this year should be a total bummer but they're still making it fun

[Orangezoo]

I realize I am piling on here to others but the potential for next year's team if G returns is scary good. The big thing is if CMac comes back stronger and can finish downlow and Diagne can give us some low post production as well ( alongside whatever we can get from DC2) then our wings/guards should thrive. It certainly could resemble the Wes Johnson team except we have even more overall talent than that team minus the experience. Add in you have specialists as well. Buss as a defensive sub is a really nice thing to have. He has really been a pest for opponents at times this year. Kaleb will be the x factor IMHO. He needs to come back a more poised and aggressive PG to complement all the wings we have. If he can do that oh my...

 

[two3zone]

I realize I am piling on here to others but the potential for next year's team if G returns is scary good. The big thing is if CMac comes back stronger and can finish downlow and Diagne can give us some low post production as well ( alongside whatever we can get from DC2) then our wings/guards should thrive. It certainly could resemble the Wes Johnson team except we have even more overall talent than that team minus the experience. Add in you have specialists as well. Buss as a defensive sub is a really nice thing to have. He has really been a pest for opponents at times this year. Kaleb will be the x factor IMHO. He needs to come back a more poised and aggressive PG to complement all the wings we have. If he can do that oh my...

You think next years team has more overall talent than the Wes Johnson team? Are you high?

 

[Orangezoo]

You think next years team has more overall talent than the Wes Johnson team? Are you high?

Clearly you are mixing up talent with production. Next year's team has a lot of unknowns but when you look from a pure talent perspective it is not unreasonable at all.

That Team Had

Kris Joseph
Wes
Arinze
Rick J
Andy R

Scoop
Triche
Dash Riley

Aside from Wes and at times AO you have a bunch of good college players who sought out decent overseas Careers. Nearly all of them maximized their production and that team was full of guys much more mature than their opponents.

Next year you are looking at

Howard
Kaleb
Mike G
Trevor
CMAC
Diagne
Roberson
M. Richardson
DC2
T Lydon
BJ
Buss
Chino
Bryant?

From a talent perspective if it pans out as expected you have at least 3 legitimate NBA prospects on the roster in CMAC/Mike G/Malachi. If BJ really starts tearing it up and Roberson keeps improving.. then you have Howard I could go on. You have more overall talent top to bottom. So no I am not high today. This is a real possibility. Next year's team won't match the experience and the productivity is a TBD. You add Bryant to that mix in place of a G or CMAC and it replaces one NBA prospect with another.

So until the season starts and with what we are seeing from the sophomore class it is absolutely reasonable to say there is more "talent"

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Clearly you are mixing up talent with production. Next year's team has a lot of unknowns but when you look from a pure talent perspective it is not unreasonable at all.

That Team Had

Kris Joseph
Wes
Arinze
Rick J
Andy R

Scoop
Triche
Dash Riley

Aside from Wes and at times AO you have a bunch of good college players who sought out decent overseas Careers. Nearly all of them maximized their production and that team was full of guys much more mature than their opponents.

Next year you are looking at

Howard
Kaleb
Mike G
Trevor
CMAC
Diagne
Roberson
M. Richardson
DC2
T Lydon
BJ
Buss
Chino
Bryant?

From a talent perspective if it pans out as expected you have at least 3 legitimate NBA prospects on the roster in CMAC/Mike G/Malachi. If BJ really starts tearing it up and Roberson keeps improving.. then you have Howard I could go on. You have more overall talent top to bottom. So no I am not high today. This is a real possibility. Next year's team won't match the experience and the productivity is a TBD. You add Bryant to that mix in place of a G or CMAC and it replaces one NBA prospect with another.

So until the season starts and with what we are seeing from the sophomore class it is absolutely reasonable to say there is more "talent"

Don't forget that Southerland was at the end of the bench for that team too.

 

[Orangezoo]

Don't forget that Southerland was at the end of the bench for that team too.

Correct he was - and another good college player who really came on later in his career but wasn't a tried and true nba prospect.

