abilities. They are required to cover exactly half of the field at least 20 yards deep. But even more important is having two players with different skill sets: one that excels in either a "strong" capacity (ie, to deliver big hits across the middle of the field and tackle well) or "free" capacity (ie, to slide over and cover the responsibility of a blitzing cornerback, or blitz the quarterback himself).
 
Bunch whiny little girls. Punts, kickers, no talent,weak arm the last guys fault,the dcs fault, the worst defense ever, too much running, play the young guys,too much youth.

This team was 7 -17 the prior two years. Babers is building a program with a proven blueprint.

So strap in, toughen up, and take a big dose of shut the hell up
Ok stone cold
 
It is obvious to me we do not have the personnel to run the Tampa-2

we don't have the talent to run any defensive scheme. Our defensive talent isn't very good. You can put our group of current defensive players we have in any defensive system and the outcome will still be the same. It's not the scheme it's the players.
 
I dont know where to post this (maybe here), but it is astonishing that a power 5 program, with a full compliment of scholarships, can have such little quality depth at multiple positions (e.g., QB, RB, TE, DT, DE, CB).
 
I dont know where to post this (maybe here), but it is astonishing that a power 5 program, with a full compliment of scholarships, can have such little quality depth at multiple positions (e.g., QB, RB, TE, DT, DE, CB).
DE is explainable...the others are easy too: Crappy Dome attendance, too many head coaches, not many recruits within a couple hours and sucking for 15 years.

DB is the real deal and we need to give this guy more than 3 years.
 
Way too much overthinking.

How about: ND better O talent + Kelly's system year #7 + Syracuse lesser D talent that is very young at key spots + game 5 in new system + more possessions = what we saw.

It's time + talent. Look for progress not a fully grown miracle D.
 
DE is explainable...the others are easy too: Crappy Dome attendance, too many head coaches, not many recruits within a couple hours and sucking for 15 years.

DB is the real deal and we need to give this guy more than 3 years.

I have major concerns about the Tampa 2 ever being an effective D here. Schematically, there seem to be a few flaws right off the jump:
  1. We will always operate a talent deficit to at minimum 3 or 4 opponents;
  2. The prominence of this defense occurred before may teams switched to high tempo, spread formations. I know the gruden/dungey teams are renowned for this system, but i wonder what they played in obvious passing downs when their opponents ran out 4 and 5 wides?
  3. The mlb read is much tougher against these read option teams that are prolific in college. How can the mlb quickly diagnose the play when the QB himself is waiting until the last moment to decide what to do?
Babers made his bed, now he gets to lay in it. I'll be rooting for him to succeed. I know he talks about belief without evidence, but for this d, there is plenty or pre-existing evidence to the contrary.
 
The db's and Lb's are not fast enough to cover for the mistakes they are making and the learning curve has been harsh due to the offensive talent they have played against. I see things turning around around the half way point in the 2018 season with some interesting moments in-between. Babers had a shotgun recruiting period for 2016...building relationships for 2017 with a better class and in 2018 will have solid footing and more and more of what the staff needs will be playing and knowing what their roles are. Right now...we will see what players step up and can make plays and what ones can't or are now gun shy because of the trial by fire. It'll be a process and to do it right it has to have a strong foundation. Another thing...look at the recruiting year of Feb 2014 regarding the DB's. Dawson out due to health issues. Howard kicked off team. Prater grades. Add to that DT's Harvey and Williams never make it. That is 5 guys right off the bat gone off the obvious thin D. Heck, the 2 biggest recruits (star wise) for WR never made it either. Babers knows how to coach and what he wants/needs to do. Let's just hope that the recruits realize this when they see a half full Dome. What is kind of funny/sad is that so many people wanted offense and were ok with losing 50-35 but now that they see how that happens...are not so thrilled with it.
 
Hope this doesn't make the TLDR file for most...

It is obvious to me we do not have the personnel to run the Tampa-2


1. We will never have the DL talent to run the Tampa 2

2. We have rarely used cover 2 and/or had Franklin drop into the deep middle. So if we aren't really running the Tampa 2, there is no excuse for the show we have seen.

3. I would be ecstatic if we had a bend but don't break D.

4. The Tampa 2 wasn't built to stop the Spread.


There are bigger issues on D than just talent. Even with better talent our ceiling under Babers will be 7 Ws if we keep "attacking" on D this way.
 
I have major concerns about the Tampa 2 ever being an effective D here. Schematically, there seem to be a few flaws right off the jump:
  1. We will always operate a talent deficit to at minimum 3 or 4 opponents;
  2. The prominence of this defense occurred before may teams switched to high tempo, spread formations. I know the gruden/dungey teams are renowned for this system, but i wonder what they played in obvious passing downs when their opponents ran out 4 and 5 wides?
  3. The mlb read is much tougher against these read option teams that are prolific in college. How can the mlb quickly diagnose the play when the QB himself is waiting until the last moment to decide what to do?
Babers made his bed, now he gets to lay in it. I'll be rooting for him to succeed. I know he talks about belief without evidence, but for this d, there is plenty or pre-existing evidence to the contrary.


