This will be unpopular but...

[RF2044]

You see schtick, everyone else sees what he has done for the culture behind college basketball, and has become the face of college basketball for the last two decades. The amount of coaches that have suffered from cancer, and their spearhead being Dickie V. He doesn't just do so much for the game, but generating excitement and he is the voice of college basketball. Do I like him as an announcer? No, I don't really care for him. He's been relevant for a long time. I'm sure a casual fan like us don't know the whole 9 on Dick, but I guarantee you guys like Calhoun, Boeheim, Coach K, who know much better than you or I, would say that Vitale has done more for college ball than anyone alive right now.

I also think that comparisons to John Madden are very fair for Vitale.

More hyperbole. "Everyone else?" Doesn't seem that way, just from this thread alone. You yourself even indicate that you "don't really care for him" as an announcer in this post.

My mother has been a multiple time cancer survivor, spanning four decades and more than forty years, so I don't take that contribution lightly. You'll get no argument from me that Vitale has been THE driving force in CvC, and has done more in terms of spreading that message than anyone. No argument on that whatsoever--and hats off to him for stepping up every year and rallying donors to the cause.

I think that' s a separate discussion, however.

 

[Cuseman78]

+1

I get that he is enthusiastic, but I don't know how anybody can tolerate that schtick, with so many other really solid announcers manning the sidelines for college hoops these days. Thank heavens for the mute button.

This -- and he trumpets the same 4 or 5 programs every freakin' year. His act was tired 20 years ago. I did love him as a 12 year old though. Listening to Jay Bilas or Doug Gottlieb break down a team gets me WAAAY more excited than Dickie V

 

[rrlbees]

Dick Vitale does more for college basketball than anyone ever has, other than Naismith and (maybe) Wooden. I'd put Wooden and Vitale even, actually.

I wouldn't quite go that far, but people are forgetting his early years and remembering his later years when he became a Duke/ACC shill. People won't admit it, or don't remember, but Vitale had a LOT to do with the emergence of the BE and SU. And like someone said, he might be the most recognizable name in college basketball...love him or hate him. He's in the HOF for a reason and being a loudmouth Dookie, isn't the reason. I think some people have amnesia.

 

[RF2044]

Can you name people who have had bigger influences over a longer period of time than Dicky V?

There's a big difference between longevity--which I don't dispute Vitale has--and influence.

He's a cheerleader, one who came up with a [semi] engaging schtick that appeals to some and has worn on others over time. He reminds me a lot of Chris Berman--the face of ESPN's NFL coverage, considered brilliant in the late 80s / early 90s, still going strong but somewhat a caricature of himself at this point. :noidea:

Again, not sure why you are taking this so personally. I just don't agree that he is the MOST important factor in college hoops, and I reject the notion that college hoops would be any less popular if not for Vitale.

 

[Upstate]

More hyperbole. "Everyone else?" Doesn't seem that way, just from this thread alone. You yourself even indicate that you "don't really care for him" as an announcer in this post.

My mother has been a multiple time cancer survivor, spanning four decades and more than forty years, so I don't take that contribution lightly. You'll get no argument from me that Vitale has been THE driving force in CvC, and has done more in terms of spreading that message than anyone. No argument on that whatsoever--and hats off to him for stepping up every year and rallying donors to the cause.

I think that' s a separate discussion, however.

I look at it this way: There are few people that can become the face of an entire sport, few people that will be recognized more than anyone else, especially in college athletics with so much turnover in players/coaches. Vitale and Wooden are the only two that you can really make an argument for being "the face" of college basketball in the mass-media age. His involvement with players, coaches, the media, the fans, the schools (the conglomerate that MAKES college basketball exactly what it is)...its unmatched by anyone that has ever been involved in the game of college basketball hands down.

 

[RF2044]

I look at it this way: There are few people that can become the face of an entire sport, few people that will be recognized more than anyone else, especially in college athletics with so much turnover in players/coaches. Vitale and Wooden are the only two that you can really make an argument for being "the face" of college basketball in the mass-media age. His involvement with players, coaches, the media, the fans, the schools (the conglomerate that MAKES college basketball exactly what it is)...its unmatched by anyone that has ever been involved in the game of college basketball hands down.

My rebuttal is that your perspective on Vitale's importance / level of criticality is subjective rather than an objective statement of fact--as this thread clearly demonstrates. That's pretty much been my sticking point throughout this thread. I'm cool with agreeing to disagree on this particular topic.

LGO!!!

 

[DeGrozz]

"Whiny?"

My god, get over yourself. Just because I don't accept your BS statistics "quantifying" Vitale's importance doesn't invalidate my opinion.