 

[two3zone]

Clearly you are mixing up talent with production. Next year's team has a lot of unknowns but when you look from a pure talent perspective it is not unreasonable at all. That Team Had Kris Joseph Wes Arinze Rick J Andy R Scoop Triche Dash Riley Aside from Wes and at times AO you have a bunch of good college players who sought out decent overseas Careers. Nearly all of them maximized their production and that team was full of guys much more mature than their opponents. Next year you are looking at Howard Kaleb Mike G Trevor CMAC Diagne Roberson M. Richardson DC2 T Lydon BJ Buss Chino Bryant? From a talent perspective if it pans out as expected you have at least 3 legitimate NBA prospects on the roster in CMAC/Mike G/Malachi. If BJ really starts tearing it up and Roberson keeps improving.. then you have Howard I could go on. You have more overall talent top to bottom. So no I am not high today. This is a real possibility. Next year's team won't match the experience and the productivity is a TBD. You add Bryant to that mix in place of a G or CMAC and it replaces one NBA prospect with another. So until the season starts and with what we are seeing from the sophomore class it is absolutely reasonable to say there is more "talent"

I would take the 09-10 team ANY day of the week. There isn't one possible front court combination you could come up with for next year that I would take over AO, RJ, and Wes.

I don't get what you're saying about "what we are seeing from the sophomore class". I get it, they have shown flashes and I'm glad about that, but all three are inconsistent at best.

You name 14 guys in your post probably half don't see the court or have extremely limited minutes but you can't even name Southerland and Mookie on the 09-10 squad, Mookie ended his career hear without much good, but he was a "talent" coming in and you can't bet that every player coming in is going to pan out.

Dash Riley has more talent in his big toe than Chinoso does, not trying to be rude but he literally has no game.

 

[Scooch]

There was seemingly every reason to mentally check out of this season after the self-imposed sanctions were announced, both as players and fans. That the team has battled in every game since then, beating two highly ranked teams and losing 3 very tight games, is really remarkable.

It's a damn shame that this team can't play their way into the tourney because of the past sins of ex-players and the athletic department, but they should be very proud of what they've accomplished this year and I suspect our fan base will remember this team fondly.

 

[cto]

here are his stats compared to CJ and DNic as sophs. I think his potential can be found in these numbers:

View attachment 37375

If you double BJ's production to make his MPG more like CJ's sophomore year MPG, you get practically identical production. Let's hope he continues to develop as CJ did.

 

[SUintheVille]

The more I think about next year, the more excited I get about the offensive potential. G, Cooney and BJ return as shooters. Joseph and Roberson coming back more experienced and taking their game up a notch. McCullough returns.

Now, we don't know about Coleman or Bryant, how well McCullough bounces back, etc. -- but there are a lot of possibilities there for those two power spots. Throw in Richardson and Dieng, and all of the sudden we'll go from having worst depth ever this year to bountiful depth at all positions, with lots of multi-position versatility to boot.

I agree, but JB will probably still only go 7.5 deep when it matters. At least they'll be able to better guard against injury next year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Correct he was - and another good college player who really came on later in his career but wasn't a tried and true nba prospect.

Eh, he's cashed NBA paychecks. Not many and not very much, but he's earned money directly from the association. So have Rautins, Onuaku, Joseph and Wes obviously. Lots of fringe NBA players on that roster.

 

[two3zone]

Eh, he's cashed NBA paychecks. Not many and not very much, but he's earned money directly from the association. So have Rautins, Onuaku, Joseph and Wes obviously. Lots of fringe NBA players on that roster.

I've watched this 100 times. Wish somebody would give him a shot.

 

[kirbivore]

The Wes Johnson team was probably the most complete team we've ever had. As good as those teams in the 80s were, they took off a lot of plays on the defensive end.

That's why the 1989 lost too many games relative to their talent level.

 

[kirbivore]

Arinze doesn't get hurt and I still maintain we win the national championship, or at the very least make the Final Four. Butler made the finals and lost by 3 to Duke, and we led by 4 with 3 1/2 minutes left with the ball before Scoop and Rautins forgot their 1st Team All-American was on the team. Man I miss that team...

Also JB made an ill advised decision to go with stall ball

 

[Orangezoo]

I would take the 09-10 team ANY day of the week. There isn't one possible front court combination you could come up with for next year that I would take over AO, RJ, and Wes.