There is all of ONE year of "pre existing evidence" of this D under Babers. Contrarily there is 4 years of this O under Babers and another 4 years where he was an assistant under this O.

Who here wouldn't be worried if Marrone had hired a DC with no P5 experience (even as an assistant), no NFL experience, one year of MAC experience, and several years of FCS experience?

Being patient with the O isn't "belief without evidence" because there is 8 years of evidence that the system works. Being patient with the D is truly blind faith as there is zero evidence that a school like SU can play it.
 
I'm really not worried about Dino. He has a system that is proven. He needs time and patience and support from the fans.

I am worried about the Dome. Dino has a plan for the team but it appears more certain with each passing month that SU does not have a plan for our "decrepit, antiquated" stadium. Opposing coaches and fan bases are still negative recruiting against the Dome and the increasingly small football crowds that inhabit it. SU has done an absolutely abysmal job in rolling out specifics of the Dome renovation. I question whether Dino will still be around when renovations finally get underway.

Again, no doubts about Dino. Many doubts about SU's commitment to a 21st century Dome and game day experience.
 
Better DEs (our current guys with more experience might get there) and a quality 2nd string is key. Throw in an improvement in overall D Team speed and the Tampa-2 can be effective.

We need to give him some time. A few of our D staff need to visit some NFL programs to watch and learn. Maybe a tweak will be in order next year.
 
I'm really not worried about Dino. He has a system that is proven. He needs time and patience and support from the fans.

I am worried about the Dome. Dino has a plan for the team but it appears more certain with each passing month that SU does not have a plan for our "decrepit, antiquated" stadium. Opposing coaches and fan bases are still negative recruiting against the Dome and the increasingly small football crowds that inhabit it. SU has done an absolutely abysmal job in rolling out specifics of the Dome renovation. I question whether Dino will still be around when renovations finally get underway.

Again, no doubts about Dino. Many doubts about SU's commitment to a 21st century Dome and game day experience.

We should have concrete info by XMAS...lots of moving parts with the new roof only plan and being done in 3 phases.
 
At least people still care. The day it's not the low t board because no one is posting is a much worse scenario. No matter how happy some of you would be without the "whiny b!tching"

This season will continue this way. We're going to beat Wake, then I would imagine Fuente and Foster have a field day with us. Then beat BC, and get destroyed by Clemson. Beat NC State, get destroyed by FSU. 5-6, with @Pitt for all the bowl marbles. We don't ever play well there, but that game is winnable.

That's how the schedule will go and that's how the board will go. Better get used to it.

It's not nearly as angry negative as it used to be.
 
At least people still care. The day it's not the low t board because no one is posting is a much worse scenario. No matter how happy some of you would be without the "whiny b!tching"

This season will continue this way. We're going to beat Wake, then I would imagine Fuente and Foster have a field day with us. Then beat BC, and get destroyed by Clemson. Beat NC State, get destroyed by FSU. 5-6, with @Pitt for all the bowl marbles. We don't ever play well there, but that game is winnable.

That's how the schedule will go and that's how the board will go. Better get used to it.

It's not nearly as angry negative as it used to be.

As far as how the season plays out, I agree 100%. S

Statistically, against FBS competition Pitt is one of only 4 teams with a worse passing defense (YPG) than us, against a weaker schedule. We will also be a better team, on offense and defense, by game 12. So I think that game is absolutely winnable.
 
It's not nearly as angry negative as it used to be.

The reason it's not as angry and negative as it used to be is because we now have a head coach in place who has a clue and a plan and clearly understands modern football and the era we are playing in. It's just a matter of waiting it out, get past these horrible schedules/OOC games we are stuck with, and waiting for him to bring in better players.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, it's just a very long tunnel. Which is why I think a lot of the anger and negativity has died down on this board
 
Tampa 2 is the BASE defense we don't run it every play.
Do we blitz, yes
Do we play other coverage, yes
Do we have different packages, yes
Go look back at the last 3-4 years of recruiting we used the template of undersized "faster" (not really) guys because we where told that's all we could get. Now our guys are undersized and get burnt a lot. We have CB's on play action whose first step is almost always towards the line of scrimmage. Our starting DE's are 245ish lbs vs. ND tackles that are 6'7" 310 lbs (SR) and 6'6" 320 lbs (JR) how the hell do you think our DE's can get past them? Oh maybe blitz up the middle NOPE 6'5" 310 lbs (JR) , 6'3" 310 lbs (SR), and 6'4" 310 lbs (JR). We where trying to climb a mountain on a moped. Clearly our lack of size, experience, depth, talent, and JR/SR is the fault of the Tamp 2 defense.
 
I just find it hilarious that when I used to talk about getting a better system on offense many people here said that talent mattered and system didn't, and now I'm reading conversations on the board about how bad our defensive system is.

It's funny.
 

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