Frankly, I've always thought that Vitale appeals to the lay fan--the ones who don't understand hoops, and get jazzed up by the fluff coverage he provides, talking about the most obvious topics. The last decade+ of Vitale reminds me a lot of the SNL spoof of Larry King's old USA Today Column, that was just stream of consciousness musings without much focus on the topic [or game] at hand. I'm not suggesting that you are not a discerning college hoops fan, but for my money there are [and always have been] many more college basketball announcers who have demonstrated more acumen than Dick Vitale.

By that same token, people are entitled to their divergent opinions of all of them. Some people loved Billy Packer; others hated him for being smarmy. Some love Brett Musberger [never resonated with that], while others don't. Even on this forum we see divergent perspectives on Bobby Knight, who is as knowledgeable an announcer as anyone ever has been. I'm a big fan of Bill Raftery, but in much the same way as I've expressed disdain for Vitale's schtick, many others don't enjoy Raftery's banter. To each their own.

If you like Vitale [and obviously you do], that's fine--you're entitled to your opinion. Just as I am entitled not to accept on face value your unsubstantiated opinion on Vitale's "measurable" importance to college basketball. And yes--I can name lots of people who have been more important / influential to the institution of college basketball--most of whom have been players and coaches--than Dick Vitale.

I understand that you include yourself in the elite class of fans who are above and beyond the average fan and can't bring yourself to like a layperson like Vitale, but that wasn't what I was posting about.

What I said is that Vitale has been very important to college basketball, while you have said:

I'm certainly willing to concede that Dick Vitale has contributed "a small amount to the popularity of college hoops."

And never did I say that Vitale is the world's greatest announcer. The funny thing is, you gave an "impassionate" response just because I said I get excited about college basketball when he starts appearing on ESPN. Who needs to get over themselves?

I even said that he has become a caricature of himself. I thought he was a very good announcer early in his career. He has, of course, become a little crazy. I still think he is a very important figure in the development of college basketball over the past three decades, and has been one of the most important, consistent figures in the game.

You also admit, that Vitale appeals to the 'lay fan', but you fail to realize that the vast majority of the fans in America are guys that aren't internet die-hards and are lay-fans. There's a reason why the biggest teams in the nation only pull 3-5K at their peak on an internet board while pulling 5X to 10X or more than that to their actual games.

Message board experts with thousands of posts, as important as they think they are, do not drive college basketball. It's the guys that just want to watch college hoops after a day at work or over the weekend with their buddies that make it popular. Vitale is a leader of that crowd. Vitale is on the Mt Rushmore of College basketball personalities and that is why he is so important to the game.

I love college hoops and he is a legend in college hoops. That's why I get excited when I hear him start cheering about the season starting and that's why Disney puts him in front of you, your wife, your family, your neighbors, and your co-workers when they want to get ratings.

To argue that he's not important is ridiculous.

 

[Upstate]

My rebuttal is that your perspective on Vitale's importance / level of criticality is subjective rather than an objective statement of fact--as this thread clearly demonstrates. That's pretty much been my sticking point throughout this thread. I'm cool with agreeing to disagree on this particular topic.

Of course you can't quantitatively measure any sort of "importance". This is an internet forum, it is for opinions. I'm just saying, if you think someone has been more important in college ball in the past few decades, I'd like to hear your opinion.

 

[RF2044]

I understand that you include yourself in the elite class of fans who are above and beyond the average fan and can't bring yourself to like a layperson like Vitale, but that wasn't what I was posting about.

What I said is that Vitale has been very important to college basketball, while you have said:

And never did I say that Vitale is the world's greatest announcer. The funny thing is, you gave an "impassionate" response just because I said I get excited about college basketball when he starts appearing on ESPN. Who needs to get over themselves?

I even said that he has become a caricature of himself. I thought he was a very good announcer early in his career. He has, of course, become a little crazy. I still think he is a very important figure in the development of college basketball over the past three decades, and has been one of the most important, consistent figures in the game.

You also admit, that Vitale appeals to the 'lay fan', but you fail to realize that the vast majority of the fans in America are guys that aren't internet die-hards and are lay-fans. There's a reason why the biggest teams in the nation only pull 3-5K at their peak on an internet board while pulling 5X to 10X or more than that to their actual games.

Message board experts with thousands of posts, as important as they think they are, do not drive college basketball. It's the guys that just want to watch college hoops after a day at work or over the weekend with their buddies that make it popular. Vitale is a leader of that crowd. Vitale is on the Mt Rushmore of College basketball personalities and that is why he is so important to the game.

I love college hoops and he is a legend in college hoops. That's why I get excited when I hear him start cheering about the season starting and that's why Disney puts him in front of you, your wife, your family, your neighbors, and your co-workers when they want to get ratings.

To argue that he's not important is ridiculous.

Oy--ing--vey.

You know what's even more ridiculous? Arguing several straw man points that don't remotely correlate to what my positions are.