I don't get what you're saying about "what we are seeing from the sophomore class". I get it, they have shown flashes and I'm glad about that, but all three are inconsistent at best.

You name 14 guys in your post probably half don't see the court or have extremely limited minutes but you can't even name Southerland and Mookie on the 09-10 squad, Mookie ended his career hear without much good, but he was a "talent" coming in and you can't bet that every player coming in is going to pan out.

Dash Riley has more talent in his big toe than Chinoso does, not trying to be rude but he literally has no game.

Look you are a serious pessimist with this soph class i get it. But there are signs beyond the production in recent games. Confidence and court awareness to boot. And you have zero clue who gets minutes next year vs who doesn't. No need to be so defensive of the 09-10 squad as they were flat out awesome. Plenty of years we have had talent not perform. Next year who knows but there are a lot of promising signs with the core of guys this year who will set the tone next year. Add in one of our best classes on paper in a long time and the talent is there. Dont let one rough season cloud how good we have been the past 6 yrs.

 

[two3zone]

Look you are a serious pessimist with this soph class i get it. But there are signs beyond the production in recent games. Confidence and court awareness to boot. And you have zero clue who gets minutes next year vs who doesn't. No need to be so defensive of the 09-10 squad as they were flat out awesome. Plenty of years we have had talent not perform. Next year who knows but there are a lot of promising signs with the core of guys this year who will set the tone next year. Add in one of our best classes on paper in a long time and the talent is there. Dont let one rough season cloud how good we have been the past 6 yrs.

Don't get me wrong, I see the signs as well. I've seen Roberson look like Rodman then not show up for two games. I've seen BJ shoot like Kobe then disappear for 20 games, I've seen Buss hit a bunch of threes in an exhibition game then seemingly not make one the rest of the year. Chino sets a pick and people are saying he has game.

The class is ok, but it's not the caliber that we've bad and you can't deny the production (outside of Ennis last year) has been extremely minimal. While there are signs that they can get better they need to be consistent something not one of them has been able to do here, except maybe Buss he is a pretty consistently bad offensive player.

I don't think there is one person on this site that would say they expected these guys to play like this by the end of their sophomore year. I think all of us had higher expectations for this class considering the rankings and skill sets of the players. They just have under performed.

 

[bevosu]

Buss is not a consistently bad offensive player. He does a lot of good things on the offensive end...he just can't seem to hit an open outside shot.

The 09/10 team was the smartest offensive team we've had...maybe ever. The way they passed (shared) and handled the ball. A joy to watch.

 

[two3zone]

Buss is not a consistently bad offensive player. He does a lot of good things on the offensive end...he just can't seem to hit an open outside shot.

If it's not a dunk or layup it's not going in.

 

[SUFan44]

Also JB made an ill advised decision to go with stall ball

If you'd like to pin a four-point loss to a National Runner-Up on a coach that is missing his most effective low-post scorer and a fifth-year starter, be my guest. But you'll be in the minority, I guarantee that. Were the 20 turnovers the team had his fault, too?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Don't get me wrong, I see the signs as well. I've seen Roberson look like Rodman then not show up for two games. I've seen BJ shoot like Kobe then disappear for 20 games, I've seen Buss hit a bunch of threes in an exhibition game then seemingly not make one the rest of the year. Chino sets a pick and people are saying he has game.

The class is ok, but it's not the caliber that we've bad and you can't deny the production (outside of Ennis last year) has been extremely minimal. While there are signs that they can get better they need to be consistent something not one of them has been able to do here, except maybe Buss he is a pretty consistently bad offensive player.

I don't think there is one person on this site that would say they expected these guys to play like this by the end of their sophomore year. I think all of us had higher expectations for this class considering the rankings and skill sets of the players. They just have under performed.

So you've seen BJ shoot like Kobe and then also shoot like Kobe?

 

[kirbivore]

If you'd like to pin a four-point loss to a National Runner-Up on a coach that is missing his most effective low-post scorer and a fifth-year starter, be my guest. But you'll be in the minority, I guarantee that. Were the 20 turnovers the team had his fault, too?

It wasn't the only reason. I don't hate stall ball, it was just not right for that game. They scratched and clawed to get back in that game and had Butler on the ropes. The move was to attack and finish them.