I never said that Vitale isn't important; going back to one of your original posts, I'm disagreeing with your unsubstantiated opinion that college basketball wouldn't be "what it is today without him."

I also don't understand why you feel the need to be condescending and engage in personal attacks. You were the one who posted a bunch of made up statistics to justify your subjective perspective. Others in this thread agree with me--feel free to go jump down their throats for having the audacity to disagree with your message board wisdom, which from your perspective is inherently more ostensibly factual than what the thousands of internet posters you reference in your post who happen to disagree with you dare to espouse. Talk about elitist...

I don't begrudge that you like Vitale--I question your tastes, but to each their own. But I'm not alone in finding his presentation tiresome, and finding his value overstated. See: this thread. Vitale isn't even the face of college basketball on ESPN anymore--Bilas and co are.

His "importance" as an announcer is undisputed. His "importance" to the game itself is not an objective fact; it's a subjective opinion, just as what defines "importance" is being subjectively debated in this thread.

If you can't tolerate having your opinion questioned, avoid posting definitive absolutes in the future.

 

[DeGrozz]

Oy--*******--vey.

You know what's even more ridiculous? Arguing several straw man points that don't remotely correlate to what my positions are.

I never said that Vitale isn't important; going back to one of your original posts, I'm disagreeing with your unsubstantiated opinion that college basketball would be "what it is today without him."

I also don't understand why you feel the need to be condescending and engage in personal attacks. You were the one who posted a bunch of made up statistics to justify your subjective perspective. Others in this thread agree with me--feel free to go jump down their throats for having the audacity to disagree with your message board wisdom, which from your perspective is inherently more valid than what thousands of others who might disagree with you dare to espouse.

I don't begrudge that you like Vitale--I question your tastes, but to each their own. But I'm not alone in finding his presentation tiresome, and finding his value overstated. See: this thread. Vitale isn't even the face of college basketball on ESPN anymore--Bilas and co are.

His "importance" to the game is not an objective fact; it's a subjective opinion, just as what defines "importance" is being subjectively debated in this thread.

If you can't tolerate having your opinion questioned, avoid posting definitive absolutes in the future.

I am sorry if you think someone throwing out a hyperbole on an internet forum should be treated as a Rasmussen Poll. I honestly believe that if you asked the random person about the biggest names in college hoops, the vast majority would have Vitale near the top of the list. If you thought my figure of speech was a Harvard study, I can't help that.

And where were the personal attacks? "Whiny" vs. "Impassionate"? Nothing got very heated, sorry if you perceived it that way. I didn't take anything you said personally and I thought we both avoided being vulgar and demeaning. It's an internet message board, people can talk different sides of an opinion without hating each other -- that doesn't mean I hate you, we just have different opinions.

But going back to the point -- it's obvious you don't agree with me about Vitale's importance. I just believe that because Vitale has been one of the foremost faces in college basketball during its largest growth period he has helped shaped the game. You're free to disagree, but the people that call that shots in college basketball on a national stage have paid millions of dollars to state their feelings otherwise. You think he is too loud, too cliche, and too annoying. I get that. He's still in the HOF (fact - not a "straw man argument"), still on the worldwide leader of sports in his fourth decade (fact - not a "straw man argument"), and still one of the most referenced and quoted media personalities in his field. I believe if you asked most people in sports entertainment that would agree that he is college basketball's greatest ambassador and cheerleader. I do think he helped elevate the game to what it is today. Obviously neither of us will back down from our opinions.

 

[RF2044]

I am sorry if you think someone throwing out a hyperbole on an internet forum should be treated as a Rasmussen Poll. I honestly believe that if you asked the random person about the biggest names in college hoops, the vast majority would have Vitale near the top of the list. If you thought my figure of speech was a Harvard study, I can't help that.

And where were the personal attacks? "Whiny" vs. "Impassionate"? Nothing got very heated, sorry if you perceived it that way. I didn't take anything you said personally and I thought we both avoided being vulgar and demeaning. It's an internet message board, people can talk different sides of an opinion without hating each other -- that doesn't mean I hate you, we just have different opinions.

But going back to the point -- it's obvious you don't agree with me about Vitale's importance. I just believe that because Vitale has been one of the foremost faces in college basketball during its largest growth period he has helped shaped the game. You're free to disagree, but the people that call that shots in college basketball on a national stage have paid millions of dollars to state their feelings otherwise. You think he is too loud, too cliche, and too annoying. I get that. He's still in the HOF (fact - not a "straw man argument"), still on the worldwide leader of sports in his fourth decade (fact - not a "straw man argument"), and still one of the most referenced and quoted media personalities in his field. I believe if you asked most people in sports entertainment that would agree that he is college basketball's greatest ambassador and cheerleader. I do think he helped elevate the game to what it is today. Obviously neither of us will back down from our opinions, so I'll leave it at that.

Your last paragraph actually has a bunch of stuff that I agree with--although for the record, I never disputed that he's in the HOF [which inherently makes the way you referenced it a straw man argument], nor that he's been on TV for decades [ditto]. I'm not sure who is quoting / referencing him as you claim, but not worth debating. I also don't dispute that he may have "elevated" the game; I just don't think that college basketball wouldn't enjoy the unbridled popularity it does without him, or that it would somehow be lessened without his cheerleading. If you disagree--I'm cool with leaving it at that.

I agree 100% that Vitale is the game's most recognizable ambassador / cheerleader--I just think we differ on the relative importance of what that means vis a vis society's enjoyment of college hoops, or where March Madness stands in the pecking order of American sports.

And I'm a fan of your blog, BTW--so no hard feelings.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

I used to love Vitale when he was unbiased and excited about every game, now I feel he that someone in ACC land realized they can pay him a lot of money to speak at dinners and he will be free advertising! Now I cringe when I hear his voice!

 

[DoctorBombay]

Dick Vitale is the equivalent of a VUVUZELA in CBB.
His act has grown old, tired, and ultimately devoid of any value whatsoever. He's a caricature, a braying cartoon, & holds my personal distinction as the only TV personality I regularly mute without hesitation. To cite him as a "broadcaster" at this point, is to dishonor the broadcasting industry- something thats extremely hard to do.
I derive no joy whatsoever, whenever his face hits my TV screen. He's an annoying shill who should do the CBB audience a favor & retire, forthwith!
JMHO

 

[storange]

It's never college basketball season until I hear Dick Vitale's voice. Hearing him go crazy in an intro just got me pumped for this upcoming year.

He is college basketball's greatest fan.

I would rather listen to townie ramble on about how bad the hand soap is at public schools then listen to Dick vitale

 

[realorange]

I think that DeGrozz' original post is spot on for a lot of us. If you were a part of college basketball from the time Dickie V. hit the scene, then hearing his voice at the beginning of a new season is like opening a door to enjoyment you've been waiting for since last March.

Those who want to argue that what Dickie is today is not their cup of tea, should be for another thread. That's not germane to the original post.

 

[Orange87]

To say that Vitale was instrumental in the rise of the Big East would be inaccurate in my opinion. I was a freshman at SU in 1983 so I was there in the nascent years of the conference. Vitale was a lesser version of Howard Cosell then and over the years has devolved from that into what we see now - an over hyped, self-important shill for whatever program's coach he wants to kiss up to. Usually but not limited to Duke, UNC and UConn. Not surprisingly 3 of the most successful programs of the past 15 years.

He was never a fan of Syracuse, so why anyone on a Syracuse fan board shows him any love I do not know. Year in and year out the SU hoops team continued to prove him wrong in his predictions that they would lose this game or that game against the team Dickie V. had already declared far superior based on reputation alone.

I never liked him, still don't, marvel that anyone does and just hate the fact that sometimes I have to tolerate his incredibly stupid 'analysis' when I'm unlucky enough to want to watch a game that he happens to be working.

You want a legendary college hoops broadcaster that knows the game, is colorful, entertaining and gives due respect to the teams that deserve it and always has? Bill 'Onions' Raftery is your man.

 

[DoctorBombay]

To say that Vitale was instrumental in the rise of the Big East would be inaccurate in my opinion. I was a freshman at SU in 1983 so I was there in the nascent years of the conference. Vitale was a lesser version of Howard Cosell then and over the years has devolved from that into what we see now - an over hyped, self-important shill for whatever program's coach he wants to kiss up to. Usually but not limited to Duke, UNC and UConn. Not surprisingly 3 of the most successful programs of the past 15 years.

He was never a fan of Syracuse, so why anyone on a Syracuse fan board shows him any love I do not know. Year in and year out the SU hoops team continued to prove him wrong in his predictions that they would lose this game or that game against the team Dickie V. had already declared far superior based on reputation alone.

I never liked him, still don't, marvel that anyone does and just hate the fact that sometimes I have to tolerate his incredibly stupid 'analysis' when I'm unlucky enough to want to watch a game that he happens to be working.

You want a legendary college hoops broadcaster that knows the game, is colorful, entertaining and gives due respect to the teams that deserve it and always has? Bill 'Onions' Raftery is your man.

Spot-on!
Raftery can still do a broadcast with insightful analysis, throw in a coupla jokes here-&-there, but keeps his focus on THE GAME YOU'RE WATCHING!!!
Vitale goes into tangents about everything BUT the game, & then waits to shout his signature over-played schtick about "wham-bam-jams", & "PTP'ers", & "Diaper Dandies"!
Somewhere along the line he decided his act is more important than the game itself. I cringe whenever I see he's doing a broadcast. No other TV personality has that effect on me.